Management & Marketing

The Smart Business Revolution Podcast

John Corcoran | Similar to James Altucher, Art of Charm, Art of Manliness

Episodes

Josh Turner | How to Leverage LinkedIn to Grow Your Leads
2017-09-21 04:57:46 UTC
Josh Turner | How to Leverage LinkedIn to Grow Your Leads

Josh Turner Smart Business Revolution John Corcoran

rsz_smart_business_revolution_podcast_artwork_redJosh Turner is the Founder and CEO of LinkedSelling and the Developer of Connect 365; an email automation software that helps you re-target lost leads, touch base with future leads, and even follow-up on failed payments.

In this episode, we also talk about:

  • Josh’s Journey of Becoming a LinkedIn Guru
  • How Josh Used a LinkedIn Group to Help Build Authority in the Beginning
  • Don’t Be A “Leg Humper”
  • Is LinkedIn’s Paid Membership, Sales Navigator, Worth It?
  • Josh’s Experience Developing the Connect 365 Software
  • The Main Mistake People Make When Developing Software
  • How Josh Uses Connect 365 to Re-target Lost LinkedIn Leads
  • Josh’s Mentors Throughout the Evolution of His Professional Life
  • Who Josh Thanks for His Success

Sponsor: Rise25

This episode is sponsored today by Rise25, the training company founded by my business partner, Dr. Jeremy Weisz and myself with the mission of helping business owners from professional services get away from “trading hours for dollars” and shift from “one to one” client work to “one to many” programs and offers.

We are building a community of entrepreneurs who realize the world and economy is changing and who want to work smarter than trading time for money so they can scale up their business and spend time doing what they love.

Check out Rise25 to learn more about our retreats and training programs.

Right Click here to download the MP3

Click here to subscribe via iTunes

Advertise on the Smart Business

The post Josh Turner | How to Leverage LinkedIn to Grow Your Leads appeared first on Smart Business Revolution.

Daniel Jordi | How to Get Paid to Throw Executive Roundtables (Including at Tesla!)
2017-09-21 04:57:46 UTC
Daniel Jordi | How to Get Paid to Throw Executive Roundtables (Including at Tesla!)

Daniel Jordi Smart Business Revolution John Corcoran

rsz_smart_business_revolution_podcast_artwork_redDaniel Jordi is Founder and Managing Director of LeadersBridge; and has enabled more than 20 million Swiss francs by connecting people who belong together via private, invite-only gatherings and executive roundtables.

In this week’s episode, we’re talking about how he turned his hobby into a business and how you can follow his same model.

In this episode, we also talk about:

  • How Daniel Started Creating Private Gatherings of Influential People
  • Daniel’s Tactics for Getting Influential People to Attend His Gatherings
  • How Daniel Kept His Costs Down in the Beginning
  • When Daniel Transitioned into Monetizing His Hobby of Making Connections
  • A Breakdown of Daniel’s Typical Executive Roundtable
  • Daniel’s Method for Monetizing Executive Roundtables Without Charging Attendees
  • How Daniel Manages to Hold His Executive Roundtables at Tesla Headquarters
  • Daniel’s New Peer-to-Peer Network
  • Who Does Daniel Thank for His Success?

Sponsor: Rise25

This episode is sponsored today by Rise25, the training company founded by my business partner, Dr. Jeremy Weisz and myself with the mission of helping business owners from professional services get away from “trading hours for dollars” and shift from “one to one” client work to “one to many” programs and offers.

We are building a community of entrepreneurs who realize the world and economy is changing and who want to work smarter than trading time for money so they can scale up their business and spend time doing what they love.

Check out Rise25 to learn more about our retreats and training programs.

Right Click here to download the MP3

Click here to subscribe via iTunes

Advertise on the Smart Business

The post Daniel Jordi | How to Get Paid to Throw Executive Roundtables (Including at Tesla!) appeared first on Smart Business Revolution.

Daniel DiPiazza | How to Live an Epic Life
2017-09-21 04:57:46 UTC
Daniel DiPiazza | How to Live an Epic Life

Daniel DiPiazza Smart Business Revolution John Corcoran

rsz_smart_business_revolution_podcast_artwork_redDaniel DiPiazza is an author, CEO and Founder of Rich20Something, and he grew three separate businesses into the six figures. His writings have been featured in Time, Yahoo Business, Fortune, Entrepreneur, and more.

I’ve known Daniel for a while now and I am always amazed at the new perspectives he brings to the entrepreneurial table.

In this episode, we also talk about:

  • What Working in Food Service Taught Daniel About Entrepreneurship
  • What Made Daniel So Determined to Be Successful?
  • How Daniel Used Automation Systems to Gain More Time to Grow His Audience
  • How Daniel Used Instagram to Rapidly Grow His Audience
  • The Importance of Getting Your Various Platform Follows into an Email List
  • What Daniel Would Do First If He Had to Build an Audience from Scratch
  • Why Daniel Cut His Email List in Half and Changed How He Markets His Products
  • Who Daniel Thanks for His Success

Sponsor: Rise25

This episode is sponsored today by Rise25, the training company founded by my business partner, Dr. Jeremy Weisz and myself with the mission of helping business owners from professional services get away from “trading hours for dollars” and shift from “one to one” client work to “one to many” programs and offers.

We are building a community of entrepreneurs who realize the world and economy is changing and who want to work smarter than trading time for money so they can scale up their business and spend time doing what they love.

Check out Rise25 to learn more about our retreats and training programs.

Right Click here to download the MP3

Click here to subscribe via iTunes

Advertise on the Smart Business

The post Daniel DiPiazza | How to Live an Epic Life appeared first on Smart Business Revolution.

Gary Guseinov | From B.A. in Psychology to 1.8 Million Users
2017-09-21 04:57:46 UTC
Gary Guseinov | From B.A. in Psychology to 1.8 Million Users

Gary Guseinov Smart Business Revolution John Corcoran

rsz_smart_business_revolution_podcast_artwork_redGary Guseinov is a former mentor for 500 Startups, has started and invested in several companies, and is currently the Founder of Business Hangouts; a webinar platform that currently has 1.8 million users.

In this episode, we also talk about:

  • What is a Webinar?
  • How Different Businesses Can Use Webinars
  • How Gary Went from a B.A. in Psychology to What He Does Now
  • Gary’s Experience Being a Mentor at 500 Startups
  • Why Gary Has Chosen to Focus on Webinars
  • Why You Shouldn’t Let Intimidation Stop You from Doing Webinars
  • Where are Webinars Headed in the Future?
  • Why Webinars Have a Higher Conversion Rate Than Other Forms of Marketing
  • Who Gary Thanks for His Success

Sponsor: Rise25

This episode is sponsored today by Rise25, the training company founded by my business partner, Dr. Jeremy Weisz and myself with the mission of helping business owners from professional services get away from “trading hours for dollars” and shift from “one to one” client work to “one to many” programs and offers.

We are building a community of entrepreneurs who realize the world and economy is changing and who want to work smarter than trading time for money so they can scale up their business and spend time doing what they love.

Check out Rise25 to learn more about our retreats and training programs.

Right Click here to download the MP3

Click here to subscribe via iTunes

Advertise on the Smart Business

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Kim Walsh Phillips | How to Get 10,000 Facebook Fans in 72 Hours for Under $100
2017-09-21 04:57:46 UTC
Kim Walsh Phillips | How to Get 10,000 Facebook Fans in 72 Hours for Under $100

Kim Walsh Phillips Smart Business Revolution John Corcoran

rsz_smart_business_revolution_podcast_artwork_redKim Walsh Phillips is an award-winning speaker, author, and the CEO of Elite Digital Group. Kim is responsible for putting over a billion dollars in her clients’ pockets with direct response social media marketing and she is sharing some of her best tactics with you today.

In this episode, we also talk about:

  • What is Direct Response Social Media Marketing?
  • How Kim Gets Her Clients Real Results Using a Juicy Carrot
  • Which Should Come First: Building an Email List or Building a Social Media Following?
  • What Social Media Platform Should You Be on First?
  • How Facebook’s Data Mining Partnerships Help You Target Your Ideal Customer
  • How to Monetize Your Social Media Leads
  • Kim’s Tactics for Adding 10,000 Facebook Page Fans in Under 72 Hours for Less Than $100
  • Who Kim Thanks for Her Success

Sponsor: Rise25

This episode is sponsored today by Rise25, the training company founded by my business partner, Dr. Jeremy Weisz and myself with the mission of helping business owners from professional services get away from “trading hours for dollars” and shift from “one to one” client work to “one to many” programs and offers.

We are building a community of entrepreneurs who realize the world and economy is changing and who want to work smarter than trading time for money so they can scale up their business and spend time doing what they love.

Check out Rise25 to learn more about our retreats and training programs.

Right Click here to download the MP3

Click here to subscribe via iTunes

Advertise on the Smart Business

The post Kim Walsh Phillips | How to Get 10,000 Facebook Fans in 72 Hours for Under $100 appeared first on Smart Business Revolution.

Jesse Krieger | How to Publish Your Book
2017-09-21 04:57:46 UTC
Jesse Krieger | How to Publish Your Book

Jesse Krieger Smart Business Revolution John Corcoran

rsz_smart_business_revolution_podcast_artwork_redJesse Krieger has toured the US in a rock band, was flown all around the world as a dating coach, traveled to and lived in around 25 countries, and has started and sold multiple businesses. Currently, he’s the Founder of Lifestyle Entrepreneurs Press who helps other people get their books published and, today, we’re diving into the power of publishing a book.

In this episode, we also talk about:

  • The First Step to Becoming a Published Author
  • Tools for Creating the Framework of Your Book
  • Should You Write a Book If You Don’t Have Room for New Clients?
  • Should You Give Your Book Away for Free?
  • What to Expect if You Decide to Self-Publish
  • Why You Should Produce Your Book in Kindle, Paperback, and Audio Formats
  • The Importance of Building a Community of Your Ideal Clients
  • Why’s Jesse’s Excited About the Current State of Self-Publishing
  • Should You Put All Your Eggs in Amazon’s Basket?

Sponsor: Rise25

This episode is sponsored today by Rise25, the training company founded by my business partner, Dr. Jeremy Weisz and myself with the mission of helping business owners from professional services get away from “trading hours for dollars” and shift from “one to one” client work to “one to many” programs and offers.

We are building a community of entrepreneurs who realize the world and economy is changing and who want to work smarter than trading time for money so they can scale up their business and spend time doing what they love.

Check out Rise25 to learn more about our retreats and training programs.

Right Click here to download the MP3

Click here to subscribe via iTunes

Advertise on the Smart Business

The post Jesse Krieger | How to Publish Your Book appeared first on Smart Business Revolution.

Tony Cappaert | How to Build a Team
2017-09-21 04:57:46 UTC
Tony Cappaert | How to Build a Team

Tony Cappaert Smart Business Revolution John Corcoran

rsz_smart_business_revolution_podcast_artwork_redTony Cappaert is the Co-Founder and C.O.O. of Contactually (affiliate link); which is a fast-growing relationship management platform and personally one of my favorite software tools. While we’re, of course, going to talk about Contactually today, we also dig into some tips and tactics for how to properly nurture your network.

In this episode, we also talk about:

  • The Origins of Contactually
  • Tony’s Method for Getting the Attention of Someone He Wants to Learn From
  • Tony’s Tactics for Nurturing Relationships While Maintaining a Busy Schedule
  • How Tony Finds Content to Share with Those in His Network
  • Contactually’s Features for Building and Nurturing Relationships
  • How Tony Manages Multiple Responsibilities Within His Company and Being a New Dad
  • Tony’s Advice for Deciding What Aspects of Your Business You Should Focus On
  • Tony’s Process for Handling Setbacks While Growing a Startup
  • Who Tony Thanks for His Success

Sponsor: Rise25

This episode is sponsored today by Rise25, the training company founded by my business partner, Dr. Jeremy Weisz and myself with the mission of helping business owners from professional services get away from “trading hours for dollars” and shift from “one to one” client work to “one to many” programs and offers.

We are building a community of entrepreneurs who realize the world and economy is changing and who want to work smarter than trading time for money so they can scale up their business and spend time doing what they love.

Check out Rise25 to learn more about our retreats and training programs.

Right Click here to download the MP3

Click here to subscribe via iTunes

Advertise on the Smart Business

The post Tony Cappaert | How to Build a Team appeared first on Smart Business Revolution.

Joel Erway | How to Crush It with Webinars
2017-09-21 04:57:46 UTC
Joel Erway | How to Crush It with Webinars

Joel Erway Smart Business Revolution John Corcoran

rsz_smart_business_revolution_podcast_artwork_redJoel Erway is the Founder of The Webinar Agency and, after a stint as a mechanical engineer, found himself falling in love with sales. He took a leap of faith and hired Russell Brunson to help him transition into entrepreneurship. He now helps other entrepreneurs development 7-figure webinars.

In this episode, we also talk about:

  • What is a Webinar?
  • Joel Journey from Mechanical Engineer to Online Entrepreneur
  • How Joel Discovered the Power of Webinars
  • The Main Mistake Entrepreneurs Make When Doing a Webinar
  • Joel’s Tips for Getting People to Your Webinar
  • How to Find a Balance Between Educating and Pitching During Your Webinar
  • What Type of Closing Method Does Joel Recommend for Webinars?
  • The Importance of Cultivating Curiosity, Anticipation, and Excitement
  • The Ideal Webinar Follow-Up Sequence
  • The Difference Between Live and Evergreen Webinars
  • Joel’s Software Recommendations for Hosting Webinars
  • The Future of Webinars

Sponsor: Rise25

This episode is sponsored today by Rise25, the training company founded by my business partner, Dr. Jeremy Weisz and myself with the mission of helping business owners from professional services get away from “trading hours for dollars” and shift from “one to one” client work to “one to many” programs and offers.

We are building a community of entrepreneurs who realize the world and economy is changing and who want to work smarter than trading time for money so they can scale up their business and spend time doing what they love.

Check out Rise25 to learn more about our retreats and training programs.

Right Click here to download the MP3

Click here to subscribe via iTunes

Advertise on the Smart Business

The post Joel Erway | How to Crush It with Webinars appeared first on Smart Business Revolution.

Heather Ann Havenwood | How to Become a Sexy Boss™
2017-09-21 04:57:46 UTC
Heather Ann Havenwood | How to Become a Sexy Boss™

Heather Havenwood Smart Business Revolution John Corcoran

rsz_smart_business_revolution_podcast_artwork_redHeather Ann Havenwood, is the founder of Sexy Boss™, Inc. and the author of a book by the same name. She’s built three companies from zero to a million dollars, has experienced bankruptcy as the result of betrayal by a business partner, and has bounced back to now helping other entrepreneurs turn their businesses into million dollar ones.

In this episode, we also talk about:

  • How Heather Built a Million Dollar Real Estate Company
  • Why Heather Had to File for Bankruptcy
  • Heather’s Journey of Coming Back After Losing Everything
  • How Heather Built a Million Dollar Information Marketing Company
  • The Inspiration Behind Heather’s Book Geared Towards Female Entrepreneurs
  • Heather’s Advice for “Beating the Big Boys” Amid Rampant Sexism
  • The Importance of Mindset in the Face of Adversity in Business
  • The Significance of Surrounding Yourself with Like-Minded People
  • Why Every Entrepreneur Needs to Share Their Personal Story

Sponsor: Rise25

This episode is sponsored today by Rise25, the training company founded by my business partner, Dr. Jeremy Weisz and myself with the mission of helping business owners from professional services get away from “trading hours for dollars” and shift from “one to one” client work to “one to many” programs and offers.

We are building a community of entrepreneurs who realize the world and economy is changing and who want to work smarter than trading time for money so they can scale up their business and spend time doing what they love.

Check out Rise25 to learn more about our retreats and training programs.

Right Click here to download the MP3

Click here to subscribe via iTunes

Advertise on the Smart Business

The post Heather Ann Havenwood | How to Become a Sexy Boss™ appeared first on Smart Business Revolution.

Jeff Goins | Real Artists Don’t Starve
2017-09-21 04:57:46 UTC
Jeff Goins | Real Artists Don’t Starve

Jeff Goins Smart Business Revolution John Corcoran

rsz_smart_business_revolution_podcast_artwork_redJeff Goins, is the best-selling author of five books and a previous guest on the show. Today, he’s here to talk about his latest book, Real Artists Don’t Starve, and it’s a conversation that I personally found eye-opening and incredibly interesting.

In this episode, we also talk about:

  • Why Jeff Decided to Write His Latest Book, Real Artists Don’t Starve
  • The Story of Michelangelo’s Secret Fortune
  • Are Artists Artists Actually Starving in Today’s Market?
  • Why Jeff Thinks Good Artists Should Steal
  • Why Every Artist Should Be an Apprentice
  • How Collaboration Can Make All the Difference
  • The Importance of Owning Your Work
  • The Man Jeff Thanks for His Creative Side

Sponsor: Rise25

This episode is sponsored today by Rise25, the training company founded by my business partner, Dr. Jeremy Weisz and myself with the mission of helping business owners from professional services get away from “trading hours for dollars” and shift from “one to one” client work to “one to many” programs and offers.

We are building a community of entrepreneurs who realize the world and economy is changing and who want to work smarter than trading time for money so they can scale up their business and spend time doing what they love.

Check out Rise25 to learn more about our retreats and training programs.

Right Click here to download the MP3

Click here to subscribe via iTunes

Advertise on the Smart Business

The post Jeff Goins | Real Artists Don’t Starve appeared first on Smart Business Revolution.

Felena Hanson | How 3 Layoffs Led to a Chain of Spa-Inspired Co-Working Spaces for Women Business Owners
2017-09-21 04:57:46 UTC
Felena Hanson | How 3 Layoffs Led to a Chain of Spa-Inspired Co-Working Spaces for Women Business Owners

Felena Hanson Smart Business Revolution John Corcoran

rsz_smart_business_revolution_podcast_artwork_redFelena Hanson found herself having been laid off three different times by the age of 30 and decided to make a change. She went on to found Hera Hub, a spa-inspired female-focused co-working space that now has multiple locations in multiple countries and we’re going to talk about that journey today.

In this episode, we also talk about:

  • Why Felena Decided to Start Spa-Inspired Co-Working Spaces for Women
  • Why Felena Thinks Women Should “Lean Out”
  • Is Obtaining Work/Life Balance a Realistic Goal?
  • Felena’s Advice for Women Who Want to Become an Entrepreneur
  • The Importance of Not Waiting for the Perfect Moment to Start Your Business
  • Should You Start a Passion-Based Business?
  • Who Felena Thanks for Her Success

Sponsor: Rise25

This episode is sponsored today by Rise25, the training company founded by my business partner, Dr. Jeremy Weisz and myself with the mission of helping business owners from professional services get away from “trading hours for dollars” and shift from “one to one” client work to “one to many” programs and offers.

We are building a community of entrepreneurs who realize the world and economy is changing and who want to work smarter than trading time for money so they can scale up their business and spend time doing what they love.

Check out Rise25 to learn more about our retreats and training programs.

Right Click here to download the MP3

Click here to subscribe via iTunes

Advertise on the Smart Business

The post Felena Hanson | How 3 Layoffs Led to a Chain of Spa-Inspired Co-Working Spaces for Women Business Owners appeared first on Smart Business Revolution.

Amanda Goldman-Petri | How to Market Like a Nerd
2017-09-21 04:57:46 UTC
Amanda Goldman-Petri | How to Market Like a Nerd

Amanda Goldman-Petri Smart Business Revolution John Corcoran

rsz_smart_business_revolution_podcast_artwork_redAmanda Goldman-Petri, founder of Market Like a Nerd, is on the show today to discuss her incredible story that involves experiencing some dark, depressing days to launching multiple six+ figure businesses.

In this episode, we also talk about:

  • How Amanda Shifted from a Victim Mentality to a Positive Mentality
  • When Amanda Learned Hustle Will Only Take You So Far
  • Understanding the Concept of Working Smarter
  • When is Your Business Ready for Paid Traffic?
  • How Amanda Started Working Online in Social Media Marketing
  • Amanda’s Experience with a $50,000 Mastermind Group
  • When Amanda Decided She Wanted to Coach Others
  • Why Amanda Has Declared a War on Hustle
  • What is a Cash Injection Campaign and How Can It Benefit Your Business?
  • Who Amanda Thanks for Her Success

Sponsor: Rise25

This episode is sponsored today by Rise25, the training company founded by my business partner, Dr. Jeremy Weisz and myself with the mission of helping business owners from professional services get away from “trading hours for dollars” and shift from “one to one” client work to “one to many” programs and offers.

We are building a community of entrepreneurs who realize the world and economy is changing and who want to work smarter than trading time for money so they can scale up their business and spend time doing what they love.

Check out Rise25 to learn more about our retreats and training programs.

Right Click here to download the MP3

Click here to subscribe via iTunes

Advertise on the Smart Business

The post Amanda Goldman-Petri | How to Market Like a Nerd appeared first on Smart Business Revolution.

Roland Frasier | How to Go from Attorney for Tony Robbins to Deal Maker Extraordinaire
2017-09-21 04:57:46 UTC
Roland Frasier | How to Go from Attorney for Tony Robbins to Deal Maker Extraordinaire

Roland Frasier Smart Business Revolution John Corcoran 2

rsz_smart_business_revolution_podcast_artwork_redRoland Frasier, like me, is a recovering attorney turned entrepreneur. However, even as an attorney, Roland was a little unconventional. Instead of charging his clients by the hour, he liked to charge flat-rate fees and create business deals and partnerships with them.

This led Roland into businesses in an incredibly wide variety of fields and today he’s one of the owners of DigitalMarketer; which is one of the largest and most respected online marketing companies.

In this episode, we also talk about:

  • How Roland Started Selling Real Estate at 18 Years Old
  • Why Roland Went to Law School if He Didn’t Intend to be a Lawyer
  • What Working with Tony Robbins Taught Roland About Networking
  • How Roland Got Involved with Direct Marketing
  • Roland’s Tips for Being Respected by Your Peers
  • Roland’s Unusual Business Model for His Direct Marketing Business
  • Roland’s Method of Connecting with People He’s Interested in Working with
  • Why Roland’s Never Had a Bad Business Partnership
  • Who Roland Thanks for His Success

Sponsor: Rise25

This episode is sponsored today by Rise25 Inner Circle… Rise25 is an exclusive, application-only accountability and group coaching program for professional services entrepreneurs running 6, 7 and 8 figure businesses who want to scale up, and shift from “one to one” client work to “one to many.”

Rise25 Inner Circle was founded by my business partner, Dr. Jeremy Weisz and myself… every few months, at 4-star luxury properties, we bring together like-minded entrepreneurs who come from client-serving backgrounds and they want to make the shift from chasing clients to having large groups of clients and buyers chasing them.

What makes these events different from any other events you’ve seen for entrepreneurs is we bring in our “Sherpas” – 8 and 9 figure entrepreneurs who are there the full time, in the retreat room providing feedback. Think of the Sharks from “Shark Tank” except they only give out advice rather than investment.

Then we back up those live in-person retreats with ongoing, regular accountability and group coaching – so you are guaranteed to turn inspiration into action.

Check out Rise25 to learn more

Right Click here to download the MP3

Click here to subscribe via iTunes

Advertise on the Smart Business

The post Roland Frasier | How to Go from Attorney for Tony Robbins to Deal Maker Extraordinaire appeared first on Smart Business Revolution.

Gene Hammett | How to Get More Speaking Gigs
2017-09-21 04:57:46 UTC
Gene Hammett | How to Get More Speaking Gigs

Gene Hammett Smart Business Revolution John Corcoran

rsz_smart_business_revolution_podcast_artwork_redGene Hammett is a coach, speaker, and podcast host. He’s also run a multi-million dollar company, filed bankruptcy, lost everything, and bounced back with a powerful story to tell. Today, talk about those experiences and the lessons he learned from them.

In this episode, we also talk about:

  • Why Gene Felt Compelled to Go into Sales
  • How the Tragic Events on 9/11 Changed Gene’s Career Path
  • Gene’s Strategy for Managing High-Stakes Projects like the Superbowl and the Olympics
  • Why Gene Believes Relationships are the Backbone of Everything He Does
  • The Lesson Gene Learned After Losing $3 Million in One Day
  • How a Coach Helped Gene Through His Business and Personal Struggles
  • What Gene Hopes People Take Away from His Story
  • Who Gene Thanks for His Success

Sponsor: Rise25

This episode is sponsored today by Rise25 Inner Circle… Rise25 is an exclusive, application-only accountability and group coaching program for professional services entrepreneurs running 6, 7 and 8 figure businesses who want to scale up, and shift from “one to one” client work to “one to many.”

Rise25 Inner Circle was founded by my business partner, Dr. Jeremy Weisz and myself… every few months, at 4-star luxury properties, we bring together like-minded entrepreneurs who come from client-serving backgrounds and they want to make the shift from chasing clients to having large groups of clients and buyers chasing them.

What makes these events different from any other events you’ve seen for entrepreneurs is we bring in our “Sherpas” – 8 and 9 figure entrepreneurs who are there the full time, in the retreat room providing feedback. Think of the Sharks from “Shark Tank” except they only give out advice rather than investment.

Then we back up those live in-person retreats with ongoing, regular accountability and group coaching – so you are guaranteed to turn inspiration into action.

Check out Rise25 to learn more

Right Click here to download the MP3

Click here to subscribe via iTunes

Advertise on the Smart Business

The post Gene Hammett | How to Get More Speaking Gigs appeared first on Smart Business Revolution.

Brennan Dunn | How to Become a Thriving Freelancer
2017-09-21 04:57:46 UTC
Brennan Dunn | How to Become a Thriving Freelancer

Brennan Dunn Smart Business Revolution John Corcoran

rsz_smart_business_revolution_podcast_artwork_redBrennan Dunn‘s story starts out like a lot other entrepreneurs; working in corporate while freelancing on the side. However, Brennan was able to transition from being a freelancer to building multiple businesses and becoming an expert in the freelancing community.

In this episode, we also talk about:

  • How a Pregnancy Changed Brennan’s Career
  • The Mistakes Brennan Made While Growing Growing His Business
  • Why Brennan Changed His Business Model and Lowered His Rates
  • Brennan’s Shift to Using Live Events and Webinars for Leads
  • How Brennan Limited His Chances of Competition
  • Who Brennan Thanks for His Success

Sponsor: Rise25

This episode is sponsored today by Rise25 Inner Circle… Rise25 is an exclusive, application-only accountability and group coaching program for professional services entrepreneurs running 6, 7 and 8 figure businesses who want to scale up, and shift from “one to one” client work to “one to many.”

Rise25 Inner Circle was founded by my business partner, Dr. Jeremy Weisz and myself… every few months, at 4-star luxury properties, we bring together like-minded entrepreneurs who come from client-serving backgrounds and they want to make the shift from chasing clients to having large groups of clients and buyers chasing them.

What makes these events different from any other events you’ve seen for entrepreneurs is we bring in our “Sherpas” – 8 and 9 figure entrepreneurs who are there the full time, in the retreat room providing feedback. Think of the Sharks from “Shark Tank” except they only give out advice rather than investment.

Then we back up those live in-person retreats with ongoing, regular accountability and group coaching – so you are guaranteed to turn inspiration into action.

Check out Rise25 to learn more

Right Click here to download the MP3

Click here to subscribe via iTunes

Advertise on the Smart Business

The post Brennan Dunn | How to Become a Thriving Freelancer appeared first on Smart Business Revolution.

Joe Fairless | How to Raise $100M in Private Funding in a First-Time Real Estate Deal
2017-09-21 04:57:46 UTC
Joe Fairless | How to Raise $100M in Private Funding in a First-Time Real Estate Deal

Joe Fairless Smart Business Revolution John Corcoran

rsz_smart_business_revolution_podcast_artwork_redJoe Fairless is a former advertising Vice President who decided to transition into real estate investing at a time when everyone else was getting out. It served him well as he was able to raise over $100 million in private funding for his first deal. He now helps others learn about real estate investing through coaching and his podcast, The Best Ever Show.

In this episode, we also talk about:

  • How Joe Raised Over $100 Million for His First Real Estate Deal
  • Joe’s Advice for Approaching Potential Investors
  • Joe’s Transition from Advertising to Real Estate
  • The Importance of Surrounding Yourself with the Right People
  • Why Everyone Should Start a Podcast or Blog
  • How Joe Gets Big Name Guests for His Podcast
  • Who Joe Thanks for His Success

Sponsor: Rise25

This episode is sponsored today by Rise25 Inner Circle… Rise25 is an exclusive, application-only accountability and group coaching program for professional services entrepreneurs running 6, 7 and 8 figure businesses who want to scale up, and shift from “one to one” client work to “one to many.”

Rise25 Inner Circle was founded by my business partner, Dr. Jeremy Weisz and myself… every few months, at 4-star luxury properties, we bring together like-minded entrepreneurs who come from client-serving backgrounds and they want to make the shift from chasing clients to having large groups of clients and buyers chasing them.

What makes these events different from any other events you’ve seen for entrepreneurs is we bring in our “Sherpas” – 8 and 9 figure entrepreneurs who are there the full time, in the retreat room providing feedback. Think of the Sharks from “Shark Tank” except they only give out advice rather than investment.

Then we back up those live in-person retreats with ongoing, regular accountability and group coaching – so you are guaranteed to turn inspiration into action.

Check out Rise25 to learn more

Right Click here to download the MP3

Click here to subscribe via iTunes

Advertise on the Smart Business

The post Joe Fairless | How to Raise $100M in Private Funding in a First-Time Real Estate Deal appeared first on Smart Business Revolution.

David Nihill | Do You Talk Funny?
2017-09-21 04:57:46 UTC
David Nihill | Do You Talk Funny?

David Nihill Smart Business Revolution John Corcoran

rsz_smart_business_revolution_podcast_artwork_redDavid Nihill is the author of Do You Talk Funny? and the Founder of FunnyBizz which is a community, writing platform, and conference series that helps content creators access top comedic writing talent. He places a heavy emphasis on incorporating comedic storytelling into public speaking engagements and interactions with your potential customers.

In this episode, we also talk about:

  • Why Humor is Relevant in the Business World
  • Tips to Develop a Sense of Humor if You’re Not Naturally Funny
  • How David Used Stand-Up Comedy to Gain Public Speaking Public Speaking Skills
  • The Importance of Using Inherently Funny Words
  • Comedy is in the Details
  • How to Utilize Misdirection for a Comedic Effect
  • The Boundaries of Comedy in a Business Context
  • How to Combat Stage Fright with a Memory Palace
  • Who Does David Thank for His Success

Sponsor: Rise25

This episode is sponsored today by Rise25 Inner Circle… Rise25 is an exclusive, application-only accountability and group coaching program for professional services entrepreneurs running 6, 7 and 8 figure businesses who want to scale up, and shift from “one to one” client work to “one to many.”

Rise25 Inner Circle was founded by my business partner, Dr. Jeremy Weisz and myself… every few months, at 4-star luxury properties, we bring together like-minded entrepreneurs who come from client-serving backgrounds and they want to make the shift from chasing clients to having large groups of clients and buyers chasing them.

What makes these events different from any other events you’ve seen for entrepreneurs is we bring in our “Sherpas” – 8 and 9 figure entrepreneurs who are there the full time, in the retreat room providing feedback. Think of the Sharks from “Shark Tank” except they only give out advice rather than investment.

Then we back up those live in-person retreats with ongoing, regular accountability and group coaching – so you are guaranteed to turn inspiration into action.

Check out Rise25 to learn more

Right Click here to download the MP3

Click here to subscribe via iTunes

Advertise on the Smart Business

The post David Nihill | Do You Talk Funny? appeared first on Smart Business Revolution.

Jonathan Milligan | From High School Teacher to Full-Time Blogger
2017-09-21 04:57:46 UTC
Jonathan Milligan | From High School Teacher to Full-Time Blogger

Jonathan Milligan Smart Business Revolution John Corcoran

rsz_smart_business_revolution_podcast_artwork_redJonathan Milligan followed in his parent’s footsteps and became a teacher. However, after just three years, he knew he wanted something more. He left teaching to become an Executive Recruiter but soon tired of the “feast or famine” way of life that is so common when one lives entirely off commissions. Jonathan realized the blog he’s been working on in his spare time showed the potential to make some real money so he made the leap into full-time blogging and hasn’t looked back since.

In this episode, we also talk about:

  • How Jonathan Went from Teaching to Executive Recruiter
  • The Networking Insights Jonathan Gained as a Recruiter
  • Finding a Balance Between Building Relationships and Earning Commissions Quickly
  • Jonathan’s Transition into Blogging Full-Time
  • What Jonathan Found Difficult About Leaving a Service-Based Business Model Behind
  • Where Jonathan Learned All the Ways He Could Earn Money Online
  • How Jonathan Began Hosting Live Events
  • Examples of Revenue Streams for Bloggers
  • Who Jonathan Thanks for His Success

Sponsor: Rise25

This episode is sponsored today by Rise25 Inner Circle… Rise25 is an exclusive, application-only accountability and group coaching program for professional services entrepreneurs running 6, 7 and 8 figure businesses who want to scale up, and shift from “one to one” client work to “one to many.”

Rise25 Inner Circle was founded by my business partner, Dr. Jeremy Weisz and myself… every few months, at 4-star luxury properties, we bring together like-minded entrepreneurs who come from client-serving backgrounds and they want to make the shift from chasing clients to having large groups of clients and buyers chasing them.

What makes these events different from any other events you’ve seen for entrepreneurs is we bring in our “Sherpas” – 8 and 9 figure entrepreneurs who are there the full time, in the retreat room providing feedback. Think of the Sharks from “Shark Tank” except they only give out advice rather than investment.

Then we back up those live in-person retreats with ongoing, regular accountability and group coaching – so you are guaranteed to turn inspiration into action.

Check out Rise25 to learn more

Right Click here to download the MP3

Click here to subscribe via iTunes

Advertise on the Smart Business

The post Jonathan Milligan | From High School Teacher to Full-Time Blogger appeared first on Smart Business Revolution.

Rob Kosberg | How to Launch a Bestseller
2017-09-21 04:57:46 UTC
Rob Kosberg | How to Launch a Bestseller

Rob Kosberg Smart Business Revolution John Corcoran

rsz_smart_business_revolution_podcast_artwork_redRob Kosberg spent 20 years in the real estate game before “failing” his way into writing a bestseller that led to an incredibly successful business in financial services.  Rob then fell into helping other entrepreneurs write and publish their books and discovered his true passion.

In this episode, we also talk about:

  • How Rob Failed His Way into Writing a Bestseller
  • Common Barriers to Writing a Book
  • Is the term “Bestseller” Becoming Watered Down?
  • How to Become a Bestseller Without a Following
  • What Platforms Should Aspiring Authors Focus On?
  • How to Utilize Facebook Ads as an Author
  • What is a Backend Strategy and Why Should Authors Have One?
  • Which Should Come First, the Backend or the Book?
  • The First Step to Writing a Book
  • Who Rob Thanks for His Success

Sponsor: Rise25

This episode is sponsored today by Rise25 Inner Circle… Rise25 is an exclusive, application-only accountability and group coaching program for professional services entrepreneurs running 6, 7 and 8 figure businesses who want to scale up, and shift from “one to one” client work to “one to many.”

Rise25 Inner Circle was founded by my business partner, Dr. Jeremy Weisz and myself… every few months, at 4-star luxury properties, we bring together like-minded entrepreneurs who come from client-serving backgrounds and they want to make the shift from chasing clients to having large groups of clients and buyers chasing them.

What makes these events different from any other events you’ve seen for entrepreneurs is we bring in our “Sherpas” – 8 and 9 figure entrepreneurs who are there the full time, in the retreat room providing feedback. Think of the Sharks from “Shark Tank” except they only give out advice rather than investment.

Then we back up those live in-person retreats with ongoing, regular accountability and group coaching – so you are guaranteed to turn inspiration into action.

Check out Rise25 to learn more

Right Click here to download the MP3

Click here to subscribe via iTunes

Advertise on the Smart Business

The post Rob Kosberg | How to Launch a Bestseller appeared first on Smart Business Revolution.

Jon Ferrara | How to Manage Your Relationships with a CRM Software Pioneer
2017-09-21 04:57:46 UTC
Jon Ferrara | How to Manage Your Relationships with a CRM Software Pioneer

Jon Ferrara Smart Business Revolution John Corcoran

rsz_smart_business_revolution_podcast_artwork_redJon Ferrara built his first relationship management software company before personal computers were a common household item. After seeing the rise of social media, Jon knew he had to get back in the relationship management game and built another software company. Today, we’ll be talking about that company and much more.

In this episode, we also talk about:

  • Why Jon Started Thinking About CRM Software Back in the 80’s
  • How Jon Built His First Relationship Management Software Company
  • Jon’s Early Mentors
  • Why We’re All in Sales, even if We Don’t Realize it
  • How to Adopt Better Relationship Building Habits
  • How Social Media Convinced Jon to Create Nimble
  • The Nimble Plug-in That Lets You Take Your Golden Rolodex with You
  • The Biggest Call to Failure in Business Relationship
  • The Challenges Jon Experienced Building Nimble That Didn’t Exist While Building His First Company
  • What is Marketing Automation?
  • Jon’s Experience Having Mark Cuban as an Investor in Nimble
  • Who Jon Thanks for His Success
  • The Five E’s of Social Business

Sponsor: Rise25

This episode is sponsored today by Rise25 Inner Circle… Rise25 is an exclusive, application-only accountability and group coaching program for professional services entrepreneurs running 6, 7 and 8 figure businesses who want to scale up, and shift from “one to one” client work to “one to many.”

Rise25 Inner Circle was founded by my business partner, Dr. Jeremy Weisz and myself… every few months, at 4-star luxury properties, we bring together like-minded entrepreneurs who come from client-serving backgrounds and they want to make the shift from chasing clients to having large groups of clients and buyers chasing them.

What makes these events different from any other events you’ve seen for entrepreneurs is we bring in our “Sherpas” – 8 and 9 figure entrepreneurs who are there the full time, in the retreat room providing feedback. Think of the Sharks from “Shark Tank” except they only give out advice rather than investment.

Then we back up those live in-person retreats with ongoing, regular accountability and group coaching – so you are guaranteed to turn inspiration into action.

Check out Rise25 to learn more

Right Click here to download the MP3

Click here to subscribe via iTunes

Advertise on the Smart Business

The post Jon Ferrara | How to Manage Your Relationships with a CRM Software Pioneer appeared first on Smart Business Revolution.

Ray Edwards | From Copywriter for Hire to New Media Empire
2017-09-21 04:57:46 UTC
Ray Edwards | From Copywriter for Hire to New Media Empire

Ray Edwards Smart Business Revolution John Corcoran

rsz_smart_business_revolution_podcast_artwork_redRay Edwards fell in love with copywriting at a very young age thanks to “newspapers” like The National Enquirer used his passion for copywriting to help keep his job in Radio when all the other disc jockeys were being let go. Eventually, he started hiring himself out as a copywriter and now he’s built in his business in a way that he only works with approximately one client each year. Today, we’re talking all about his incredible entrepreneurial journey that’s led to him creating.

Today, we’re talking all about the incredible entrepreneurial journey that’s led to him creating marketing campaigns that have generated over $100 million for his clients.

In this episode, we also talk about:

  • How Ray Fell in Love with Copywriting at a Young Age
  • The Importance of Using Copywriting for Good
  • The Event That Led Ray to Work with Jack Canfield, Amy Porterfield, Tony Robbins, and More
  • How Ray Learned He was Underpricing His Services
  • The Secret Sauce to Writing Copy that Persuades
  • Why Ray Shifted His Business from One-on-One to One-to-Many
  • How Ray Transitioned from Copywriter for Hire to a Diversified Business Model
  • Who Ray Thanks for His Success

Sponsor: Rise25

This episode is sponsored today by Rise25 Inner Circle… Rise25 is an exclusive, application-only accountability and group coaching program for professional services entrepreneurs running 6, 7 and 8 figure businesses who want to scale up, and shift from “one to one” client work to “one to many.”

Rise25 Inner Circle was founded by my business partner, Dr. Jeremy Weisz and myself… every few months, at 4-star luxury properties, we bring together like-minded entrepreneurs who come from client-serving backgrounds and they want to make the shift from chasing clients to having large groups of clients and buyers chasing them.

What makes these events different from any other events you’ve seen for entrepreneurs is we bring in our “Sherpas” – 8 and 9 figure entrepreneurs who are there the full time, in the retreat room providing feedback. Think of the Sharks from “Shark Tank” except they only give out advice rather than investment.

Then we back up those live in-person retreats with ongoing, regular accountability and group coaching – so you are guaranteed to turn inspiration into action.

Check out Rise25 to learn more

Right Click here to download the MP3

Click here to subscribe via iTunes

Advertise on the Smart Business

The post Ray Edwards | From Copywriter for Hire to New Media Empire appeared first on Smart Business Revolution.

Selena Soo | How to Build Relationships with Online Influencers
2017-09-21 04:57:46 UTC
Selena Soo | How to Build Relationships with Online Influencers

Selena Soo Smart Business Revolution John Corcoran

rsz_smart_business_revolution_podcast_artwork_redSelena Soo is a business and publicity strategist who helps experts, authors, and coaches make it big, both online and in the mainstream media. As a result of Selena’s generous character, and her experience with her business, Selena has developed some incredible relationship building skills. In this episode, we’re going to talk about those skills and much more!

In this episode, we also talk about:

  • Has Selena Always Been Gifted at Building Relationships?
  • Selena’s Non-Profit Phase
  • How Selena Connected with Remit Sethi and Derek Halpern
  • How to Nurture Relationships After the Initial Meeting
  • Is Relationship Building Worth the Time Investment?
  • How Selena Draws the Line between Helping a Friend and Making Them a Client
  • The Importance of Doing Your Due Diligence Before Making an Introduction
  • What if You Reach Out to Someone and Don’t Get a Response?
  • Why Selena Hosts Networking Dinner Parties
  • The Tools Selena Uses to Keep Track of Her Relationship Building
  • Who Selena Thanks for Her Success

Sponsor: Rise25

This episode is sponsored today by Rise25 Inner Circle… Rise25 is an exclusive, application-only accountability and group coaching program for professional services entrepreneurs running 6, 7 and 8 figure businesses who want to scale up, and shift from “one to one” client work to “one to many.”

Rise25 Inner Circle was founded by my business partner, Dr. Jeremy Weisz and myself… every few months, at 4-star luxury properties, we bring together like-minded entrepreneurs who come from client-serving backgrounds and they want to make the shift from chasing clients to having large groups of clients and buyers chasing them.

What makes these events different from any other events you’ve seen for entrepreneurs is we bring in our “Sherpas” – 8 and 9 figure entrepreneurs who are there the full time, in the retreat room providing feedback. Think of the Sharks from “Shark Tank” except they only give out advice rather than investment.

Then we back up those live in-person retreats with ongoing, regular accountability and group coaching – so you are guaranteed to turn inspiration into action.

Check out Rise25 to learn more

Right Click here to download the MP3

Click here to subscribe via iTunes

Advertise on the Smart Business

The post Selena Soo | How to Build Relationships with Online Influencers appeared first on Smart Business Revolution.

Naveen Dittakavi | How to Build Recurring Revenue
2017-09-21 04:57:46 UTC
Naveen Dittakavi | How to Build Recurring Revenue

Naveen Dittakavi Smart Business Revolution John Corcoran

rsz_smart_business_revolution_podcast_artwork_redNaveen Dittakavi is a software engineer who, after gaining incredible access to Ramit Sethi, grew his business to the point where he could barely keep up. It was at this point that he realized, like most entrepreneurs, he was tired of trading his time for money.

Naveen began to change the way he thought about his relationship with his clients and started to focus more on recurring revenue instead of one-off projects. Now, he teaches other software developers how to do the same.

In this episode, we also talk about:

  • How Naveen First Learned to Approach Potential Clients
  • How Naveen Got “Holy Grail Access” to Ramit Sethi
  • The Realization That Increased Naveen’s Business by 5x in One Year
  • Why You Need to Be Fully Prepared to Achieve Your Goals
  • Why Naveen Conducted One-On-One Coaching Before Creating an Online Course
  • How Naveen Was Able to Successfully Switch to a Recurring Revenue Model
  • Who Naveen Thanks for His Success

Sponsor: Rise25

This episode is sponsored today by Rise25 Inner Circle… Rise25 is an exclusive, application-only accountability and group coaching program for professional services entrepreneurs running 6, 7 and 8 figure businesses who want to scale up, and shift from “one to one” client work to “one to many.”

Rise25 Inner Circle was founded by my business partner, Dr. Jeremy Weisz and myself… every few months, at 4-star luxury properties, we bring together like-minded entrepreneurs who come from client-serving backgrounds and they want to make the shift from chasing clients to having large groups of clients and buyers chasing them.

What makes these events different from any other events you’ve seen for entrepreneurs is we bring in our “Sherpas” – 8 and 9 figure entrepreneurs who are there the full time, in the retreat room providing feedback. Think of the Sharks from “Shark Tank” except they only give out advice rather than investment.

Then we back up those live in-person retreats with ongoing, regular accountability and group coaching – so you are guaranteed to turn inspiration into action.

Check out Rise25 to learn more

Right Click here to download the MP3

Click here to subscribe via iTunes

Advertise on the Smart Business

The post Naveen Dittakavi | How to Build Recurring Revenue appeared first on Smart Business Revolution.

Tim Grahl | How to Launch a Bestselling Book in a Digital World
2017-09-21 04:57:46 UTC
Tim Grahl | How to Launch a Bestselling Book in a Digital World

Tim Grahl Smart Business Revolution John Corcoran

rsz_smart_business_revolution_podcast_artwork_redTim Grahl has dedicated the past seven years to helping over 100 authors get their books into in the hands of more readers and, at one point, he had five separate clients on the New York Times Bestseller list at the same time. He’s now launched his own book, Your First 1,000 Copies, and we’re talking about how Tim has built an amazing client base and helps them launch Bestsellers.

In this episode, we also talk about:

  • How Tim Got into the Book Marketing Industry
  • How Tim Landed His Dream Clients
  • Why Authors Need an Email List
  • Why Helping People is the Best Way to Help Yourself
  • Do Authors Have to Be on Social Media?
  • How to Connect with the Right Influencers for Your Book Launch
  • Why Tim Created His Online Course
  • Tim and John’s Twitter Tips for Connecting with Speakers at Conferences
  • Who Tim Thanks for His Success

Sponsor: Rise25

This episode is sponsored today by Rise25 Inner Circle… Rise25 is an exclusive, application-only accountability and group coaching program for professional services entrepreneurs running 6, 7 and 8 figure businesses who want to scale up, and shift from “one to one” client work to “one to many.”

Rise25 Inner Circle was founded by my business partner, Dr. Jeremy Weisz and myself… every few months, at 4-star luxury properties, we bring together like-minded entrepreneurs who come from client-serving backgrounds and they want to make the shift from chasing clients to having large groups of clients and buyers chasing them.

What makes these events different from any other events you’ve seen for entrepreneurs is we bring in our “Sherpas” – 8 and 9 figure entrepreneurs who are there the full time, in the retreat room providing feedback. Think of the Sharks from “Shark Tank” except they only give out advice rather than investment.

Then we back up those live in-person retreats with ongoing, regular accountability and group coaching – so you are guaranteed to turn inspiration into action.

Check out Rise25 to learn more

Right Click here to download the MP3

Click here to subscribe via iTunes

Advertise on the Smart Business

The post Tim Grahl | How to Launch a Bestselling Book in a Digital World appeared first on Smart Business Revolution.

Hal Elrod | How to Create Your Miracle Morning
2017-09-21 04:57:46 UTC
Hal Elrod | How to Create Your Miracle Morning

Hal Elrod Smart Business Revolution John Corcoran

rsz_smart_business_revolution_podcast_artwork_redHal Elrod set a sales record within ten days of selling Cutco knives. A year later, after speaking at a Cutco event, he found himself in a head-on collision that left him in a coma, with multiple broken bones, permanent brain damage, and doctors telling him he would never walk again.

A few years after miraculously regaining his ability to walk, and experiencing tremendous business success, he found himself losing his family’s home and with over $52,000 in credit card debt. As a result, he developed the practices that dramatically changed his life and led to him writing The Miracle Morning; which has gone on to inspire millions and spawned an engaged Facebook community.

In this episode, we also talk about:

  • The Traumatic Car Accident That Change Hal’s Life
  • What Devastating Events Led Hal to Write Miracle Morning?
  • The Five-Step Snooze-Proof Wake-Up Strategy
  • The Six-Minute Miracle Morning
  • Six Practices to Save You from A Life of Unfulfilled Potential
  • Who Does Hal Thank for His Success

Sponsor: Rise25

This episode is sponsored today by Rise25 Inner Circle… Rise25 is an exclusive, application-only accountability and group coaching program for professional services entrepreneurs running 6, 7 and 8 figure businesses who want to scale up, and shift from “one to one” client work to “one to many.”

Rise25 Inner Circle was founded by my business partner, Dr. Jeremy Weisz and myself… every few months, at 4-star luxury properties, we bring together like-minded entrepreneurs who come from client-serving backgrounds and they want to make the shift from chasing clients to having large groups of clients and buyers chasing them.

What makes these events different from any other events you’ve seen for entrepreneurs is we bring in our “Sherpas” – 8 and 9 figure entrepreneurs who are there the full time, in the retreat room providing feedback. Think of the Sharks from “Shark Tank” except they only give out advice rather than investment.

Then we back up those live in-person retreats with ongoing, regular accountability and group coaching – so you are guaranteed to turn inspiration into action.

Check out Rise25 to learn more

Right Click here to download the MP3

Click here to subscribe via iTunes

Advertise on the Smart Business

The post Hal Elrod | How to Create Your Miracle Morning appeared first on Smart Business Revolution.

Mike Michalowicz | How to Surge Your Business to Growth
2017-09-21 04:57:46 UTC
Mike Michalowicz | How to Surge Your Business to Growth

Mike Michalowicz Smart Business Revolution John Corcoran

rsz_smart_business_revolution_podcast_artwork_redMike Michalowicz founded and sold two multi-million dollar companies, became an angel investor, and then lost it all. Now, he’s running his third million dollar company, is the author of Surge, and is on the show today to talk about how to “manufacture luck” by getting ahead of imminent changes in your market.

In this episode, we also talk about:

  • How Mike Became Interested in Learning How to Manufacture Luck
  • How to Foresee Where Your Market is Going
  • Shifting a Change in Market from Destroying Your Business to Helping It
  • Why it’s Critical to Pay Attention to Changes in Your Market
  • Why a Simple Product is Sometimes Best
  • The Best Places to do Market Research
  • Who Mike Thanks for His Success

Sponsor: Rise25

This episode is sponsored today by Rise25 Inner Circle… Rise25 is an exclusive, application-only accountability and group coaching program for professional services entrepreneurs running 6, 7 and 8 figure businesses who want to scale up, and shift from “one to one” client work to “one to many.”

Rise25 Inner Circle was founded by my business partner, Dr. Jeremy Weisz and myself… every few months, at 4-star luxury properties, we bring together like-minded entrepreneurs who come from client-serving backgrounds and they want to make the shift from chasing clients to having large groups of clients and buyers chasing them.

What makes these events different from any other events you’ve seen for entrepreneurs is we bring in our “Sherpas” – 8 and 9 figure entrepreneurs who are there the full time, in the retreat room providing feedback. Think of the Sharks from “Shark Tank” except they only give out advice rather than investment.

Then we back up those live in-person retreats with ongoing, regular accountability and group coaching – so you are guaranteed to turn inspiration into action.

Check out Rise25 to learn more

Right Click here to download the MP3

Click here to subscribe via iTunes

Advertise on the Smart Business

The post Mike Michalowicz | How to Surge Your Business to Growth appeared first on Smart Business Revolution.

Teresa De Groisbois | How to Create Mass Influence & Connect with Influential Players
2017-09-21 04:57:46 UTC
Teresa De Groisbois | How to Create Mass Influence & Connect with Influential Players

Teresa de Groisbois Smart Business Revolution John Corcoran

rsz_smart_business_revolution_podcast_artwork_redTeresa de Groisbois is an expert in how to connect with influential players in any industry. In fact, she wrote the book on it. Mass Influence became a bestseller before it had even been released! She’s mastered the art of playing the “influencer game” and is on the show today to talk about this very topic.

In this episode, we also talk about:

Sponsor: Rise25

This episode is sponsored today by Rise25 Inner Circle… Rise25 is an exclusive, application-only accountability and group coaching program for professional services entrepreneurs running 6, 7 and 8 figure businesses who want to scale up, and shift from “one to one” client work to “one to many.”

Rise25 Inner Circle was founded by my business partner, Dr. Jeremy Weisz and myself… every few months, at 4-star luxury properties, we bring together like-minded entrepreneurs who come from client-serving backgrounds and they want to make the shift from chasing clients to having large groups of clients and buyers chasing them.

What makes these events different from any other events you’ve seen for entrepreneurs is we bring in our “Sherpas” – 8 and 9 figure entrepreneurs who are there the full time, in the retreat room providing feedback. Think of the Sharks from “Shark Tank” except they only give out advice rather than investment.

Then we back up those live in-person retreats with ongoing, regular accountability and group coaching – so you are guaranteed to turn inspiration into action.

Check out Rise25 to learn more

Right Click here to download the MP3

Click here to subscribe via iTunes

Advertise on the Smart Business

The post Teresa De Groisbois | How to Create Mass Influence & Connect with Influential Players appeared first on Smart Business Revolution.

Melanie Benson | How to Create a Greater Impact
2017-09-21 04:57:46 UTC
Melanie Benson | How to Create a Greater Impact

rsz_smart_business_revolution_podcast_artwork_redMelanie Benson decided to leave corporate America behind to start her own business. Two weeks later, the tragic events of 9/11 happened and the economy crashed. That experience taught Melanie how to adapt in a way that all successful entrepreneurs must know how to do.

Today, Melanie specializes in aligning visionary, game-changing entrepreneurs who are emerging as leaders with the most powerful mindset, actions, and strategies that propel them to a level of success they never knew they could achieve.

In this episode, we also talk about:

  • What Caused Melanie to Leave Corporate America Behind?
  • The Mental Hurdles Melanie Faced in the Beginning
  • When Did Melanie Realize She Wanted to Focus on the Feeling of Overwhelm?
  • How Melanie Led a Networking Group Before She Was Even Making Money in Her Business
  • The Importance of Having a Strong Mindset
  • Melanie’s Process for Trying Something New in Her Business
  • Why You Might Need to Educate Your Audience on What Their Problem Is
  • The Importance of Balancing Logic and Intuition
  • Who Does Melanie Thank for Her Success?

Resources Mentioned:

Sponsor: Rise25

This episode is sponsored today by Rise25 Inner Circle… Rise25 is an exclusive, application-only accountability and group coaching program for professional services entrepreneurs running 6, 7 and 8 figure businesses who want to scale up, and shift from “one to one” client work to “one to many.”

Rise25 Inner Circle was founded by my business partner, Dr. Jeremy Weisz and myself… every few months, at 4-star luxury properties, we bring together like-minded entrepreneurs who come from client-serving backgrounds and they want to make the shift from chasing clients to having large groups of clients and buyers chasing them.

What makes these events different from any other events you’ve seen for entrepreneurs is we bring in our “Sherpas” – 8 and 9 figure entrepreneurs who are there the full time, in the retreat room providing feedback. Think of the Sharks from “Shark Tank” except they only give out advice rather than investment.

Then we back up those live in-person retreats with ongoing, regular accountability and group coaching – so you are guaranteed to turn inspiration into action.

Check out Rise25 to learn more

Right Click here to download the MP3

Click here to subscribe via iTunes

Advertise on the Smart Business

The post Melanie Benson | How to Create a Greater Impact appeared first on Smart Business Revolution.

Jeff Bullas | How to Build Credibility and Trust in a Digital World
2017-09-21 04:57:46 UTC
Jeff Bullas | How to Build Credibility and Trust in a Digital World

rsz_smart_business_revolution_podcast_artwork_redJeff Bullas was going through a rough time of unemployment and divorce when he decided to start his blog about social media back in 2009.

Today, he’s asked to speak at events all over the world, has written multiple books, and works with personal brands and business to optimize their online personal and company brands with emerging technologies, content, social media technologies and digital marketing.

In this episode, we also talk about:

  • Why Jeff Decided to Start a Blog in 2009
  • How Jeff’s Blog Caused Him to Get Slowly Fired from His Corporate Job
  • What About Social Media Caused Jeff to Create a Blog About It?
  • How the Original Version of Social Media is Slowly Disappearing
  • Should You Focus All Your Efforts on One Platform?
  • The Importance of Converting Social Media Traffic Into “Owned” Traffic
  • Jeff’s Tactics for Growing His Email List by 80,000 in 5 Months
  • The Importance of Validation for Staying Motivated
  • What Excites Jeff About the Future of Social Media?
  •  Who Jeff Thanks for His Success

Resources Mentioned:

Sponsor: Rise25

This episode is sponsored today by Rise25 Inner Circle… Rise25 is an exclusive, application-only accountability and group coaching program for professional services entrepreneurs running 6, 7 and 8 figure businesses who want to scale up, and shift from “one to one” client work to “one to many.”

Rise25 Inner Circle was founded by my business partner, Dr. Jeremy Weisz and myself… every few months, at 4-star luxury properties, we bring together like-minded entrepreneurs who come from client-serving backgrounds and they want to make the shift from chasing clients to having large groups of clients and buyers chasing them.

What makes these events different from any other events you’ve seen for entrepreneurs is we bring in our “Sherpas” – 8 and 9 figure entrepreneurs who are there the full time, in the retreat room providing feedback. Think of the Sharks from “Shark Tank” except they only give out advice rather than investment.

Then we back up those live in-person retreats with ongoing, regular accountability and group coaching – so you are guaranteed to turn inspiration into action.

Check out Rise25 to learn more

Right Click here to download the MP3

Click here to subscribe via iTunes

Advertise on the Smart Business

The post Jeff Bullas | How to Build Credibility and Trust in a Digital World appeared first on Smart Business Revolution.

Garrett Gunderson | Personal Finance for Entrepreneurs
2017-09-21 04:57:46 UTC
Garrett Gunderson | Personal Finance for Entrepreneurs

rsz_smart_business_revolution_podcast_artwork_redGarrett Gunderson started his first business at the age of 15 and was named Utah’s Young Entrepreneur of the Year.  When Garrett graduated college, he was offered positions at some of the countries top financial companies but, to the dismay of his parents at the time, he chose to remain an entrepreneur.

Today, Garrett helps business owners save money by showing them how to improve areas of their business they’ve been neglecting.

In this episode, we also talk about:

  • What Inspired Garrett to Start a Company at Age 15
  • The Challenge of Choosing Entrepreneurship Over a “Safe” Career
  • How Garrett Became “The Doogie Howser of Finance
  • The Tragic Plane Crash that Claimed the Lives of Two Business Partners
  • How the Tragedy Caused Garrett to Finally Finish His Book
  • The Effects of the 2008 Housing Market Crash on Garrett’s 100+ Properties
  • How Garrett Saves Business Owners Money with Wealth Factory
  • Why Garrett is Willing to Spend $40,000/Year in Education
  • Focusing on Relationship Capital
  • Who Garrett Thanks for His Success

Resources Mentioned:

Sponsor: Rise25

This episode is sponsored today by Rise25 Inner Circle… Rise25 is an exclusive, application-only accountability and group coaching program for professional services entrepreneurs running 6, 7 and 8 figure businesses who want to scale up, and shift from “one to one” client work to “one to many.”

Rise25 Inner Circle was founded by my business partner, Dr. Jeremy Weisz and myself… every few months, at 4-star luxury properties, we bring together like-minded entrepreneurs who come from client-serving backgrounds and they want to make the shift from chasing clients to having large groups of clients and buyers chasing them.

What makes these events different from any other events you’ve seen for entrepreneurs is we bring in our “Sherpas” – 8 and 9 figure entrepreneurs who are there the full time, in the retreat room providing feedback. Think of the Sharks from “Shark Tank” except they only give out advice rather than investment.

Then we back up those live in-person retreats with ongoing, regular accountability and group coaching – so you are guaranteed to turn inspiration into action.

Check out Rise25 to learn more

Right Click here to download the MP3

Click here to subscribe via iTunes

Advertise on the Smart Business

The post Garrett Gunderson | Personal Finance for Entrepreneurs appeared first on Smart Business Revolution.

Dan Kuschell | Growth to Freedom
2017-09-21 04:57:46 UTC
Dan Kuschell | Growth to Freedom

rsz_smart_business_revolution_podcast_artwork_redDan Kuschell started his first business at the age of 22 and hasn’t stopped since. However, a health scare in 2007 caused Dan to reevaluate his priorities and he’s now focused on helping other entrepreneurs grow their businesses.

Dan’s desire is to pass on the knowledge and skills other have taught him, and that’s he picked up on his own, throughout his 20 years as an entrepreneur.

In this episode, we also talk about:

  • The Health Scare That Changed Dan’s Life
  • How Dan Started His First Business at 22
  • Why Dan Started a Business While $100,000 in Debt
  • The Magic in Commitment
  • The Three Questions That Tripled Dan’s Business
  • How Dan Became Partners with Joe Polish of Genius Network
  • The Importance of Surrounding Yourself with Successful People
  • What Dan Wants You to Take Away from His Story
  • Who Dan Thanks for His Success

Resources Mentioned:

Sponsor: Rise25

This episode is sponsored today by Rise25 Inner Circle… Rise25 is an exclusive, application-only accountability and group coaching program for professional services entrepreneurs running 6, 7 and 8 figure businesses who want to scale up, and shift from “one to one” client work to “one to many.”

Rise25 Inner Circle was founded by my business partner, Dr. Jeremy Weisz and myself… every few months, at 4-star luxury properties, we bring together like-minded entrepreneurs who come from client-serving backgrounds and they want to make the shift from chasing clients to having large groups of clients and buyers chasing them.

What makes these events different from any other events you’ve seen for entrepreneurs is we bring in our “Sherpas” – 8 and 9 figure entrepreneurs who are there the full time, in the retreat room providing feedback. Think of the Sharks from “Shark Tank” except they only give out advice rather than investment.

Then we back up those live in-person retreats with ongoing, regular accountability and group coaching – so you are guaranteed to turn inspiration into action.

Check out Rise25 to learn more

Right Click here to download the MP3

Click here to subscribe via iTunes

Advertise on the Smart Business

The post Dan Kuschell | Growth to Freedom appeared first on Smart Business Revolution.

John Ruhlin | How to Use Strategic Gifting to Get Ahead
2017-09-21 04:57:46 UTC
John Ruhlin | How to Use Strategic Gifting to Get Ahead

rsz_smart_business_revolution_podcast_artwork_redJohn Ruhlin grew up a self-proclaim “poor farm boy” and by the time he was in college, he was well on his way to becoming the #1 distributor (out of 1.5 million!) in Cutco’s history.

He’s since launched his own company where he creates gifting strategies and packages for the world’s largest companies and professional sports teams.

In this episode, we also talk about:

  • Why John Starting Selling Knives for Cutco
  • When John Learned Relationships are Key in Sales
  • How John Had a Team of People Working for Him in College
  • John’s Tactics for Connecting with Several Major Sports Franchises
  • Why You Should Spend More on Gifts Than You Do on Dinner for Clients
  • Are You Marketing or Building Relationships?
  • John’s Recommended Companies for Gifts
  • How John Used Suits to Land a VIP Client
  • Common Corporate Gift Giving Mistakes
  • Who Does John Thank for His Success?

Sponsor: Rise25

This episode is sponsored today by Rise25 Inner Circle… Rise25 is an exclusive, application-only accountability and group coaching program for professional services entrepreneurs running 6, 7 and 8 figure businesses who want to scale up, and shift from “one to one” client work to “one to many.”

Rise25 Inner Circle was founded by my business partner, Dr. Jeremy Weisz and myself… every few months, at 4-star luxury properties, we bring together like-minded entrepreneurs who come from client-serving backgrounds and they want to make the shift from chasing clients to having large groups of clients and buyers chasing them.

What makes these events different from any other events you’ve seen for entrepreneurs is we bring in our “Sherpas” – 8 and 9 figure entrepreneurs who are there the full time, in the retreat room providing feedback. Think of the Sharks from “Shark Tank” except they only give out advice rather than investment.

Then we back up those live in-person retreats with ongoing, regular accountability and group coaching – so you are guaranteed to turn inspiration into action.

Check out Rise25 to learn more

Right Click here to download the MP3

Click here to subscribe via iTunes

Advertise on the Smart Business

The post John Ruhlin | How to Use Strategic Gifting to Get Ahead appeared first on Smart Business Revolution.

Kevin Kermes | How to Use Relationships to Grow a Career
2017-09-21 04:57:46 UTC
Kevin Kermes | How to Use Relationships to Grow a Career

rsz_smart_business_revolution_podcast_artwork_redKevin Kermes went from being an Infantryman in the Army to placing executives with major corporations as a recruiter to now showing high achievers how to take their career to the next level with his own company.

All of these experiences have taught him the value of relationship building and that making connections in the right can have a major impact on your career.

In this episode, we also talk about:

  • The Importance of Relationships in Recruiting
  • How the Army Prepared Kevin for the Private Sector
  • Kevin’s Secret for Obtaining Success and Increasing Your Income Level
  • Kevin’s Tactic for Getting in Front Busy Decision Makers
  • When Kevin Realized He Wasn’t Meant to Work for Someone Else
  • Kevin’s Transition from Recruiter to Career Coach
  • What You Can Do Right Now to Move Forward in Your Career
  • Who Does Kevin Thank for His Success

Resources Mentioned:

Sponsor: Rise25

This episode is sponsored today by Rise25 Inner Circle… Rise25 is an exclusive, application-only accountability and group coaching program for professional services entrepreneurs running 6, 7 and 8 figure businesses who want to scale up, and shift from “one to one” client work to “one to many.”

Rise25 Inner Circle was founded by my business partner, Dr. Jeremy Weisz and myself… every few months, at 4-star luxury properties, we bring together like-minded entrepreneurs who come from client-serving backgrounds and they want to make the shift from chasing clients to having large groups of clients and buyers chasing them.

What makes these events different from any other events you’ve seen for entrepreneurs is we bring in our “Sherpas” – 8 and 9 figure entrepreneurs who are there the full time, in the retreat room providing feedback. Think of the Sharks from “Shark Tank” except they only give out advice rather than investment.

Then we back up those live in-person retreats with ongoing, regular accountability and group coaching – so you are guaranteed to turn inspiration into action.

Check out Rise25 to learn more

Right Click here to download the MP3

Click here to subscribe via iTunes

Advertise on the Smart Business

The post Kevin Kermes | How to Use Relationships to Grow a Career appeared first on Smart Business Revolution.

111: Amber Vilhauer | How to Grow Your Business with Virtual Summits
2017-09-21 04:57:46 UTC
111: Amber Vilhauer | How to Grow Your Business with Virtual Summits

Amber Vilhauer Smart Business Revolution John Corcoran

rsz_smart_business_revolution_podcast_artwork_redAmber Vilhauer is an online business development expert who’s on the show to talk about the enigmatic world of virtual summits.

While this isn’t Amber’s only area of expertise, she’s had quite a lot of experience planning, creating, and launching virtual summits so I took advantage of the opportunity to learn more about them.

In this episode, we also talk about:

  • Amber’s First, and Only, Virtual Summit of Her Own
  • How Much Time Does It Take to Put Together a Virtual Summit
  • The Tools Needed for a Virtual Summit
  • What Should Be on Your Virtual Summit Landing Page
  • Using Virtual Summits to Build Various Relationships
  • Amber’s Tip for Getting Speakers to Say Yes to Your Virtual Summit
  • How to Come Up With Your Virtual Summit Name
  • Common Mistakes People Make With Their Virtual Summits
  • What Step Can You Take Today to Host Your Own Virtual Summit?
  • Who Does Amber Thank for Her Success?

Resources Mentioned:

Sponsor: Rise25

This episode is sponsored today by Rise25 Inner Circle… Rise25 is an exclusive, application-only accountability and group coaching program for professional services entrepreneurs running 6, 7 and 8 figure businesses who want to scale up, and shift from “one to one” client work to “one to many.”

Rise25 Inner Circle was founded by my business partner, Dr. Jeremy Weisz and myself… every few months, at 4-star luxury properties, we bring together like-minded entrepreneurs who come from client-serving backgrounds and they want to make the shift from chasing clients to having large groups of clients and buyers chasing them.

What makes these events different from any other events you’ve seen for entrepreneurs is we bring in our “Sherpas” – 8 and 9 figure entrepreneurs who are there the full time, in the retreat room providing feedback. Think of the Sharks from “Shark Tank” except they only give out advice rather than investment.

Then we back up those live in-person retreats with ongoing, regular accountability and group coaching – so you are guaranteed to turn inspiration into action.

Check out Rise25 to learn more

Right Click here to download the MP3

Click here to subscribe via iTunes

Advertise on the Smart Business

The post 111: Amber Vilhauer | How to Grow Your Business with Virtual Summits appeared first on Smart Business Revolution.

110: Shannon Hansen | From Losing Your House to 8-Figure Business
2017-09-21 04:57:46 UTC
110: Shannon Hansen | From Losing Your House to 8-Figure Business

Shannon Hansen Smart Business Revolution John Corcoran

rsz_smart_business_revolution_podcast_artwork_redShannon Hansen closed the store on his construction company with hopes of finding a way to work from home. That six-year journey saw him lose his house, max out his credit cards, and struggle with various businesses.

Today, we hear about that journey and the chance online meeting that everything changed everything.

In this episode, we also talk about:

  • What Made Shannon Quit Construction?
  • What Shannon Learned from Losing His Home
  • How a Chance Meeting in an Online Forum Changed Shannon’s Life
  • How Being an Introvert Held Shannon Back in the Beginning
  • Shannon’s Advice for Forming a Business Partnership
  • The Role Gratitude Plays in Shannon’s Daily Habits
  • Who Shannon Thanks for His Success

Sponsor: Rise25

This episode is sponsored today by Rise25 Inner Circle… Rise25 is an exclusive, application-only accountability and group coaching program for professional services entrepreneurs running 6, 7 and 8 figure businesses who want to scale up, and shift from “one to one” client work to “one to many.”

Rise25 Inner Circle was founded by my business partner, Dr. Jeremy Weisz and myself… every few months, at 4-star luxury properties, we bring together like-minded entrepreneurs who come from client-serving backgrounds and they want to make the shift from chasing clients to having large groups of clients and buyers chasing them.

What makes these events different from any other events you’ve seen for entrepreneurs is we bring in our “Sherpas” – 8 and 9 figure entrepreneurs who are there the full time, in the retreat room providing feedback. Think of the Sharks from “Shark Tank” except they only give out advice rather than investment.

Then we back up those live in-person retreats with ongoing, regular accountability and group coaching – so you are guaranteed to turn inspiration into action.

Check out Rise25 to learn more

Right Click here to download the MP3

Click here to subscribe via iTunes

Advertise on the Smart Business

The post 110: Shannon Hansen | From Losing Your House to 8-Figure Business appeared first on Smart Business Revolution.

109: Matthew Turner | How to Connect with 163 of the World’s Greatest Entrepreneurs Using a Book
2017-09-21 04:57:46 UTC
109: Matthew Turner | How to Connect with 163 of the World’s Greatest Entrepreneurs Using a Book

Matthew Turner Smart Business Revolution John Corcoran

rsz_smart_business_revolution_podcast_artwork_redMatthew Turner has written a book in which he spent two years interviewing over 150 top entrepreneurs to find out about their business mistake or failure. He also focuses on how the lessons they learned from that event eventually helped them in their business endeavors.

Over the course of scheduling those 150+ interviews, Matthew learned a few things about how to contact and follow-up with people in an efficient and effective way and we’re be focusing on that today.

Note: This interview was recorded prior to Matthew finishing his book, The Successful Mistake, and you can find it on Amazon using the links in this post.

In this episode, we also talk about:

  • How Matthew Got the Idea for The Successful Mistake
  • How Matthew Chose Who He Interviewed
  • The Mistakes Matthew Made When Trying to Get His First Few Interviews
  • How Contactually Helped Streamlined Matthew’s Follow-up Process
  • How Creativity Factors into Matthew’s Follow-up Process
  • Should You Send Video Emails?
  • What is a Good Starting Point for Connecting with People?
  • Who Does Matthew Thank for His Success?

Resources Mentioned:

Sponsor: Rise25

This episode is sponsored today by Rise25 Inner Circle… Rise25 is an exclusive, application-only accountability and group coaching program for professional services entrepreneurs running 6, 7 and 8 figure businesses who want to scale up, and shift from “one to one” client work to “one to many.”

Rise25 Inner Circle was founded by my business partner, Dr. Jeremy Weisz and myself… every few months, at 4-star luxury properties, we bring together like-minded entrepreneurs who come from client-serving backgrounds and they want to make the shift from chasing clients to having large groups of clients and buyers chasing them.

What makes these events different from any other events you’ve seen for entrepreneurs is we bring in our “Sherpas” – 8 and 9 figure entrepreneurs who are there the full time, in the retreat room providing feedback. Think of the Sharks from “Shark Tank” except they only give out advice rather than investment.

Then we back up those live in-person retreats with ongoing, regular accountability and group coaching – so you are guaranteed to turn inspiration into action.

Check out Rise25 to learn more

Right Click here to download the MP3

Click here to subscribe via iTunes

Advertise on the Smart Business

The post 109: Matthew Turner | How to Connect with 163 of the World’s Greatest Entrepreneurs Using a Book appeared first on Smart Business Revolution.

108: Judy Robinette | How to Be a Power Connector
2017-09-21 04:57:46 UTC
108: Judy Robinette | How to Be a Power Connector

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Judy Robinette went from being a shy kid who was bullied in junior high to networking her way into the Clinton Administration.

She’s connected to some major influencers in business, politics, and basically any other industry you can think of.

She’s now using her decades of networking experience to help budding entrepreneurs take their business to the next level.

In this episode, we also talk about:

  • When Judy Realized How Powerful a Network Can Be
  • How to Properly Share Your Goals With Your Network
  • How to Establish a Network in a New Industry
  • How to Handle First Interactions with Major Influencers
  • Why Networking is Critical for Crowdfunding
  • How to Maximize Live Events for Networking
  • How Curate Networking Relationships in Under an Hour a day
  • How Judy Utilizes Social Media for Networking
  • Judy’s Book: How to Be a Power Connector
  • What You Can Do Right Now to Build Your Network
  • Who Judy Thanks for Her Success

Resources Mentioned:

Sponsor: Rise25

This episode is sponsored today by Rise25 Inner Circle… Rise25 is an exclusive, application-only accountability and group coaching program for professional services entrepreneurs running 6, 7 and 8 figure businesses who want to scale up, and shift from “one to one” client work to “one to many.”

Rise25 Inner Circle was founded by my business partner, Dr. Jeremy Weisz and myself… every few months, at 4-star luxury properties, we bring together like-minded entrepreneurs who come from client-serving backgrounds and they want to make the shift from chasing clients to having large groups of clients and buyers chasing them.

What makes these events different from any other events you’ve seen for entrepreneurs is we bring in our “Sherpas” – 8 and 9 figure entrepreneurs who are there the full time, in the retreat room providing feedback. Think of the Sharks from “Shark Tank” except they only give out advice rather than investment.

Then we back up those live in-person retreats with ongoing, regular accountability and group coaching – so you are guaranteed to turn inspiration into action.

Check out Rise25 to learn more

Right Click here to download the MP3

Click here to subscribe via iTunes

Advertise on the Smart Business

The post 108: Judy Robinette | How to Be a Power Connector appeared first on Smart Business Revolution.

107: Nathan Chan | How to Build a Business Using Instagram
2017-09-21 04:57:46 UTC
107: Nathan Chan | How to Build a Business Using Instagram

Nathan Chan Smart Business Revolution Podcast John Corcoran

rsz_smart_business_revolution_podcast_artwork_red

Nathan Chan didn’t have any design experience, knew nothing about entrepreneurship, and had poor grammar skills so, naturally, he decided to start a digital magazine.

Nathan wanted to learn all he could about being an entrepreneur so he decided to start Foundr Magazine as a way to publicly document that learning process. By the eighth issue, Sir Richard Branson was on the front cover.

Now, Nathan has created a multi-media company based around the Foundr brand and the incredible success he’s had using Instagram to grow his business.

In this episode, we also talk about:

  • Why Nathan Started Foundr Magazine
  • How Nathan Gained a Mentor Through Perseverance
  • How Nathan Gets Big Names for the Magazine
  • How Nathan Found Success on Instagram
  • The Instagram Framework Nathan Used to Gain 340,000+ Followers in Less Than a Year
  • How Nathan uses Instagram to Grow His Email List
  • Who Nathan Thanks for His Success

Resources Mentioned:

Sponsor: Rise25

This episode is sponsored today by Rise25 Inner Circle… Rise25 is an exclusive, application-only accountability and group coaching program for professional services entrepreneurs running 6, 7 and 8 figure businesses who want to scale up, and shift from “one to one” client work to “one to many.”

Rise25 Inner Circle was founded by my business partner, Dr. Jeremy Weisz and myself… every few months, at 4-star luxury properties, we bring together like-minded entrepreneurs who come from client-serving backgrounds and they want to make the shift from chasing clients to having large groups of clients and buyers chasing them.

What makes these events different from any other events you’ve seen for entrepreneurs is we bring in our “Sherpas” – 8 and 9 figure entrepreneurs who are there the full time, in the retreat room providing feedback. Think of the Sharks from “Shark Tank” except they only give out advice rather than investment.

Then we back up those live in-person retreats with ongoing, regular accountability and group coaching – so you are guaranteed to turn inspiration into action.

Check out Rise25 to learn more

Right Click here to download the MP3

Click here to subscribe via iTunes

Advertise on the Smart Business

The post 107: Nathan Chan | How to Build a Business Using Instagram appeared first on Smart Business Revolution.

106: Stu McLaren | How to Sell Courses Online
40:43
2017-09-21 04:57:46 UTC 40:43
106: Stu McLaren | How to Sell Courses Online

Stu McLaren Smart Business Revolution John Corcoran

rsz_smart_business_revolution_podcast_artwork_red

Stu McLaren started his first online business just prove that it couldn’t be successful. Luckily, he proved himself wrong.

Stu launched that first business selling Halloween decorations just a few weeks before the holiday and learned his first lesson in business.

He’s since gone on to partner with key influencers like Russell Brunson and Michael Hyatt. Now, he’s stepping out from the behind the scenes to launch his own online courses about membership websites.

Stu’s story is so inspiring and one I think you’ll really be able to connect with.

In this episode, we also talk about:

  • How One $8 Sale Changed Stu’s Life
  • How Stu and Russell Brunson Became Business Partners
  • Why and How Stu Created Wishlist
  • How Stu and Michael Hyatt Became Business Partners
  • How to Develop a Relationship with a Key Influencer
  • How to Create Content for an Entire Year in Less Than a Week
  • The Difference Between Being Behind the Scenes and Being Front and Center
  • Who Stu Thanks for His Success

Resources Mentioned:

Sponsor: Rise25

This episode is sponsored today by Rise25 Inner Circle… Rise25 is an exclusive, application-only accountability and group coaching program for professional services entrepreneurs running 6, 7 and 8 figure businesses who want to scale up, and shift from “one to one” client work to “one to many.”

Rise25 Inner Circle was founded by my business partner, Dr. Jeremy Weisz and myself… every few months, at 4-star luxury properties, we bring together like-minded entrepreneurs who come from client-serving backgrounds and they want to make the shift from chasing clients to having large groups of clients and buyers chasing them.

What makes these events different from any other events you’ve seen for entrepreneurs is we bring in our “Sherpas” – 8 and 9 figure entrepreneurs who are there the full time, in the retreat room providing feedback. Think of the Sharks from “Shark Tank” except they only give out advice rather than investment.

Then we back up those live in-person retreats with ongoing, regular accountability and group coaching – so you are guaranteed to turn inspiration into action.

Check out Rise25 to learn more

Right Click here to download the MP3

Click here to subscribe via iTunes

Advertise on the Smart Business

The post 106: Stu McLaren | How to Sell Courses Online appeared first on Smart Business Revolution.

105: Brian Kurtz | Lessons Learned from 3 Billion Pieces of Mail
54:31
2017-09-21 04:57:46 UTC 54:31
105: Brian Kurtz | Lessons Learned from 3 Billion Pieces of Mail

104 Brian Kurtz Smart Business Revolution Episode Artwork

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Over the course of 34 years, Brian Kurtz worked his way up the ladder at Boardroom, Inc. and became an expert in all things Direct Marketing.

Thanks to that experience, Brian’s gone from being mentored by some of the industry’s top leaders to now charging $25,000 for a membership to his own mastermind group.

In addition to hearing about that journey, we’re also going to get Brian’s insights on how to “find” mentors.

In this episode, we also talk about:

  • Why High-Quality Content Is Key in Direct Marketing
  • The Benefits of Hosting 150 Boardroom Dinners
  • Why Brian Spends $70,000 Annually on Mastermind Groups
  • Brian’s Advice for “Finding” a Mentor
  • Why Brian was an Intrapreneur for Several Years
  • Why Brian Left Boardroom After 34 Years
  • Brian’s Challenge for You
  • What Brian Learned After Giving Acceptance Speeches for Multiple Awards

Resources Mentioned:

Sponsor: Rise25

This episode is sponsored today by Rise25 Inner Circle… Rise25 is an exclusive, application-only accountability and group coaching program for professional services entrepreneurs running 6, 7 and 8 figure businesses who want to scale up, and shift from “one to one” client work to “one to many.”

Rise25 Inner Circle was founded by my business partner, Dr. Jeremy Weisz and myself… every few months, at 4-star luxury properties, we bring together like-minded entrepreneurs who come from client-serving backgrounds and they want to make the shift from chasing clients to having large groups of clients and buyers chasing them.

What makes these events different from any other events you’ve seen for entrepreneurs is we bring in our “Sherpas” – 8 and 9 figure entrepreneurs who are there the full time, in the retreat room providing feedback. Think of the Sharks from “Shark Tank” except they only give out advice rather than investment.

Then we back up those live in-person retreats with ongoing, regular accountability and group coaching – so you are guaranteed to turn inspiration into action.

Check out Rise25 to learn more

Right Click here to download the MP3

Click here to subscribe via iTunes

Advertise on the Smart Business

The post 105: Brian Kurtz | Lessons Learned from 3 Billion Pieces of Mail appeared first on Smart Business Revolution.

104: Joseph Michael | From Turned Down for a Pizza Job to Multiple 6 Figures in a Weird Niche
41:05
2017-09-21 04:57:46 UTC 41:05
104: Joseph Michael | From Turned Down for a Pizza Job to Multiple 6 Figures in a Weird Niche

rsz_smart_business_revolution_podcast_artwork_red

Joseph Michael started out like most Entrepreneurs; working a full-time corporate job and still barely making ends meet.

Feeling the weight of the responsibility of providing for his family, he tried to get a second job delivering pizzas. After being turned down due to a “lack of driving experience,” he started to utilize his lunch breaks to create a course, and grow a business, around teaching people how to use a popular writing program called Scrivener.

We talk about that journey today and how it’s taken him from thinking he was rich if he had $200 in the bank to making more money in one webinar than he made in four months at his previous day-job.

In this episode, we also talk about:

  • The Viral Blog Post That Changed Joseph’s Approach to Business
  • Solving a Scrivener Pain Point
  • How One Tweet Changed His Life
  • Using Webinars to Make $40,000/Month
  • Joseph’s New Course About Courses
  • Joseph’s Challenge for You
  • Who Joseph Thanks for His Success

Sponsor: Rise25

This episode is sponsored today by Rise25 Inner Circle… Rise25 is an exclusive, application-only accountability and group coaching program for professional services entrepreneurs running 6, 7 and 8 figure businesses who want to scale up, and shift from “one to one” client work to “one to many.”

Rise25 Inner Circle was founded by my business partner, Dr. Jeremy Weisz and myself… every few months, at 4-star luxury properties, we bring together like-minded entrepreneurs who come from client-serving backgrounds and they want to make the shift from chasing clients to having large groups of clients and buyers chasing them.

What makes these events different from any other events you’ve seen for entrepreneurs is we bring in our “Sherpas” – 8 and 9 figure entrepreneurs who are there the full time, in the retreat room providing feedback. Think of the Sharks from “Shark Tank” except they only give out advice rather than investment.

Then we back up those live in-person retreats with ongoing, regular accountability and group coaching – so you are guaranteed to turn inspiration into action.

Check out Rise25 to learn more

Right Click here to download the MP3

Click here to subscribe via iTunes

Advertise on the Smart Business

The post 104: Joseph Michael | From Turned Down for a Pizza Job to Multiple 6 Figures in a Weird Niche appeared first on Smart Business Revolution.

103: Hugh Culver | How to Become a Paid Speaker
29:15
2017-09-21 04:57:46 UTC 29:15
103: Hugh Culver | How to Become a Paid Speaker

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Hugh Culver is using his experience being part of building five different business, including one that chartered private flights and tourist expeditions to the South Pole, to motivate others through the art of public speaking.

He speaks about Think, Plan, Act model for business 45 times a year and also helps train other speakers to improve their skills.

He’s the author of Canadian Bestseller, Give Me a Break – The Art of Making Time Work for You, and this is exactly what he’s done for himself and his business.

In this episode, we also talk about:

  • Selling Private Flights to the South Pole
  • How Selling Became Secondary to Telling His Story
  • Going From Running Out of Content to 80 Speaking Engagements a Year
  • How Hugh Scaled Back at Work but Doubled His Net Income
  • What is Hugh’s Think, Plan, Act Model of Business?
  • How Heroic Habits Lead to High Performance
  • The Main Thing Hugh Says You Can Do Today to Improve Your Life
  • Who Does Hugh Want to Thank for His Success?

Sponsor: Rise25

This episode is sponsored today by Rise25 Inner Circle… Rise25 is an exclusive, application-only accountability and group coaching program for professional services entrepreneurs running 6, 7 and 8 figure businesses who want to scale up, and shift from “one to one” client work to “one to many.”

Rise25 Inner Circle was founded by my business partner, Dr. Jeremy Weisz and myself… every few months, at 4-star luxury properties, we bring together like-minded entrepreneurs who come from client-serving backgrounds and they want to make the shift from chasing clients to having large groups of clients and buyers chasing them.

What makes these events different from any other events you’ve seen for entrepreneurs is we bring in our “Sherpas” – 8 and 9 figure entrepreneurs who are there the full time, in the retreat room providing feedback. Think of the Sharks from “Shark Tank” except they only give out advice rather than investment.

Then we back up those live in-person retreats with ongoing, regular accountability and group coaching – so you are guaranteed to turn inspiration into action.

Check out Rise25 to learn more

Right Click here to download the MP3

Click here to subscribe via iTunes

Advertise on the Smart Business

The post 103: Hugh Culver | How to Become a Paid Speaker appeared first on Smart Business Revolution.

102: Michael Roderick | From High School Teacher to Broadway Producer in Two Years
43:37
2017-09-21 04:57:46 UTC 43:37
102: Michael Roderick | From High School Teacher to Broadway Producer in Two Years

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Michael Roderick went from being a high school English teacher to a Broadway Producer — in less than two years. Pretty impressive.

He was able to make that transition thanks to opportunities earned by stepping out of his comfort zone and building connections and relationships.

He’s now the founder of Small Pond Enterprises LLC, a consulting company and educational resource for solopreneurs, entrepreneurs, and intrapreneurs who want to accelerate the success of their business through relationship strategy.

Michael estimates that he makes over 1,000 connections each year and has created events such as Relationship Adventure Day and ConnectorCon to help with connections.

In this episode, we also talk about:

  • Why Michael Introduces “Have Nots” to a “Haves”
  • How Making Introductions Can Help Michael’s Bottom Line
  • What Michael Does During an Introduction That Helps Him Later
  • Relationship Adventure Day: A Scavenger Hunt on Steroids
  • Examples of Michael’s Successful Connections
  • Michael’s Story of Going from High School Teacher to Broadway Producer
  • How Bad Conferences Inspired Michael to Create ConnectorCon
  • Micheal’s ABCD Model for Categorizing People You Meet
  • Tips for Connecting with the Right Types of People
  • The One Thing Michael Challenges People to Do

Sponsor: Rise25

This episode is sponsored today by Rise25 Inner Circle… Rise25 is an exclusive, application-only accountability and group coaching program for professional services entrepreneurs running 6, 7 and 8 figure businesses who want to scale up, and shift from “one to one” client work to “one to many.”

Rise25 Inner Circle was founded by my business partner, Dr. Jeremy Weisz and myself… every few months, at 4-star luxury properties, we bring together like-minded entrepreneurs who come from client-serving backgrounds and they want to make the shift from chasing clients to having large groups of clients and buyers chasing them.

What makes these events different from any other events you’ve seen for entrepreneurs is we bring in our “Sherpas” – 8 and 9 figure entrepreneurs who are there the full time, in the retreat room providing feedback. Think of the Sharks from “Shark Tank” except they only give out advice rather than investment.

Then we back up those live in-person retreats with ongoing, regular accountability and group coaching – so you are guaranteed to turn inspiration into action.

Check out Rise25 to learn more

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101: Patrick Ewers | How to Network, Silicon Valley Style
36:27
2017-09-21 04:57:46 UTC 36:27
101: Patrick Ewers | How to Network, Silicon Valley Style

rsz_smart_business_revolution_podcast_artwork_redOriginally from Germany, Patrick moved to the United States and found his place in Silicon Valley.

After working with start-ups, and struggling with one of his own, he eventually landed a job with a brand new company he truly believed in. That company was LinkedIn.

He’s now the founder of Mindmaven, a company that teaches professionals to generate more opportunities by introducing experience-based relationship management, and he also offers coaching services.

He also offers coaching services and it’s not uncommon for his clients to see a 5X return on investment.

One thing we discuss in today’s episode that I was particularly excited to talk about was the method Patrick uses to consistently send follow-up emails after meeting with someone. He showed me this process in person when we first met and I was blown away by how simple and quick it is.

In this episode, we also talk about:

  • How Referrals Can Be Sexy
  • How working for LinkedIn Changed Patrick’s Life Ten Years Ago
  • How to Use LinkedIn Properly to “Win Business”
  • What Patrick Learned While Working for Reed Hoffman
  • Patrick’s Relationship Management Objective
  • How a Dinner Party Can Help Your Business
  • Patrick’s Involvement with Contactually
  • The Three Elements for Building Proper Networking Habits
  • How Patrick’s Follow-up Email Sequence Takes Less Than One Minute

Sponsor: Rise25

This episode is sponsored today by Rise25 Inner Circle… Rise25 is an exclusive, application-only accountability and group coaching program for professional services entrepreneurs running 6, 7 and 8 figure businesses who want to scale up, and shift from “one to one” client work to “one to many.”

Rise25 Inner Circle was founded by my business partner, Dr. Jeremy Weisz and myself… every few months, at 4-star luxury properties, we bring together like-minded entrepreneurs who come from client-serving backgrounds and they want to make the shift from chasing clients to having large groups of clients and buyers chasing them.

What makes these events different from any other events you’ve seen for entrepreneurs is we bring in our “Sherpas” – 8 and 9 figure entrepreneurs who are there the full time, in the retreat room providing feedback. Think of the Sharks from “Shark Tank” except they only give out advice rather than investment.

Then we back up those live in-person retreats with ongoing, regular accountability and group coaching – so you are guaranteed to turn inspiration into action.

Check out Rise25.com to learn more.

Right Click here to download the MP3

Click here to subscribe via iTunes

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The post 101: Patrick Ewers | How to Network, Silicon Valley Style appeared first on Smart Business Revolution.

100: The 10 Unusual Lessons I Learned From 100 Podcast Episodes
38:32
2017-09-21 04:57:46 UTC 38:32
100: The 10 Unusual Lessons I Learned From 100 Podcast Episodes

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Woo-hoo!

I’ve finally hit 100 episodes of the Smart Business Revolution podcast.

In this episode, I decided to mix things up a bit. I chose to do only my second “solo episode” without a guest.

And my first “solo episode” was actually episode #1. So it’s been awhile.

In this episode, I share the top 10 lessons I learned from completing 100 episodes of my podcast.

I think you’ll be surprised by a few of these lessons. And I hope after listening to this episode, I will leave you with an understanding that a podcast can function in a way perhaps you did not expect.

Enjoy!

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099: Caleb Bacon | How to Build Your Network in Hollywood
34:23
2017-09-21 04:57:46 UTC 34:23
099: Caleb Bacon | How to Build Your Network in Hollywood

HOW TO BUILD YOUR

 

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Have you ever wondered what it is like writing sitcoms in Hollywood?

In this episode, we’ll find out.

My guest is Caleb Bacon. Caleb Bacon is a Hollywood TV writer, the creator of the Man School podcast, and (spoiler alert) not related to Kevin Bacon.

But Caleb literally networked his way to a job writing for sitcoms in the entertainment industry in Hollywood.

He also shares a glimpse into what life is like working in the entertainment industry in Los Angeles.

Curious what it’s like working with Vince Vaughn?

Ever wondered what it’s like working a job where you don’t have to wear pants?

You’ll find out in this episode of the Smart Business Revolution podcast.

He is definitely one amusing guy.

Enjoy!

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098: Dorie Clark | How to Become a Recognized Expert
33:33
2017-09-21 04:57:46 UTC 33:33
098: Dorie Clark | How to Become a Recognized Expert

RecognizedExpert

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Dorie is an author, former Presidential campaign spokesperson, former journalist and a speaker.

I’ve had Dorie on this podcast before to talk about her previous book, Reinventing You

Now I am welcoming her back and we talk about her latest book Stand Out: How to Find Your Breakthrough Idea and Build a Following Around It.

Dorie has become a good friend and a collaborator and she was incredibly kind to profile me in the new book Stand Out alongside authors Dan Pink, David Allen, Robert Cialdini, and the celebrity chef Rachel Ray – people who have much bigger platforms than my own.

So it was an honor just to be mentioned alongside these very successful influencers.

In this interview, we talk about:

  • What Dorie learned interviewing 50 thought leaders
  • Some of the myths about building your reputation as an expert
  • The importance of asking different questions and being open to questioning assumptions
  • The myth of becoming an “overnight success”
  • How to “find your big idea” that can rocket you to a larger reputation in your field.
  • How to distinguish yourself with a niche strategy using a thinly sliced area of focus.

Go grab a copy of Dorie’s book – I highly recommend it.

Enjoy!

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097: Chris Johnson | How to Sell Very Expensive Products
56:58
2017-09-21 04:57:46 UTC 56:58
097: Chris Johnson | How to Sell Very Expensive Products

How to sell - Chris J

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Chris is the owner of a video production company called Simplifilm.

But it’s not just any old video production company; they produce book trailers for business book authors… and they charge a LOT of money for those book trailers

Chris and his company have actually worked with some of the biggest business book authors including Arianna Huffington, Robert Greene, Ryan Holiday and Seth Godin.

In this interview, we cover a lot of ground including:

  • Chris’s “3 bucket system” for building relationships – and how he uses it to get more clients for his business
  • How to sell very expensive, high level packages – we even did a little role play where I pretended to be an author calling him to inquire about buying a video
  • How to avoid the commodity trap when your business sells a product or service with a lot of competition
  • And even what Chris learned breaking up with his business partner, and how you can avoid that happening to you

 

Enjoy!

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096: Ann Rea | From Cubicle Grind to Thriving Artist
52:50
2017-09-21 04:57:46 UTC 52:50
096: Ann Rea | From Cubicle Grind to Thriving Artist

From Cubicle Grind

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We’ve all heard of the starving artist.

Well, Ann Rea is on a mission to abolish  starving artists.

She wants to help artists and creatives of all stripes to NOT starve.

She is an artist who knows how to sell art.

But she didn’t always.

In fact, for many years she struggled – she even gave up her dream of being a working artist, during a very dark period of her life when she was working in a cubicle in a corporate job…

Then she decided to break out of that rut and she was able to kickstart a thriving new career as an artist and she did it with … you guessed it … one relationship… a very influential and successful working artist who Ann reached out to, connected with, and who became her mentor.

She’ll share that story in this episode.

We’ve got a lot of gems in this one about the mindset behind being someone who creates art – whatever kind of art you may create – without selling out and how to make a good living doing it.

Enjoy!

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095: Jeffrey Hayzlett of C-Suite | How to Build a New Network
39:08
2017-09-21 04:57:46 UTC 39:08
095: Jeffrey Hayzlett of C-Suite | How to Build a New Network

How to build a network

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Few people know what it’s like inside the mind of top level executives better than my guest on this episode.

Jeffrey Hayzlett is a marketing, business, and public relations expert.

He was formerly the Chief Marketing Officer of the Eastman Kodak Company and is the cofounder of the C-Suite Network aimed at C-level executives – like CEOs, CFOs, CMOs.

The company has a number of projects, including C-Suite TV, C-Suite Radio, C-Suite Academy – an online education platform, and more.

He’s also the author of a number of books, most recently Think Big, Act Bigger.

Jeffrey is going to give us a glimpse into the mindset of highly successful executives and in particular the types of daily practices, habits and activities that you should be engaging in if you want to operate at that level.

You’ll see in this interview that Jeffrey is a proficient networker. He loves making introductions and he continues to work at meeting people, even though he has a lot of people who are working to connect with him.

Enjoy!

Resources from this Episode:

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094: Scott Oldford of Infinitus | How to Create a 7-Figure Business by Age 18
42:43
2017-09-21 04:57:46 UTC 42:43
094: Scott Oldford of Infinitus | How to Create a 7-Figure Business by Age 18

How to create - 3

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I think back to when I was 17, 18 years old. I didn’t know what I was doing back then.

I think I was making like $1.25 an hour working slave labor in the back of a warehouse. And I thought that was a good deal.

Now my guest on this episode? He built a 7 figure business by 18 years old.

I don’t know what I would have done with all that money.

Personally, I probably would have blown that money on baseball cards or video games.

But not Scott. Since that point, Scott has actually built numerous other seven-figure businesses. And now here comes the kicker: he’s only in his early 20s.

He’s just getting started folks.

His most recent business is called Infinitus – they  help entrepreneurs grow their businesses by generating a sustainable flow of qualified leads using Online Marketing Funnels.

In this episode, Scott tells his story – from making over $1 million by age 18, to losing it all by 21, and then building it all back up again.

This episode is brought to you by my friends over at The Art of Charm podcast.

The Art of Charm is an iTunes Top 50 podcast overall – one of the few truly independent podcasts in that top 50.

AoC is packed with ideas and strategies from how to work better to how be a better human – they’ve covered topics like: how to create confidence; how to get people to like & trust you; productivity; networking and time-management.

Their episodes are both fun and educational at the same time – not stuffy college professor textbook stuff.

Go to TheArtofCharm.com or find The Art of Charm in iTunes or Stitcher or your favorite podcasting app. I love listening to the show and you should give it a try – I think you will as well.

Enjoy!

Resources from this Episode:

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The post 094: Scott Oldford of Infinitus | How to Create a 7-Figure Business by Age 18 appeared first on Smart Business Revolution.

093: Grant Baldwin | How to Get Booked and Paid as a Professional Speaker
49:59
2017-09-21 04:57:46 UTC 49:59
093: Grant Baldwin | How to Get Booked and Paid as a Professional Speaker

FAIRY

Grant Baldwin began his career as a youth pastor.

When his wife was 5 months pregnant with their first daughter, he decided to quit his job.

After he quit, he spent months trying to figure out what he wanted to do next for a career.

After several months, he decided, “Hey, I’ve figured it out! I’m going to be a professional speaker.”

So it was a long road but today he does quite well as a speaker, bringing in multiple six figures a year speaking to different audiences ranging from a few hundred to many thousand.

He’s also the host of a podcast called “How Did You Get Into That?” – where he asks guests how they got into the link of work they are in. And he’s been kind enough to have me on that podcast.

Now because of his successful speaking business he’s had a lot of aspiring speakers coming to him and asking for advice on how to get paid speaking gigs. So in this episode we talk all about the business of speaking, including how you can get gigs as a speaker even if you just want to do a little speaking on the side.

 rsz_smart_business_revolution_podcast_artwork_redThis episode is brought to you by my friends over at The Art of Charm podcast.

The Art of Charm is an iTunes Top 50 podcast overall – one of the few truly independent podcasts in that top 50.

Go to TheArtofCharm.com or find The Art of Charm in iTunes or Stitcher or your favorite podcasting app. I love listening to the show and you should give it a try – I think you will as well.

Enjoy!

Resources from this Episode:

Right Click here to download the MP3

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092: Bob Burg | How to Be a Giver
43:53
2017-09-21 04:57:46 UTC 43:53
092: Bob Burg | How to Be a Giver

I have a quick question – can you really, systematically get the results you want from others – even if they initially disagree with you or have position that is diametrically opposed to yours – while making them feel genuinely good about themselves, about the process, and about you?

Our guest on this podcast says, “Absolutely!”  And he’ll explain how.

Bob Burg is an author and a popular speaker at corporate conferences and entrepreneurial events. He regularly addresses audiences ranging in size from 50 to 16,000 – and he has shared platforms with notables including today’s top thought leaders, broadcast personalities, Olympic athletes and political leaders including a former United States President.

Although for years he was best known for his book Endless Referrals (referral link), over the past few years it’s his book The Go-Giver (coauthored with John David Mann) that has really become what he’s most well known for.

The book was a Wall Street Journal Bestseller and it has been translated into 21 languages.

Now his most recent book is Adversaries into Allies: Win People Over Without Manipulation or Coercion.  We’re dive into that book in this interview.

On a personal note – Bob really walks his walk.  At the beginning of 2015, I published an article in Forbes.com titled the 25 Professional Networking Experts to follow in 2015. It got a bit of attention at the time, and I included Bob among that list.

A few days after that list came out, I received a handwritten note in the mail from Bob thanking me for including him, and a few weeks after that, he sent me a copy of his book.

So in spite of all his success, he still takes the time to engage in personal touches like handwritten notes.

rsz_smart_business_revolution_podcast_artwork_red

This episode is brought to you by my friends over at The Art of Charm podcast.

The Art of Charm is an iTunes Top 50 podcast overall – one of the few truly independent podcasts in that top 50.

AoC is packed with ideas and strategies from how to work better to how be a better human – they’ve covered topics like: how to create confidence; how to get people to like & trust you; productivity; networking and time-management.

Their episodes are both fun and educational at the same time – not stuffy college professor textbook stuff.

Go to TheArtofCharm.com or find The Art of Charm in iTunes or Stitcher or your favorite podcasting app. I love listening to the show and you should give it a try – I think you will as well.

Enjoy!

Right Click here to download the MP3

Click here to subscribe via iTunes

Advertise on the Smart Business Revolution podcast

Transcript of Interview:


John Corcoran:	There it is.  Okay.  All right, I’m speaking with Bob Burg, and Bob, your most recent book is Adversaries Into Allies, and so I want to just ask you, right at the outset, so are you suggesting that it’s possible for all of us to turn people who are enemies into our friends and supporters?  Because frankly, I’ve got to be honest, that sounds a little bit nuts.  I mean I feel like I’m an amenable guy, but I’ve had people that you just don’t see eye to eye with throughout life, and I can’t imagine how you can take people who you just frankly don’t get along with and turn them into supporters.  So tell me, how is this even possible?

Bob Burg:	Well, I think there’s a time and place for everything, and not everyone is supposed to necessarily be our ally.  Hopefully we can respectfully disagree with people if we have to.  But no, this is really meant for the situations where it’s someone who, for whatever reason, happens to be standing in the way of your sense of happiness, whether it’s business, personal, what have you.  And that there is a way that you can be able to turn that potential adversary or current adversary into an ally.  But again, as you say, you make a very valid point.  It’s not going to happen with everyone.

John Corcoran:	Yeah.  And actually kind of a related question to that is, you know, it’s a big world, right?  We’ve got billions of people here, and so why devote the mental energy to trying to convert someone who’s an adversary into an ally?  I mean in today’s day and age, can’t we just disregard them or choose to live our life in a different way?  I mean I realize everyone has different circumstances.  Maybe you work in a job and you’ve got an adversary in your own organization.  But why bother turning our adversaries into allies?

Bob Burg:	Well, it’s not the billions of people out there that we’re looking to do that with.  First of all, most of them aren’t our adversaries.  Most of them are people we’re never going to meet.  And it’s only the people who there is a reason for turning them into an ally, that’s the one.  Hey, it might be that customer service representative, John, who, if you’re like I am, you threw away your receipt or you lost your receipt and you have to return something, and you see a big sign over their desk that says “Absolutely positively no returns without receipts.”  And this person, he might be a nice guy or nice woman, but they’re not equipped to know to deal with someone so that it works out for everyone involved.

	So you do need to be able to work with this person in a way that you attain the satisfaction you want, and at the same time, you help that person feel good about themselves, and that’s going to increase your odds – first it’s the right way to be, but it’s also going to increase your odds of this person going out of their way for you.  It might be the boss you need to ask for a raise, and this boss might be a nice person.  But they’re not necessarily going to give you a raise because you need the money.  It might be it’s when you’re in a selling situation, and the prospective buyer might be a nice person, but they’re not going to buy from you unless they feel there is sufficient value in doing so, and that’s the only reason they should buy from you.

	So we need to – but here’s the interesting thing.  There was a baseball player named Sadaharu Oh.  He was the all-time leading home run hitter, not only in Japanese professional baseball, but all time.  More than Babe Ruth, more home runs than Hank Aaron, more home runs than Barry Bonds.  And he had a great saying.  I just thought this was so profound.  He said, “I never saw the opposing pitcher as my adversary, but rather as my partner in hitting home runs.”  And to me, the interesting thing – it’s not that the opposing pitcher saw himself as his partner in hitting home runs, but Sadaharu Oh saw it that way.  

	In that same way, when we can take a person who, for whatever reason, might be difficult or might be adversarial or might be, for whatever reason, standing in our way, and be able to win them over and be able to help them come around to being part of the solution rather than being part of the problem, our level of success is going to be much higher.

John Corcoran:	So the first thing that comes to mind in the scenarios you’ve laid out there – you mentioned a customer service representative where you’re trying to maybe get a refund and you don’t have your receipt, and you’re trying to get a little bit of flexibility around the policies that they have written on the wall.  Or you’re asking a boss for a raise.  The first thing that comes to mind is our own emotions.  Because we tend to get very emotional about trying to persuade that person to do what it is we want to do.  Or maybe that person’s being kind of rude, and so we get upset that they’re being rude.  So how do you deal with your own individual, personal emotions?

Bob Burg:	Oh, that’s such a great question.  And that’s the first principle of ultimate influence that we go through, is control your own emotions.  Early in the book, I quote a saying from the sages who asked, “Who is a mighty person?”  And they answered, “That person who can control their own emotions and make of an enemy a friend.”  So why is that so important?  Why is it so difficult to control our emotions?  Because we’re human beings.  As human beings, we are emotional creatures.  We like to think we’re logical, and to a certain extent, of course, we are.  But we’re pretty emotion-driven.  We make major decisions based on emotion, and then we back up those decisions with logic.

	We rationalize, which simply means we tell ourselves rational lies.  And we do that in order to justify that emotion-based decision we just made that we know we shouldn’t have made.  Well, emotions can also get in the way when, as you say, you have a situation, an adversarial situation, and you let your buttons get pushed by something that person says or does, consciously or unconsciously they do.  They may not be trying to.  And you let yourself become angry, mad, sad, helpless, depressed, what have you.  Well, when our emotions control us like that, not only can we not be part of the solution, we’re so wrapped up in the problem that nothing good is going to happen out of that.

	Now with that in mind, I’m not in way saying that we should forego our emotions.  As human beings, we are emotional creatures.  So foregoing our emotions, trying to deny our emotions would be absolutely illogical.  Okay?  So no, we don’t deny – our emotions are a great part of our lives.  They bring us joy.  They bring us pleasure.  They make life happy and meaningful.  It’s that we need to simply be in control of our emotions.  They need to be working for us, rather than being our master.  One of my great friends and mentors, Dande Scumachi – I love what she says.  She says, “By all means, take your emotions along for the ride, but make sure you are driving the car.”

	And I think that’s really what it’s about, John.  As long as we are in control of our emotions, as opposed to they being in control of us, now we’re acting out of strength and consciousness, as opposed to being reactionary.

John Corcoran:	So it sounds like in terms of how to control our emotions, it’s about being mindful, being aware of our emotions, the role that they play, being a little more Zen, maybe some deep breathing techniques.  I can think of myself negotiating to buy a car in the past.  Sometimes I get emotional about the games that a car buyer might – or a car seller might play, and just getting really upset in the process.  And I know that those emotions get in the way.  So what advice do you have for people for controlling their emotions?

Bob Burg:	Well, the first is just by understanding that it’s an issue.  Because if someone doesn’t realize they have an issue with that, that it is an issue, that it’s something that’s holding them back, they’re never going to take the steps to work on it and improve on it.  So once they understand it’s an issue, now they can come up with a game plan.  And one of the best things you can do – and let’s say for example that – not you, but one has an anger issue, has an anger problem.  And they just really – when somebody says or does something that pushes their buttons, they just jump down that person’s throat, and they realize it’s not a good way to do business, it’s not a good way to have relationships, to live life.

	It’s keeping them from being as effective as they could be.  So the first thing after understanding it is saying, okay, let’s take situations – let’s actually rehearse – let’s in our mind’s eye, look at situations that are probably going to come up because they have before, probably will again.  You probably even know the people they will come up with.  But even if not, that’s okay.  And imagine that happening.  Imagine that happening, and instead of you reacting to this situation and to this person, see yourself just handling it beautifully.  

	See yourself being calm, not interrupting that person, listening to that person, and coming back, responding with the perfect language, which we’ll talk about later on as we get into communicating with tact and empathy.  And just handling it beautifully and seeing it work out well.  Now practice that like an astronaut would practice a mission.  You know how they simulate missions hundreds of times before they actually go up in space, so that when they’re finally up in space and something happens, they’re not caught by surprise.  They’ve been there.  They’ve done that.  They know what to do. 

	Now is it the exact same?  Seeing it in your mind and practicing it as it is in real life?  Not exactly the same, but close enough.  We know that the subconscious cannot tell the difference between something that is real, that has happened, and something that has been consciously suggested.  So yes, it absolutely does work.  Now the next time this happens, and you do handle it just fantastically, take pleasure in that.  And understand that if you’ve done it once, you can do it every time.  However, know that as a human being, you won’t do it correctly every time.  You will make mistakes.  You’ll mess up.  We all do.

	And when that happens, you can feel a little bad about it if you want, but don’t put yourself in a whole guilt trip because again, you’re a human being, a growing, learning organism that’s looking to improve, and will get better, will do it better the next time.

John Corcoran:	That’s great advice.  And I remember when I was in law school, we took a negotiation class, and the way you describe this, it’s such an important issue, is really almost something that should be taught in schools so that people know how to control their emotions because they can have such a big impact on your career, on your business, absolutely.  So let’s move on to the next principle of ultimate influence, which is understanding the clash of belief systems.  And sometimes, the other person has a conscious or unconscious set of beliefs, experiences, ideas, and you disagree or you don’t see eye to eye.  Tell me about this principle.

Bob Burg:	And the biggest challenge is not even knowing about that difference.  What is a belief?  Well, I define a belief as a subjective truth.  In other words, it’s the truth as you or as I understand the truth to be, which means it’s not necessarily the truth.  It is our truth.  Now sometimes our truth and the truth are the same, but many times, not.  And we don’t even know this because we all as individuals, we see the world through a certain lens, a paradigm, and model.  Really it’s an unconscious operating system.  We don’t even know it’s running us.  This is what I call the belief system.  

	And the belief system is really a combination of upbringing, environment, schooling, news media, television shows, movies, popular culture, cultural mores, everything we touch, taste, hear, see, smell – every experience that comes into our life is part of our belief system.  However, John, for most of – I would say all of us – by the time we’re little more than toddlers, our basic belief system is pretty much established.  And everything we experience after that is simply added on to that basic premise.  

	So people grow up, they live their lives, not even understanding that everything they think, everything they feel, everything they say, everything they do is based on this belief system or operating system that they don’t even know they have.  Now take it a step further.  This person with whom you are about to have this interaction, they’re coming from their own belief system, and they’re not any more conscious of it than we are of ours.  Right?

John Corcoran:	No wonder we have – negotiations can just break down.

Bob Burg:	Right.  Exactly.  And as human beings, we all tend to think – we all believe that everyone else pretty much sees the world the same basic way as we do.  I mean how could it be any different?  It’s all we know.  This is why you’ll hear people say things like, “Oh, everybody feels that way.  Or nobody likes that.”  Or you’ve probably heard someone say – maybe you’ve said – I know I have far too many times, “I would never treat someone that way.”  Right?  Well we wouldn’t if it’s not congruent with our belief system.  But it is with theirs.

	So what we need to do is not so much understand that other person’s belief system – they probably don’t understand their own belief system – we simply need to come to grips with the fact that they have a different belief system than we do.  And as long as we understand that and respect that, now we can create the context of a win-win situation.

John Corcoran:	Okay, great.  I love that.  So the next point in your five different principles of ultimate influence is one that I really like, acknowledging their ego.  Because so often you have – let’s say you’re dealing with someone who is a customer service representative, and maybe they don’t like their job too much.  You know, maybe this is their little area of power that they exercise, right?

Bob Burg:	That’s right.

John Corcoran:	And so it’s important to acknowledge that they get some pride.  Perhaps they have some ego in the role that they play, and belittling them or talking down to them is not going to help you, correct?

Bob Burg:	Oh, absolutely, absolutely.  And they go through this all the time.  Someone especially who’s maybe not even treated particularly well in their personal life, who now has this bit of power, hey, they can make your life miserable.  And so we need to – not just because we want to be able to attain satisfaction, it’s just the right way to be, to treat people well.  And we need to understand that they do have an ego and we have an ego.  And it’s a very powerful force.  Ego itself is neither good nor bad.  It just is.  I mean the ego is literally the I, it’s that sense of ourself that knows we’re a unique individual.

	And like emotions, when we’re in control of that ego, great things can happen, and we can – it’s when the ego begins to take over.  And often, if you’re in a situation with someone, where they’re saying or doing things that are very counterproductive, that are hurtful to themselves, as well as everyone else, there’s a good chance that their ego has taken over and taken control.  And we need to be able to acknowledge that.  I really believe that 90 percent of being able to move a person to a particular way of thinking or doing or acting, is how you make them feel about themselves.

	If people feel good about themselves and good about you, they’re much more likely to commit and agree with your ideas.  If they feel lousy about themselves, and they associate that with you, what do you expect?  In so many people you just see this all the time, that they just don’t acknowledge that person’s ego.  They just don’t treat that person with a genuine, authentic respect.

John Corcoran:	So how do you deal with someone who’s got a hyper-inflated sense of ego?

Bob Burg:	The key is that you need to be able to establish a sense of trust with them.  One of the underlying principles, I think, in every book I’ve written, is the saying, “All things being equal, people will do business with and refer business to those people they know, like and trust.”  And trust is such a vital important part of the influence process because it’s only when someone trusts that you have their best interests at heart, are they likely to let go of that defensiveness and that ego.  So when someone’s ego is getting away from them and they have a sense – and they don’t have any trust in you, and you say, “Hey, you know, I really think you’re letting your ego get the best” – oh – right?

	But if they have some trust in you and know, then you can say something in a kind and tactful way such as, “May I share something with you that I think might be helpful?” when they say – yeah – and you say, “You know, I have a lot of respect for you and your acumen in business and what you do.  It seems a little bit – and it could just be me” – this is an I message and it could just be me – “That you might be letting some of your personal feelings” – I wouldn’t say ego – “Some of your personal feelings possibly get in the way of making a decision that might be more constructive.”

John Corcoran:	I like the way you phrased that.

Bob Burg:	Yeah, so now we’re just – but there’s got to be that trust, and that’s why it’s so important to be able to really have a genuine – I would say the best person I’ve ever seen when it came to people skills ever, is my dad.  And to me, his most powerful people skill was a genuine and authentic interest in bringing value to others.  In helping other people feel genuinely good about themselves.

John Corcoran:	Next point.  I like this one as well.  Set the proper frame, but I want you to explain what you mean by this principle.  Because I have a couple different ideas about what it might mean, but I want to hear your words first.

Bob Burg:	Sure.  That’s always great to ask – that’s a perfect influence principle, to ask someone to explain what they mean.  Because again, definitions differ.  And I define a frame as the foundation from which everything else evolves.  Quick example from the book was the time I was in a Dunkin’ Donuts store, and there was a little boy, probably 2, 2 ½, 3 years old, who was running around the store.  And his parents called him over to their table, and as he began to walk toward them, he took a spill on the floor.  He slipped, he fell.  He didn’t hurt himself.  He didn’t fall hard, but you could tell by the look on his face he was surprised.  He was shocked.  He knew that wasn’t supposed to happen.

	So immediately he looked at his mom and dad to find out, okay, what’s the interpretation here?  What did that just really mean?  And I truly, truly believed, John, that had his parents gotten panicky and upset, you know, “Oh no, are you okay?” he would have started to cry.  But the mom and dad just handled it beautifully.  They applauded and they smiled and they laughed, and they said, “Oh, how fun.  What a good trick that was,” and immediately, he began to laugh.  What the parents did is they created a positive frame from which he could operate.

	And we can do that whenever we meet someone new, whether it’s through a genuine smile or the words we use or our open body language or whatever.  What’s key is to be able to reframe someone else’s already negative frame.  Can I give you a quick example?

John Corcoran:	Yeah, absolutely.  

Bob Burg:	Let’s say you need to speak to a supervisor because the person at the desk wasn’t able to get you what you needed, and of course, you were polite, respectful, but he goes back and says, “There’s a customer that needs to talk to you,” and this manager or supervisor, been in their business ten years, they hate dealing with people.  They think everyone’s a complaining person.  Typically when they go out, that person’s ready to jump down their throat.  So they go out there with their game face on.  I mean they have to be polite, but they’re ready to quote the rule book and not get you want you want, maybe even in a passive-aggressive type of way.

	But when you go out there, rather than being that person who says, “I can’t believe [inaudible] [00:20:40].  I’ve been a customer” – right?  Instead you have a genuine smile, your hand’s outstretched, you step forward to them, and you say, “Hi, Mr. Jones.  Bob Burg.  Thank you so much for taking a moment of your time.  I know you’re very busy.”  Boom, you’ve just reset the frame from being adversarial to being one of two allies who are simply looking for a good outcome.  And you become – you’re the type of person who’s a pleasure for this person to work with, and the type of person they want to please.  So you reframed the situation. 

John Corcoran:	Okay, so here’s what came to mind when I was thinking that setting the proper frame was the idea of price anchoring, which was a concept that I didn’t really understand until a couple of years ago, and then I started to understand it better.  And it’s basically the idea of setting a price and then creating another price that’s lower or higher, depending on what you’re trying to negotiate.  So let’s say that you’re a service provider and you say, “Well you know, I would normally charge $4,000 for this, but you know, because I’d really like to work with you, I’ll charge $2,000.”

	And I never understood how psychologically, when we hear that first number, we think, oh, okay, that’s the value.  And then when you hear the lower number, you think, oh, well that sounds like a really good deal.  It’s a lot different than if someone were to say, “Price for you, $2,000.”  Completely different.  But I think what you’re describing with setting the proper frame is it’s kind of like the relationship.  It’s the human version of that.  It’s saying, this is where we’re going to be.  Instead of an angry person, I’m going to be a happy person, and we’re going to start from there.

	Is that too a too far afield analogy?

Bob Burg:	No, it’s a great analogy.  And again, when you think about a frame being the basic foundation, that’s the same as what you talked about with the pricing frame.  It’s the same when there’s a political argument – and I know you have a long career in politics as a writer.  You’ve written for President Clinton and former governor of California.  And so you know that when you think of it, if you can set the proper frame, everything after that comes easy.  If there’s an argument –

John Corcoran:	I think we lost you, Bob.  It froze up.  Are you there, Bob?

Bob Burg: 	Right, because then I [inaudible] [00:00:01] back that it was fine, that everything’s a frame, and then I started to talk about politics, ow when you write a speech, the frame is everything because if you can get the other side, arguing within your frame, that sort of things.

John Corcoran:	And I did want to ask about politics, so I’ll get to that.  Yeah, yeah, definitely.  Okay, all right, so we’ll pick back up.  3, 2, 1.  Okay, so I did want to ask you, Bob, about one related concept, I think.  When I heard the principle, set the proper frame, what I was thinking, I was thinking of this idea of price anchoring, which was something that I didn’t completely understand until a couple years ago.  It’s basically the idea of, if you set a price, people will keep that price in their mind, and if you quote a separate price, then it will look like either a bargain or more expensive, based on the price they have in their mind.

	So let’s say that you’re a service provider, and you say, “You know what?  I would normally charge $4,000 for this, but because I want to work with you, I’ll charge you $2,000.”  And they’re thinking, wow, that’s a really good deal because they were thinking it was $4,000.  So it sounds like what you’re talking about with the frame, it’s kind of the human or the people version of that.  It’s saying, okay, I’m going to set this particular foundation, and I’m going to be happy instead of angry.  Does that make sense?  Or am I completely far afield here?

Bob Burg:	No, it makes a lot of sense because they’re just simply different ways to apply the concept of a frame.  You certainly have a lot of experience in politics, having been a writer for President Clinton and for a former governor of California, and you know that when you are writing a speech, if you can frame it in such a way so that the opposition would, when they respond, have to work within the frame that you set, you’re 80 percent there to winning the situation, if you will.  The person who sets the frame or the person who buys into someone else’s frame, that’s how it goes.  That’s why one of the things we talk about is make sure you don’t buy into someone else’s frame.

	Make sure you always question your premises in their premises.  Let me give you an example or a frame.  I remember when, as a kid, a common question was, “When you grow up, do you want to be wealthy or happy?”  Now what’s the frame there?  The frame is you can be one or the other, but not both.  Now a kid usually isn’t going to question the premise there, but if they were going to, it would be, they would ask, “Well, why does it have to be one or the other?  Can’t I be both?”  And it’s the same when someone, as an adult, presents you with a choice of two things, whether it’s philosophy or whether it’s to make an appointment or whether it’s this or a political idea.  

	You always want to ask the question of yourself, why does it have be this way?  And you can also politely and respectfully ask them, “Why would it be only those two choices?  On what do you base that?  Where did you come up with that information?”  So the key is don’t fall victim to someone else setting a frame.

John Corcoran:	This is so brilliant because you see people make this mistake frequently, where someone else sets the frame, and then they fall into the trap, where they have that discussion and they don’t realize that they need to actually move the discussion to another place.  And we could come up with a zillion different examples from politics, absolutely.  Because that’s what it’s all about.  I mean two different political leaders running for one office.  They set different frames and they try and have the discussion on their own territory.

Bob Burg:	On their own – right.  Exactly.

John Corcoran:	Yeah, but the final point, the fifth point that you have, is communicating with tact and empathy, which is something that honestly, some people struggle with.  How do you be more tactful and how do you have empathy for the person that you’re trying to turn into an ally?

Bob Burg:	Sure.  Well, let’s look at tact.  What is tact?  My dad has always defined tact as the language of strength.  And when I think of tact and being tactful, you know what comes to mind first, is when we need to correct someone, or we need to critique someone, or when we need to – dare I be a bit politically incorrect and say constructively criticize someone – not that we ever want to do that.  Of course we don’t.  

	But we’re talking about the real world, not a fantasy world where everything’s perfect and everyone does the right thing and says the right – there are times we need to be able to teach, John, but we need to do so in such a way that not only is that other person not defensive toward us and resistant to our ideas, but they are open to us and they’re more accepting of our ideas.  Tact allows us to do this.  And when you think of empathy, empathy is simply the identification with or the vicarious experiencing of another person’s feelings.

	It means that we might – we may or may not know exactly how they feel because we all come from our own different experiences and belief systems, but we can certainly communicate that we understand they’re feeling something, and that something is causing them distress.  So when we speak tactfully and kindly and respectfully, we’re able to attain the results we want in a way that serves everyone.  Can I give you a quick example?

John Corcoran:	Absolutely.

Bob Burg:	Let’s say that someone asks you to serve on a committee, and you don’t want to.  It doesn’t really matter why, for whatever reasons you have, it’s not something you want to do, and that’s fine.  You shouldn’t do it unless there’s a compelling moral reason to do it, probably it’s not something you should do.  We need to be able to say no to most things so that we can say yes to the things that we should say yes to.  But we’ve been taught basically to say no in a couple of different ways.  The first way has become very fashionable in the last few years.  You hear it all the time.  And that is, “No is a complete sentence.  Or just tell people no, and that’s their problem.”

	So people hear that at seminars or see it on TV, and they get all empowered.  “Yeah, that’s what I’m going to do.  Just tell people no.”  And I cringe because I think, really?  Is that what you’re going to do?  Just rudely tell someone no.  First of all, it’s rude.  Secondly, you’re probably turning a current ally into a potential adversary.  They’re never going to ask you to do something again.  You’re losing out on potential opportunities in the future.  But the biggest reason to not say no like that is because it’s simply incongruent with your values of treating people with kindness and respect.

	So I don’t think that’s a good way, a productive way, a proper way to say no.

John Corcoran:	So what’s a better way?  Especially if it’s something that you really don’t want to do?

Bob Burg:	Well, and there’s one more kind of negative way too, and that is to make an excuse.  Well, I would, but I don’t have the time.  The challenge is, of course, you really do have the time.  What you don’t have is the desire.  You don’t [inaudible] [00:07:10].  And as human beings, we find the time to do what we want.  So it’s kind of a little bit of a fib, and when that person says to you in a compelling way, “Well, time’s not going to be an issue because” – and they explain it perfectly, well now you either have to admit that you really were kind of not telling the truth because you don’t want to do it.  They’re going to not have respect for you.  You’re going to feel badly about it.  

	Or to save face, what do you have to do?  You take the assignment that you don’t want to take, and that really doesn’t work out well.  So now let’s look at how we can do in such a way that respects our boundaries, but also respects and honors the other person.

John Corcoran:	I love this too because Bob, you personally, I’m sure, get doubtless requests for your time, for your energy, to contribute to different projects, and so I’d love to know how you deal with these things, these requests.

Bob Burg:	Well, and I’m sure you do as well.  Probably most of the people listening to this.  So here’s the way to do it.  It’s very simple and actually very easy.  You simply say, “Thank you so much for asking.  While it’s not something I’d like to do, please know how very honored I am to be asked.”

John Corcoran:	Oh, that sounds great.

Bob Burg:	Now what you’ve done is you’ve respectfully and gracefully – you’ve thanked them.  You’ve let them know that it’s not something you choose to do, that it’s not something that you want to do.  You didn’t make an excuse though, so you didn’t give them something to hang on to and answer.  You didn’t have to justify anything.  But you let them know that you were honored to be asked.  Basically what you told them was, no, it’s not something I want to do, but hey, I really appreciate being asked.  

	And if the person tries one time to overcome that – you know, people will sometimes, especially if you’ve trained people to believe that you can be bullied or manipulated in some way, they might say, “Oh, come on.  But we really” – you simply would, with a very pleasant smile, no emotion, other than a sense of kindness, you wait until they finish, and then you simply say, “Oh, again, I appreciate the offer.  It’s not something I choose to do.  But again, thank you so much.  Please know how honored I am to be asked.”  Boom.  They will get the message right there.  From then on, they can always ask.  There’s nothing wrong with asking.  But when you say no, it simply means no. 

John Corcoran:	So two things.  One, do you worry that by saying it’s not something I want to do right now, that that person’s going to be offended, that you don’t want to do it with them?  Or two, do you worry that they’re going to view you as insincere because you have responded by saying, oh, you know, all these extra verbiage of I’d really love to do it with you, but I can’t because I’m focusing on other things.

Bob Burg:	Yeah, well let’s look at the language.  First remember I didn’t really say want.  I just said, “Well, it’s not something that I’d like to do,” or you could say, “That I choose to do,” which is a little bit – I think a little softer than I don’t want to do it.  So it’s the way we say it too.  But it’s also that extra verbiage.  And you’re not making excuses.  You’re not saying it’s something I don’t want to do right now.  You’re not making any excuses or [inaudible] [00:10:10].  You’re simply letting the person know it’s not something you’d like to do, not something – you can say not something I’m interested in pursuing.  

	But it’s really the way you say it.  But I’ll tell you, in all the time that I’ve utilized this, both in emails and in person, and the many people I’ve taught to do the same, it absolutely works so very well.  And I’ve had people compliment me on the way that I’ve turned them down.  So no, it works.

John Corcoran:	I’m transcribing what you said because I’m going to be using this in the future.  One thing that I often say is, “You know, I’ve got a variety of different projects that I’m focusing on right now, so I don’t have the bandwidth to work on it at this time.”  Is that making an excuse though?

Bob Burg:	No, if that works for you and it’s congruent with how you would communicate and it makes the point, then it’s fine.  The only thing is you’re leaving yourself open to that person saying –

John Corcoran:	When they come back two months later, right.

Bob Burg:	Exactly.  And to me, I don’t want to have to keep going back and forth again.  I want to kind of handle it right there, and my feeling is, as long as you handle it in a kind, tactful way, they’re going to know that you are basically saying no.  But you’re doing it in a way that they can’t possibly be offended, unless they really want to be offended, and then that’s going to happen, I would imagine, from time to time because there’s all sorts of people in the world.  There’s billions of people in the world, so someone – but no, by and large, this really – that exact language really works.

John Corcoran:	That’s excellent.  Okay, I want – a couple of quick scenarios that maybe you can play out for us.  One is let’s say you want to buy a product, and it’s a little bit too expensive.  It’s more than you want to pay.  You don’t want to pay that much.  How do you work with the salesperson without alienating them?  How do you get them to budget a little bit on the price?

Bob Burg:	Uh-huh.  And again, remember throughout the whole buying process you’ve been very polite and kind and so forth, and you’ve shown great respect for this person.  So there’s already that sense that they’re liking and trusting you.  What you would say in that case is, “You know, Dave,” – or Patricia – “First I thank you for all the time you’ve invested in helping me.  As much as I love the idea of doing business with you right now, I’m afraid at this price point, I can’t justify going ahead and making the purchase.”  So when you say I can’t justify, that’s an I message, so it puts the onus – you’re not insulting them.  

	You’re not saying, “Hey, with what you’re charging” – you know?  “I can’t justify making the decision to go ahead.” 

John Corcoran:	That’s good.

Bob Burg:	So now – right – and now you don’t say anything, and wait to see if they will say, “Well, what if we could” – and so forth.  But if they don’t say anything, and you really, really would like this product, but you do need it at a lower price, wait to see if they say anything, and if they don’t, you might say, “Is there anything you could do in terms of the price to bring it down so it’s more affordable?”  Or bring it down a bit.

John Corcoran:	It’s like you’re working with them, just like the pitcher. 

Bob Burg:	Exactly.

John Corcoran:	Or yeah, the batter.

Bob Burg:	And if they possibly can, they will.  Sometimes they can’t.  They really don’t have a choice and you’re going to have to either walk away or come up with the money to pay it.  But really, what this does is it creates that frame that if they can possibly work this out for you, and make it happen, they will.

John Corcoran:	Okay.  And then the other thing I wanted to ask about, which we touched on earlier, was politics.  So this is like the ultimate adversarial situation.  So many people.  It’s such a divisive issue.  People – friendships have been ruined over having political disagreement.  So please wade us into that thicket.  How do  you persuade someone, either persuade someone or at least not make someone into more of an adversary if you disagree on politics?

Bob Burg:	Yeah.  John, you’ve seen, as well as I have, some of the online discussions on Facebook, where you have all this vitriol and all this horrible back and forth, insulting people.  Have you ever noticed that when someone writes a response to someone – let’s say on Facebook – and they say something like, “Are you just insane?  Are you stupid?  Are you trying to ruin this country and totally bring us to financial collapse,” and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.  Ever notice that the person being accused never responds by saying, “You know, you’re right.  I never thought of it that way.  I really am just ruining this whole thing.  I’m going to agree with you now and take your side of the issue.”

	It just doesn’t happen.  You cannot insult someone into taking your point of view.  And you’re probably not going to, when someone is so far apart in basic philosophy, you’re probably not going to turn that person.  However, what you can do – there’s two things.  One is for people who aren’t totally in philosophical disagreement with you, and they are open to being persuaded to your political philosophy, by showing kindness and respect, you’re much more likely to be able to bring them over to your side.  But there’s also something else.  Know that in a lot of these conversations, while the two or three or four people going back and forth in this vitriolic way are very set in their ideas, there’s a whole lot of people lurking and not participating in the conversation, but they’re still looking to see the information that’s being provided.

	And if you’ve got one person who’s poisonous in their insults and so forth, whatever they say is going to be really dismissed by those people who are kind of in the middle, looking to decide which way to go.  And the person who presents their argument tactfully and kindly and respectfully, that’s the person whose views are going to be more apt to be taken.  So here’s one thing you can do in helping to reframe this kind of vitriolic type of argument.  Let’s say someone says, “People like you who don’t believe in blah, blah, blah, blah, you’re heartless and you’re cruel and you’re ruining this country by so and so, so and so.”  

	Now rather than letting your ego get caught up and insulting this guy with the [inaudible] [00:16:30] attacks, that again, do nothing but create distance, what you want to do is say something along the lines of, “Well first, just by what you’re saying, it sounds – I can tell you’re the type of person who really cares about benefiting the most people you possibly can, and I certainly respect that.”  Then you say, “Like you” – and here’s the exact language, “Like you, I want to live in a country where people are able to blah, blah, blah,” and you basically go to what – the same – basically it doesn’t matter how far left or right or libertarian or this or that, we want people to be thriving and be healthy and be happy and be prosperous and be – it’s just the way we feel is best to get there is different.

	So it’s like, “Like you, I want to live in a country where people are free to blah, blah, blah, blah, whatever it happens to be.”  And say, “I think our biggest differential is how we would suggest getting there.”  Okay?  So now what you’ve done is you’ve reframed this.  This person, if they’re really a poisonous person, they’re not going to buy into that and be as polite as you are.  But everyone else is going to see this, and everyone else is going to have more respect for you, for making your point in a way that respects the other person and respects the process.

John Corcoran:	I love your approach to that, and thank you, Bob, for sharing that.  I love your positivity and optimism and backing up some of your philosophies here today with all of us, with some real specific approaches and specific scripts that people can use.  So thank you so much for that.

Bob Burg:	My pleasure.

John Corcoran:	And I want to wrap things up with our final question, which is, let’s pretend that this is like your Oscar speech.  You just got an Academy Award or whatever award of your choice – you’re at an awards show, and you’ve achieved a lot in your career.  You’ve written a number of books.  You’ve given all kinds of keynote speeches all over the world.  So who would you like to thank?  What are the relationships that have been instrumental to your success?  Of course it’s family, but other mentors, colleagues, friends, tell me.

Bob Burg:	Absolutely it begins with my parents.  Having a mom and dad as I have, who set such a wonderful example, that’s priceless.  I’ve also been very fortunate to have mentors along the way, John, that have just been there at the right time, and were so helpful and so kind.  And I would also absolutely have to thank my business partner, Kathy Tagenel, who is just a brilliant and wonderful human being, who runs the business and allows me to do the things that I do best.  

John Corcoran:	Oh, great.  Okay, good.  Very good.  Thank you, Bob, and where can people learn more about you?

Bob Burg:	Well, they can come to burg, B-U-R-G, .com.  While there, if they like, they can subscribe to my Influence and Success Insights.  When they do, they will get Chapter 1 of the Go Giver, which I co-authored with John David Mann, as well as my book, Adversaries Into Allies, Go Givers, Sell More and Endless Referrals, the first chapters, so they can see if they like it and so forth.  They can also connect with me on social media, right through the home page.  Everything is set up there.  Again, Kathy did a wonderful job of setting all that up.

John Corcoran:	Good job, Kathy.  All right, Bob, thank you so much for taking the time.

Bob Burg:	Oh John, thank you for everything you do.  I appreciate you.

John Corcoran:	All right.  And –

Transcribed by GMR Transcription

The post 092: Bob Burg | How to Be a Giver appeared first on Smart Business Revolution.

091: From College Dropout to 6-Figure Author
36:08
2017-09-21 04:57:46 UTC 36:08
091: From College Dropout to 6-Figure Author

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My guest on today’s episode of the Smart Business Revolution podcast is Chandler Bolt.

Chandler is no ordinary guest.

He’s a young guy – most of my guests are a long further along in their career – Chandler is in his early 20s. He dropped out of college. And he doesn’t have a long career.

But I was introduced to him recently and I thought he had an interesting story to tell.

While he was still in college, he decided to write and publish a book. I was busy chasing girls and going to parties – he’s writing a book. That book helped launch a six figure business – built of course not just on book sales, but by monetizing the book with other services and consulting.

He then dropped out of college to focus full time on writing and today he helps other aspiring authors to become bestselling authors on the Amazon Kindle platform, and to create six-figure businesses behind those books.

He even recently created the Self-Publishing Success Summit which he was kind enough to interview me for along with some really big names including Jack Canfield, Brian Tracy, Michael Port, Jeff Goins – frankly I’m not sure how I squeaked in to that group but somehow I did.

Now, Chandler’s career is not the usual path you think of when you think of an author, but Chandler is part of a larger movement of do it yourself authors.

chandler boltIt used to be you had to break in with big publishing houses you had to wait for permission; today, you don’t have to wait for permission. And writing and publishing a book can be a great way to catapult your business.

This episode is brought to you by my friends over at The Art of Charm podcast.

The Art of Charm is an iTunes Top 50 podcast overall – one of the few truly independent podcasts in that top 50.

AoC is packed with ideas and strategies from how to work better to how be a better human – they’ve covered topics like: how to create confidence; how to get people to like & trust you; productivity; networking and time-management.

Their episodes are both fun and educational at the same time – not stuffy college professor textbook stuff.

Go to TheArtofCharm.com or find The Art of Charm in iTunes or Stitcher or your favorite podcasting app. I love listening to the show and you should give it a try – I think you will as well.

Finally, be sure to grab a free copy of Chandler’s book – Book Launch, at: SmartBusinessRevolution.com/BookLaunch.

By the way, Chandler is about to open back up his Self-Publishing School program (referral link), an online training program for learning how to publish a book. I know a number of people who have gone through it and I’ve checked it out myself, and it is a really detailed, step-by-step program.

If you have ever thought about writing and publishing a book, I highly recommend checking out Self-Publishing School. They have have a free blueprint on how to go from “no idea” to a published author without a lot of pain and struggle.

Enjoy!

Right Click here to download the MP3

Click here to subscribe via iTunes

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090: Mandi Ellefson | How to Get Back 20 Hours Per Month
39:54
2017-09-21 04:57:46 UTC 39:54
090: Mandi Ellefson | How to Get Back 20 Hours Per Month

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OK let’s imagine you’re 8 years old…

And it’s Saturday morning after a long week. You’re tired, you’re ready to sleep in.

Then your Dad wakes you up to do chores.

Not just any chores. He has a checklist. For you how clean the bathroom. How you clean the kitchen. You have to initial that you completed each step of the way.

Sounds like a nightmare to me, but for Mandi Ellefson, it was an inspiration.

Mandi grew up in a home where her father ran a tight ship just like I described.

She grew up with 6 siblings and so her father created a system by necessity. They needed to be organized and so they ran the family like a well-oiled machine.

Today Mandi does for entrepreneurs what her father did for her. She systemizes their businesses so they run better and get managing their business out of the way so they can focus on what they do best.

Mandi helps entrepreneurs get time back so they can have more free time and grow their business, increase their revenue and income.

You know, nearly every person who listens to this podcast or reads my blog struggles with time management and productivity.

In this episode, Mandi shares some real actionable tips for how you can get back 20 hours of time per month. I think you’ll find there’s some great advice in here.

This episode is brought to you by my friends over at The Art of Charm podcast.

The Art of Charm is an iTunes Top 50 podcast overall – one of the few truly independent podcasts in that top 50.

AoC is packed with ideas and strategies from how to work better to how be a better human – they’ve covered topics like: how to create confidence; how to get people to like & trust you; productivity; networking and time-management.

Their episodes are both fun and educational at the same time – not stuffy college professor textbook stuff.

Go to TheArtofCharm.com or find The Art of Charm in iTunes or Stitcher or your favorite podcasting app. I really enjoy this show and I think you will as well.

Enjoy!

Resources from this Episode:

Right Click here to download the MP3

Click here to subscribe via iTunes

Advertise on the Smart Business Revolution podcast

Transcript of Interview:

John Corcoran:	I’ll start this over again.  I’m going to start this over again.  Okay.  All right, 3, 2, 1.  All right, I’m talking with Mandi Ellefson.  Mandi, you are a service scalability strategist.  You help service professionals to scale to make more money in less time.  And many of my listeners this podcast are running around like crazy.  They feel like there aren’t enough hours in the day.  They struggle to get new clients.  At the same time, they’re struggling to service the ones that they do have.  They say that they don’t have enough time.  They want to make more money.  They want to increase their profits, but they’re not sure how.

	So what should they do?  Where do they start with that problem?

Mandi Ellefson:	That’s a really great question that you asked there, and it kind of goes back to the realities of having a service business, and a service business is started because you have some form of expertise, and then you decide to lay out your shingle and have a business around it.  And what you’re essentially doing is selling your time for money.  And that works really great if that’s what your objective is, but at some point, you reach a limit, and your income can’t grow beyond that.  And what’s what I help my clients with and help them run more passive businesses.  

	But what happens is there’s this limitation based on you because you are not scalable.  There’s a finite number of hours that we have in the day, in the week, in the year, and you can’t scale you.  So what you want to do instead is to build an asset that is manned with other people who can profitably deliver the service for you.  That’s one option to scale.

John Corcoran:	And when you say asset, what do you mean by that?

Mandi Ellefson:	So the way most service businesses are run, the majority of the economy is actually made up with service businesses, about 65 percent according to statistics by the government that I looked at.  So – all right, can you edit this out?  I’m sorry, I forgot the question you asked.

John Corcoran:	Sure.  Oh –

Mandi Ellefson:	I lost my train of thought.

John Corcoran:	What was the question?  It was –

Mandi Ellefson:	Asset, build an asset.  That was a really great question.

John Corcoran:	Okay, let me start over again.  Okay.  All right, 3, 2, 1.  All right, so what is this asset that you’re talking about?  How do you create an asset for your business?

Mandi Ellefson:	That’s a really great question because the thing is, is that most service businesses, like I was talking about, it’s time for money and their expertise they’re selling.  And what they’re really selling is their time, themselves.  And what you can instead do is take the information that’s in your brain and then make that into an asset, and then what you can do with that is the asset can then be scalable.  And that is – the asset could be a product that you could sell.  I know you have products that you sell based on your expertise.  It could be a process that someone else can run for you.

	That could be you run with staff, and if you do it the right way, it can be very profitable and you can scale up a done-for-you service that way, that maybe you’re doing on your own.  And a lot of people don’t even realize that they can do that because it’s all up in their head instead of in a process that’s actually an asset that your business owns.

John Corcoran:	And what do you say to people who might say, “Oh, well, I can’t do that with my business because it just doesn’t work that way?”

Mandi Ellefson:	Well, they might be right.

John Corcoran:	Okay.  So you say, “Sorry, you’re on your own.”

Mandi Ellefson:	I think that you could take a component of almost any business, any service business, there’s always some kind of intellectual property that you could take, and that you could do something with.  It doesn’t necessarily mean that all service businesses – you could have a done-for-you service component that is staffed with people who can carry out processes.  That doesn’t work with all businesses.  Sometimes it’s very focused on a highly customizable service, and in that case, a highly customizable service is always going to be dictated by having someone who has a high level of skill and doing custom work, as opposed to process-oriented work that is based on a system that has been fine-tuned and proven to deliver a certain outcome.

John Corcoran:	Okay, if someone’s listening to this, and they’re wondering whether an element of their business, or all of their business can be boiled down to a process, that can be scaled –

Mandi Ellefson:	Yeah.

John Corcoran:	– is there a process for them to go through figuring out how they would do that?  

Mandi Ellefson:	Yeah.  So first of all, all businesses have elements of it that can be put into processes and systematized.  There’s all of that.  But it doesn’t necessarily mean that it’s a scalable business.  And what a scalable business is, a scalable model in the service world is one where you can take your service and make it more like a product.  You have it – you want to aim for 80/20.  80/20 is 80 percent based on process that you have proven time and time again, and 20 percent customized.  And when you stack it in this way, then what it does is it allows you to have the value of a done-for-you service.  You can charge a really high ticket price for it.  But then you have really high margins with the 80 percent of it being process-oriented.

	But the only way that that’s going to work for it to be process-oriented is, well first of all, if you get the information in your head out into [inaudible] [00:05:51] your business, but the other thing is you have to be very clear on the outcome that you solve for your clients and for a particular type of client.  Because you do everything for everybody, then that’s a highly customized service, and highly customized services are [inaudible] it is required to have someone with a very highly level of knowledge that can customize anything.  And that’s where you kill your margins and you’re not able to scale up your business because the staff that you have are just too expensive to be profitable.

John Corcoran:	Okay, all right.  So I get that.  So what’s the next step for someone who’s listening to this, who maybe concludes that there is an element of their business that they can create a process out of so that they can ultimately scale it?  How do you – I mean do you just brain dump everything out of your head and create a process?

Mandi Ellefson:	Yeah, that’s definitely part of it.  It’s to look at what – really you want to start with, for a service business, you want to start with the big outcome that you provide for your clients, and take a look at all the different services that you’re doing.  Look for the commonalities and see the ones that provide the highest amount of value for your clients, the ones that have the highest profit for you.  And you also want to look at the ones for the opportunity too because they might not be the highest profit for you right now, and that could be for a number of factors.  But you can innovate it to make it more profitable.

	So you look for these opportunities where there’s a market need, you can provide it at a very high level of quality, and that people really want.  So that’s – when you look at that equation there, that’s when you know if you’re at the sweet spot to a service that you can streamline and deliver more profitably, and with a team, if it makes sense.

John Corcoran:	I think I missed all three of those.  You said you want to make sure it’s a high-level quality, you want to make sure people want it, and I think there was another one.

Mandi Ellefson:	Yes, the quality, demand and also it’s profitable.

John Corcoran:	Profitable, okay, got it.  All right.  And do you – now we were talking before the call – you learned this at a young age, right?  You learned about the importance of processes at a young age.  Tell me about that.

Mandi Ellefson:	I did.  I did.  This is a little bit of an embarrassing story.  But from the time I was 8 years old, maybe even younger than that, my dad was very process-oriented, and we had job contracts.  They were contracts.  He would print them out every Saturday morning, and it was like a standard operating procedure.  It was like a checklist, where we’d go through and it had all these specific tasks related to like cleaning the bathroom, for example.  And he had us all in ship-shape.  I have five siblings, and we were all cleaning, scrubbing the house Saturday morning. 

	I don’t know how you – I know it’s very difficult to get a small child to do a good job cleaning the bathroom, for example.

John Corcoran:	Yeah, I have a 4-year-old.  That ain’t happening.  Maybe at 8.

Mandi Ellefson:	But we had to sign off on each little thing, each task, and then we had to sign it and date it.  And it was due by 2:00 and every hour after that, we lost 25 percent of our allowance.

John Corcoran:	Wow, wow.  Quite a system he had there.  What did your dad do for a living?

Mandi Ellefson:	He was a businessman.

John Corcoran:	Okay, all right.

Mandi Ellefson:	So yeah –

John Corcoran:	Highly systemized business.

Mandi Ellefson:	I think he just thought in systems more than anything else.  

John Corcoran:	And what’s interesting is you used to be a designer, so it’s almost like you have a right brain, left brain tension going on here.

Mandi Ellefson:	Yeah, it’s really the case.  I studied design in college.  I also studied geology, which is – I didn’t even realize it at the time, that’s all systems.  It’s earth systems.  So yeah, I have like this right-brain creative side.  My mom’s actually an artist.  I’m an artist as well.  Something I do as a hobby.  I’m not really interested in selling my art or anything.  My dad’s a businessman, and I also learned the more analytical side from geology.  So yeah, it’s like to be able to see the big picture, but then have a creative way to innovate is – like with innovating services which I do, it’s really helpful, the work that I do.

John Corcoran:	Okay.  So let’s get back to the practical application for the listener who’s a service professional, and maybe they’ve hit a point where they feel like they can’t grow any farther.  Their business is doing well, but they’d like to increase their income, but they’re maxed out in terms of the amount of time they can – the number of hours they can work in the week, and the amount that they could charge for their service.  What do they do?

Mandi Ellefson:	Okay.  Well, I’m going to come to that question, and I want to address it in depth.  And if I don’t, then please come back and make sure.  But I want to first talk about –

John Corcoran:	Oh, if you don’t address it in depth, I’m docking you 25 percent of your allowance.  

Mandi Ellefson:	Of my hour.

John Corcoran:	Yeah.  

Mandi Ellefson:	Well there’s three top misconceptions about scaling a service business.  They’re myths I just want to debunk because they’re very prevalent, and they’re – if it’s part of your mindset, it’s really holding you back from being able to scale your service.  And the top one is that you have to work more hours in order to scale your business.  Most business owners think that they need to work more hours, and actually, that’s not the case.  The way that you are able to scale and get past it is leveraging what you have and actually working less.  The other misconception I touched on a little bit earlier is that you have to hire expensive staff, and there’s this balance between hiring expensive staff and getting great results and hiring cheap staff and getting really poor results that you might have to even do over again.

	So there’s this tension between those two things.  But it is a myth that you have to hire expensive staff, and we can talk about that a little bit more if you want to.  And then the other things is that you have to expose yourself to high risk.  That’s really not the case, and there’s a quote from Warren Buffet that I would like to share with you if that’s cool.  “Risk comes from not knowing what you’re doing.”  So that’s what’s happening, is when – there’s this fear of scaling your service business because you’re not sure what to do.  And if you’re going based on some of these misconceptions, then you are putting yourself in a risky place.

	But I just wanted to first talk about the mindset, so we could come from a place of understanding that those aren’t true.

John Corcoran:	Well, the first one’s a big one.  You said the myth that you need to work more hours to scale your business.  I think there’s a lot of people who think that you just need to hustle, hustle, hustle, and you need to just work harder and longer.  So let’s talk a little bit more about that one.

Mandi Ellefson:	Yeah.  So the thing is is that that’s true up to a certain point.  You do have to hustle, hustle, hustle to get to a certain point.  But what gets you to that point where your business is stable is not the same that gets your business to a place that’s scalable, that’s at scale, if that makes sense.  Because when you’re in start-up mode and getting to survival, what you’re trying to do is just – you’re hustling, hustling, hustling, bringing whatever business you can, and throwing spaghetti against the wall, seeing what sticks.  And at this stage, there’s a whole lot of hustling, and it’s hard work.

	But then once you start seeing what’s working, then you take that and you leverage it, and what ends up happening is you actually can work less hours and actually make more money.

John Corcoran:	Okay, cool.  All right.  So we talked about the myths.  So let’s go back to the what to do – the original question was what to do when you hit a point where you can’t grow any further.  And you said we were going to talk about the myths and then I think you were going to talk about how to find more time?  Was that the first one?

Mandi Ellefson:	Yeah, definitely.  All right, so there’s two different parts to this.  What I specialize in is helping service businesses run more passively.  And like I was mentioning –

John Corcoran:	Let’s address that because I was just thinking about this earlier today.  I’m not a big fan of the term passive income, for my own reasons.  Talk about that a little bit.  Because there’s a lot of people who run around saying they want to make passive income, but in my experience, I think they don’t really know – they have misconceptions about what that really means.

Mandi Ellefson:	Well, it’s the fantasy that a lot of people are chasing, right?

John Corcoran:	Right.

Mandi Ellefson:	And the really important thing behind this is that you’re creating value.  And the way you’re creating value is we talked about taking a look at your process and seeing how you can maximize the amount of value you offer and have it based on a proven system that increases the value.  So what that does is it decreases the amount of time that you personally have to input into the engagement with each client.  So you’re able to move that on.  So you’re still – you’re creating value.  When you create value in your business and when you pass off different processes that you can give to your staff to do, then you’re creating value.

	And while it might be more passive for you, your business is still working, right?  Your business is delivering the value.

John Corcoran:	Yes, okay, got that.

Mandi Ellefson:	So when I think about passive, I think of taking your work week, whether that’s 40, 50, 60, 70, 80 hour work week, and seeing how you can cut that down.  Because that’s what running a more passive business is, is working less, right?

John Corcoran:	Right.  

Mandi Ellefson:	And again, there’s two different parts to that, if you don’t mind me going into that.

John Corcoran:	Go for it.

Mandi Ellefson:	So the first part is to find time and leverage it, and we’ve touched on that a little bit.  And I can go into more detail on that.  And the second part is to set up the structures to make your business run without you.  And depending on what kind of business you have, there’s different levels of what you can do with that.  I’m not going to –

John Corcoran:	I was just going to say – and that’s one that people also struggle with, the idea of the business running without you, either because they feel like it can’t run without their active involvement, or because they can’t envision it running without them because they don’t have the staff in place.  So talk a little bit about that as well, for someone who their business absolutely – someone who’s listening to this for their business right now, absolutely could not run without them, you know, where do they start?

Mandi Ellefson:	So there is a lot of misconceptions out there that – the mindset is I can’t possibly make my business run without me.  And that’s, for some businesses, that is true.  But for other businesses, it’s just simply a mindset issue.  And you know, if there’s anyone listening to this right now who would like to know if their business could run without them, just go ahead and reach out to me.  My email is mandiellefson.com.  You can put that in the show notes if you want to.  Just reach out to me and I’d be more than happy, if you tell me your situation, I’ll tell you if it’s a scalable business or not, and I don’t do that to necessarily, for you to be a client or not.

	I could just tell you that as a way to help you.  Because I know that, being able to know that, like not every person will be able to take a look at that and say, “Yup, that’s scalable or it’s not.”  But I look at so many businesses, I can tell right away, in a very simple, quick conversation if it’s scalable or not and what you need to do in order to make it scalable.

John Corcoran:	Yeah.  Or you could be in a situation like me.  I mean my business is a little bit unusual because I practice law, and then I have a blog and a podcast, but it isn’t necessarily about law.  It’s actually kind of a different focus, although there is a common threat in that I work with entrepreneurs, I work with small business owners.  And honestly, the small business owners that hire me as a lawyer, sometimes there’s a breakdown in communication, and relationships oftentimes – the problem is a lack of communication in them.  So there’s a connection between what I do with the blog and the podcast and what I do in practicing law.

	But I certainly didn’t take my legal knowledge and package that up and make that into a product.  It’s actually different, in a sense.

Mandi Ellefson:	Yeah, definitely.  

John Corcoran:	So I guess there is the possibility for service professionals who are listening to this, who feel like there’s no way my business could run without me.  Or there’s no way my business could be scaled up.  They could create something that’s different – related, but different, right?

Mandi Ellefson:	Yeah, yeah.  That is one option.  I mean there’s a lot of different options.  There’s the done-for-you services.  There’s creating a product from your knowledge.  There’s taking your service and then certifying people to actually deliver it for you.  Those aren’t necessarily things that I specialize in, but there’s a lot of – there’s a number of ways to scale beyond what you’re doing right now.

John Corcoran:	Okay.  So let’s talk a little bit more about – you were talking about setting up structures so your business can run without you.

Mandi Ellefson:	Yeah, that’s right.

John Corcoran:	Okay.  

Mandi Ellefson:	And we already talked about the first thing, about 80/20, doing the 80/20 on your service.  And then building the systems and processes so that you’re building up an asset of your business.  And what that also does, is it offsets your risk because what can happen is that if you hire people based on their experience alone, and they’re like the super star in your business, they could be fantastic, they could be great for your business, and maybe they’re even profitable.  Maybe it’s working out for your business.  But what happens when they leave?

	They take all that value with them.  And you’re stuck in a place where you’re really at high risk.  So really what happens is you’re beholden to the staff.  And I’m not saying that they’re not great for your business, but you have to consider what can you do to build that into your business so that you own it?  Build their information in.  Because I look at it this way.  Do you want to rent or do you want to own?  Because if you hire staff and you don’t actually document the processes that they’re doing, then you’re renting them.  You’re leasing them.

	Whereas if you have them document it and have it be part of your business, then your business owns it.  And it’s an asset in your business that you could have continue on after they’re gone.  And also you could even use it to sell your business at one point.  Or sell off parts of your business.

John Corcoran:	Yeah, a lot more attractive to a potential buyer that way.  What about – I was listening to Dan Sullivan from Strategic Coach.  He has a podcast with Joe Polish called 10X Talk that I love listening to.  And he was talking about the difference between a process manager and a project manager.  And a process manager is someone who loves mastering a process and then being able to do it over and over again, and doesn’t want to have a new idea coming up and doesn’t have a new project coming up, and they want to really master a particular process.  

	Versus a project manager is someone who likes new ideas, and they want to work their way through a new idea, and then when they get to the end, they don’t want to do it again.  They want to start on a new idea, a new project, and then work on that project and see it through to conclusion, and then move on to the next thing.  So can you talk a little bit about the difference between those two?  I know that’s not your terminology.

Mandi Ellefson: 	Yeah, it’s not my terminology.  I’ve heard of that before, and I am a big fan of his work.  And I do agree with where he’s coming across that way because he’s defining two different mindsets for how you work.  And it’s kind of like the worker bee versus kind of the creative, more the creative person who can innovate, right?

John Corcoran:	Right.  

Mandi Ellefson:	So you’re talking about two different kinds of mindsets.  But the way I like to see it and to look at it is that every role in your business can and should have processes for the job.  And maybe they are not even there when you first hire them.  Preferably you have something for them to start with, but you want them to be building out these processes that they’re doing, and have them be responsible, them owning that process, every person in the organization.  And so the project manager owns processes for how they manage projects and how they manage the staff.

	But every person in the organization has the opportunity to innovate.  And that’s where owning a certain procedure, a certain process can be really valuable.  Because having that sense of ownership is what allows people to be accountable and to also reward people based on how they are bringing new ideas to your company.  

John Corcoran:	Okay, all right, good.  What else do we need to know?

Mandi Ellefson:	What else do you need to know?  Well, I think we’ve talked a little bit about the second part of making your business run without you.  But I’d also like to talk about how to find time and how to leverage that because that is something that everyone here can do.

John Corcoran:	Absolutely.  Amen, sister.  I mean I think everyone listening is like, “Yes, yes, I need that.”

Mandi Ellefson:	Exactly.  Everyone, whether they are an employee, a corporation, or whether you’re just starting your business, or whether you have a multi-million dollar business, this applies to everyone.  Whereas making your business run without you, it doesn’t necessarily apply to everyone.  So yeah, so the first thing about having a more passively run business is to slash between 5 and 20 hours off of your work week.

John Corcoran:	Sounds good.  How do we do that?

Mandi Ellefson:	How do we do that?  All right.  Well what I’ll do is I’m going to go ahead and tell you how to slash five hours off of your work week with just one tweak.  

John Corcoran:	Probably like shutting off Facebook, right?

Mandi Ellefson:	Shutting off Facebook, that’s definitely a start.

John Corcoran:	That’s five hours right there.

Mandi Ellefson:	Yeah, so that would probably do it if that’s a big time suck for you.  But if you don’t mind me going in – telling you – you tell me if this is too much information, but I developed a process for how to find more time because this was something I found challenged a lot with my clients.  I personally had to challenge myself with time management, and I was finding that all the information out there, even though I had read tons of productivity books and so had my clients, it was very difficult to actually implement it because you had hundreds of ideas on how to be more productive instead of what is the one, two or three things that are going to make 80 percent of the difference?

	So I developed a process for how to find the 80/20 of the time management.  So I’m going to share the top ten that I found works with just about every entrepreneur that I’ve worked with.  So the way this works is to look at your peak time.  So –

John Corcoran:	Like when you’re feeling most energized?

Mandi Ellefson:	Yeah, when you’re feeling most energized, when you’re at your highest peak, productivity, your highest focus.  As it turns out, as much as people like to talk about them not being morning people, the way it works is that about 90 percent of people are actually at their highest focus in the morning.  There’s about 10 percent or so that are more night owls, but most people really are most productive in the morning.  

John Corcoran:	And that’s when we’re all getting to work and we check Facebook and Twitter, and then we respond to a bunch of emails, and pretty soon, it’s noon.

Mandi Ellefson:	Exactly, exactly.  But the other thing that’s happening too – and this is something that entrepreneurs can particularly take advantage of, is that most people are at their peak hours between 7:00 a.m. and 11:00 a.m.  So if you start your work day at 9:00, half of your peak hours are already gone.  But what I would suggest with this is – well, let me first talk about peak time.  And maybe I can send you a link to where they can see this diagram, a visual of how this actually works.  Because what happens is when you wake, at about 5:00 or 6:00 in the morning is right where your focus and your ability to be productive is just peaking very – it’s rising very quickly.  

	So between around 7:00 and 11:00 is your peak hours where you can get the very most done.  And this is on average.  What I found is that sometimes – my best hours can start as early as 5:00 in the morning.  And a lot of people might not even know that, if they are someone who can be that focused early in the morning, because they’re sleeping through that time.  But the reason why this is important is that I don’t think I’ve ever met an entrepreneur who says that if they took those peak times where they’re most focused, most productive, and completely blocked off all other distractions, didn’t let anyone interrupt them, didn’t check their email – and if you want, I can give you a tip on how to stay focused on that.

	Because a lot of times when you’re working and that, you might actually have to reference your email, but it’s really easy to get sucked in.  So if you want a tip on that, just remind me to tell you about that and I can.  But what happens is if you focus on that time, on your highest leveraged things you need to get done during the day, that will really make a difference for your business, you can easily get twice as much done.  So if you block off just one hour a day, which let’s say you start work at 9:00, and you just went from 9:00 to 10:00 and blocked that off, didn’t do anything but your highest leveraged task, you’d be able to get twice as much done, and one extra hour, one extra productive hour every day, that’s five extra hours per week.

	That’s 20 extra hours per month, and that’s like – that’s a month and a half of extra productive days per year.

John Corcoran:	Wow.

Mandi Ellefson:	So it has a huge impact, and that’s just for one hour.  I’ve had clients who have said, “Well you know, I’m going to actually get into work one hour earlier.  I’m not going to let my staff interrupt me.  I’m going to actually take between 8:00 to 11:00, these three hours, and these are going to be blocked off.  And if they get double the amount of time in that, then that’s like 15 extra hours per week.  And that’s 60 extra hours per month.

John Corcoran:	How did they decide what to do during this time?

Mandi Ellefson:	So you look at your highest leveraged tasks, the things that you really need to do in order to move your business forward.  And what I recommend doing is having that be the thing that you do at the end of your day to close it out.  And then that removes it off your mind.  So I like to use a note card because you can have it sitting right on your desk, and then you write your top three things you need to do.  And at the end of the day, it’s fresh in your mind and it’s a lot easier for you to look and say, “I have to get these things done.”  And then during that time when you’re really productive and you’re focusing only on those things, you’re able to get so much more done without all the distractions.

John Corcoran:	Yeah, that’s excellent.  I have – my friend Jeff Rose, I think he calls it his high five.  I’m not sure if he made that up or if that’s a strategic coach term.  But he writes down five things the night before, and then the next day, in the morning, it’s like he can’t do anything until he does those five things.

Mandi Ellefson:	Yeah.  Absolutely.  And you could do five if you want.  Three can be easier to manage for some people, and once you do your three, you can add more on to it.  That’s just kind of a personal choice.  I like three just because it’s easier to focus on that, and then when you start feeling your mind drift, then you just look back on the card and it reminds you what you really should be doing.  But I’ve known entrepreneurs who have been able to get 8 times as much done in that hour because they just are so much more productive during that.  And what that means is they can work until noon, and that’s their day.

John Corcoran:	Oh yeah.  There was, for me, looking back, there was a period of time for about six months, where I was getting up early in the morning.  It was when my wife was pregnant with our second child, and I knew the baby was coming, and I got hyper, hyper focused and laser focused, and I got a ton done.  And now, of course, we have a 1-year-old, we’ve had a baby for the last year, so that kind of ruined things for quite a while there.

Mandi Ellefson:	I can understand that.

John Corcoran:	Yeah, yeah, exactly.  And there are parents who are probably listening to this saying, “Oh, this is all well and good, but I’ve got three kids at home,” or whatever.  You came from six.

Mandi Ellefson:	Well the thing is though, actually it’s that much more important if you’re a parent.  I know this because I have small children too, and sometimes my very best time during the day is when I wake up at 5:00 or 6:00 in the morning, when I know they’re not going to be awake.  I can get so much more done during that period of time.  But it can be challenging if you have to get up with kids during the middle of the night, and that’s why I’m not getting up at 5:00 in the morning right now because my daughter wakes me up quite a bit.  So I look forward to getting back into that habit because it’s really a nice way for me to flow in my day.

John Corcoran:	Yeah, I was talking to someone about this earlier today who was saying he gets up at 4:30 in the morning to get work done for about two hours.  And I said, “Well, I could get up at 4:30 and maybe I would get 15 minutes’ worth of work done, until my younger son wakes up.”  Yeah, I guess we all have these struggles, so it’s all about prioritizing and finding that time and making it happen.

Mandi Ellefson:	And what’s really important as well is not just looking at this as there’s only a one-size-fits-all because this is not at all one-size-fits-all.  I walk through this process with my clients.  It’s the very first thing I do because they come to me and they want this solution to be able to run their business more passively.  They want to be able to scale it up.  But they can’t do it with the current workload they have.  So I go ahead and find them extra time so they can immediately go and invest it into doing this in their business.

	But it’s not a one-size-fits-all, and that’s why it’s really helpful to look at where your flow is, and then you make one, two, three small tweaks that are going to make a huge difference, the 80/20, and then you focus only on making those changes, not on implementing millions of productivity tips that you find out there.

John Corcoran:	Yeah, that’s good advice.  All right, so I want to wrap things up.  But were there any other final thoughts on making more time, finding more time?

Mandi Ellefson:	No, I don’t have any final thoughts on that.  I think that we about covered it.  But I do want to say that if – I have a video that goes into more depth about this, and –

John Corcoran:	Please, yeah, tell us.

Mandi Ellefson:	– and then I also – so what I would like to do is share with your listeners here my scalable service toolkit.  And that includes a more in-depth video with some of the diagrams that I’m talking about, finding 20 extra hours, and then also kind of an overview of what stage you’re at, what growth stage you’re at in your business, and what specific actions you can take to move forward.  Because we were talking about the hustling stages and more of the success stages, and the actions you take are really important based on which stage of growth you are in your business.

John Corcoran:	So true.  So where can people grab this toolkit?

Mandi Ellefson:	So you can get this at mandiellefson.com/toolkit.  I’ll go ahead and –

John Corcoran:	And I’ll put it in the show notes, but it’s M-A-D-I-E-L-L-E-F –

Mandi Ellefson:	It’s actually M-A-N-D-I.

John Corcoran:	M-A-N-D-I – what did I say?

Mandi Ellefson:	You forgot the N, I think.

John Corcoran:	M-A-N-D-I-E-L-L-E-F-S-O-N, right?

Mandi Ellefson:	Yeah, /toolkit, one word.

Interviewer:	Got it, toolkit, okay.  Excellent.  Okay, great.  Good, okay, good.  And then Mandi, of course, the last question – I don’t think I prepped you beforehand about this last question that I usually ask.  So I apologize about that.  So we’re going to put you on the spot a little bit.  But you did not know this, but you’re actually at the Academy Awards, you’re at the Oscars, and you’ve just been awarded an Academy Award, and now you’ve got to get on stage and the entire world is watching.  It can be an award for whatever.  But the point is, we want to hear what your speech is. 

	We want to hear what – who you thank is really the most important.

Mandi Ellefson:	Who I’d like to thank.

John Corcoran:	And of course you thank you family.  We all know that.  We all know that.  You thank you family, your kids and everything.  But really, we want to know what relationships have been instrumental in your success this far in your career.  So this could be mentors, it could be colleagues, it could be friends, it could be business partners, it could be an old boss, it could be an old professor.  Who are a few of those people?  And be sure not to forget anyone because they’re going to be furious.

Mandi Ellefson:	Well you know, John, I love your podcast because – and all of your content in your newsletter, because it talks about the importance of relationships.  And I couldn’t agree more.  And one of the – my first mentor actually, starting my business, is Carolyn Duncan.  And she owns several business startup incubators and a social venture capital fund, and she’s just a phenomenal individual.  And what she did is she helped me – she really gave me the confidence and the encouragement and the support to start my first business.

	And she really pushed me over the line.  I was coming out of maternity leave, and she’s like, “You’ve got to do this.  You’ve got to do this.”  And she eventually helped me leave my job as a manager, and just is really great support and a mentor.  And she taught me that I could be remarkable and not let my age get in the way of that, to not use that as an excuse.

John Corcoran:	Oh, that’s great.  Because I know we have some younger listeners who will like hearing that.  And how did you get her as a mentor?  Did you call her up and say, “Will you be my mentor?”

Mandi Ellefson:	She is a really good friend of mine.  We were college roommates.  But that’s just kind of how it worked out.  

John Corcoran:	So that’s great too.  So even someone who’s your same age can serve as a mentor.

Mandi Ellefson:	Yeah, definitely.  She’s a couple years older than me.  We’re about the same age.  And the other thing is, I look at mentorship in a different way, especially now.  Because the way I see mentorship is that you mentor each other.  You always have ways to offer value to each other.  And if you look at it as an exchange like that, then each party is more motivated to get –

John Corcoran:	Yes, I love that.  Okay, great.  Anyone else you want to mention?

Mandi Ellefson:	There’s so many people that I could mention.  I think I’m just going to leave it at that, but what I will say is that I’ve had just countless  people who – they’re not well-known people, but they have taken me under their wing.  And I think the reason why that is – I’ve had a lot of people help me.  I think that the – probably more than the average person gets help.  But I find that people help me, and there’s a reason for that I realize.  I’ve been wracking my brain over that in the past year.  Why do people help me more?  And I realized that, when I was reading the book by Dale Carnegie, How to Win Friends and Influence People, there’s only one reason why people do anything, and that’s because they want to.

	So what I try to do, when I build relationships, and to find mentors, is to really make them want to do that, to make people feel significant, make them feel like they really matter.  And one of the best ways you can do that is show them how they’re making a contribution to you, and just be very liberal in the praise that you give them for how much they’ve helped you.

Interviewer:	Oh, that’s good.  That’s really good advice.  Great, Mandi, thank you so much for taking the time.  And we mentioned already mandiellefson.com/toolkit.  Anywhere else you want to point people to?

Mandi Ellefson:	No, that’s about it.  You could follow me on Twitter at mandiellefson, just the @mandiellefson is Twitter.  And if you want to go ahead and get the toolkit, then there’ll be other ways that you can connect with me as well from there.  And feel free to reach out and email me, mandi@mandiellefson.com.  And if you have a business you’re not sure if it’s scalable or not, just hit me up.  I’d be more than happy to take a look and give you my honest assessment.

Interviewer:	That’s good advice.  Okay, great.  Thank you, Mandi.  Thank you so much.

Mandi Ellefson:	Thanks, John.  I appreciate you having me.

Transcribed by GMR Transcription

The post 090: Mandi Ellefson | How to Get Back 20 Hours Per Month appeared first on Smart Business Revolution.

089: Jon Levy | How to Throw An Influencers Dinner
41:26
2017-09-21 04:57:47 UTC 41:26
089: Jon Levy | How to Throw An Influencers Dinner

rsz_smart_business_revolution_podcast_artwork_red

How would you like to throw a dinner party at your house for about a dozen people and have that group include a “who’s who” of titans of Industry, Olympic athletes, CEOs, musicians and celebrities?

That sounds pretty good.

AND how about all of your guests are doing all the cooking and cleaning – they’re making YOUR dinner.

Sounds too good to be true, right?

Actually it’s not. My guess on this podcast, Jon Levy, does exactly that.

Jon started a series of dinners at his own home in New York city that he calls “The Influencers Dinners.”

Jon LevyIt started with a small group and gained momentum. And today it’s become a bit of a phenomenon.

But get this – Jon did not start with high-level connections. He is just a regular guy who had a crazy idea.

He is actually a first generation immigrant. His family came over the U.S. when he was young so he has no special connections, didn’t know any high-level CEOs or celebrities; didn’t have any hookups.

And yet Fast Company has ranked him as one of its top 15 super connectors.

He’s been profiled in Forbes and NY Times. And some amazing opportunities have come his from this simple concept. He’s gotten speaking gigs, consulting contracts, and even a book deal.

So how does he do it?

And more important, how can YOU take this idea and make it your own?

Jon breaks down in this interview how you can throw your own Influencer experience, which could be anything. It could be gathering a group of people for a cocktail party, it could be putting on a play, it could be a cultural event with a speaker, it could be a pickup basketball game.

It’s not as complicated as you might think.

You’ll find out how in this interview:

  • Jon explains the 3 key elements of organizing an influencer event and getting A-list celebrities and VIPs to yearn to attend your events
  • Jon explains why the strength of a community lies in generosity, diversity and focusing on bringing people together to connect with each other (not with you)
  • Why Jon says you should go out and embarrass yourself and that’s OK
  • How to be a super connector, even if you don’t know anyone
  • How to keep your cost down when organizing these types of events, and
  • Finally the importance of creating your own secret traditions – secrets which you don’t tell ANYONE about (he wouldn’t even tell me in this interview)

This episode is brought to you by my friends over at The Art of Charm podcast.

The Art of Charm is an itunes Top 50 podcast overall – one of the few truly independent podcasts in that top 50.

And it’s no wonder why they do so well – AoC is packed with wisdom from how to become more productive and professional to how to network better for business.

I was honored to be a guest on the Art of Charm last year and I make sure to listen to almost every episode – and it’s one of the very few podcasts I can say that for.

Go to TheArtofCharm.com or find The Art of Charm in iTunes or Stitcher or your favorite podcasting app. I really enjoy this show and I think you will as well.

Enjoy!

Right Click here to download the MP3

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Transcript of Interview:

John Corcoran:	Because I do a backup recording and all right, three, two, one.  All right, I’m talking with Jon Levy, and Jon, you do something crazy.  So, you get influencers, VIPs, celebrities, you get athletes, they all come to your house and they cook you dinner.  It sounds like a great deal to me.  I’d love to have that happen.  How do you make that happen?

Jon Levy:	It’s kinda funny.  You see it all started about six years ago.  I was sitting in a seminar and the seminar leader brought up this really kind of obvious idea, but it never hit me that the fundamental element that defines the quality of our life is the people we surround ourselves with and the conversations that we have with them.  Now, all of us know it’s true, I mean it’s kind of obvious, but we never live like it’s true.  We never say, oh, I wanna get healthier so I’m gonna grab a bunch of friends and make new friends who are fitness experts or I wanna be better with my finances so I’m gonna hang out with a bunch of accountants.

	We end up just kind of developing a social circle of people we really like but not intentionally; we kind of fall into it.  So, I was curious, how do I bring together the most exceptional people in our culture?  How do I create a great life for myself and invariably impact everybody that I can bring together but by bringing the most exceptional, intelligent, successful, thought leaders, influencers and so on in our culture?  And it took me a long time to figure it out because the people who fit into those categories are just so busy, they’re not gonna make time for just anything.  And I developed this dining experience called The Influencers Dinner.

	I invite 12 people at a time, none of them know each other and when they arrive, they’re not allowed to talk about what they do or even give their last name, and after we have a few cocktails, we all cook dinner together and when we sit down to eat, we finally get to guess what everybody else does.  And then the person who is making guacamole gets to find out that they were cooking with the Nobel Laureate in Economics from 2002, and the head of marketing for Sony discovers that he’s sitting down with Dr. Ruth.

	And so it allows people that are incredibly impressive to kind of shed everything that people already know about them and kind of be themselves and then connect with other people who are really extraordinary in an intimate way.

John:	So, right from the get go, there’s a kind of a crazy idea.

Jon Levy:	Oh, yeah, it’s completely wacky.

John:	Yeah, I mean I imagine your friends were like, “Yeah, whatever Jon, that’s a great idea.”  Did you have any previous incarnations of the idea that didn’t work?

Jon Levy:	I initially thought oh, I’ll get a bunch of people together on a phone call, but I realized that why – like I was in middle management, I was 28 at the time, why would the chief marketing officer of a multinational conglomerate ever even look at an email from me let alone dedicate time to get on a phone call?  It just doesn’t make any sense, and that’s when I began developing a model for understanding how to interact with really influential people.

John:	And what did that model look like?  How did you approach, particularly initially, because I think the people who are listening to this, who are interested in this idea, they probably haven’t done it before.  Wild guess here so they probably haven’t done it before so how did you approach it from the start?

Jon Levy:	The first thing I had to accept was that I was gonna embarrass myself at some point because I was coming from nowhere.  To put it in perspective, it’s not like my family is multigenerational wealth so on and so forth.  My father came from an incredibly poor neighborhood in Israel, was one of 12 children.  I had no concept of social etiquettes the way that American culture functions because my parents were immigrants.  And so but my father was also very street smart and socially capable and very charismatic, and I think I learned a lot of that.  And I know I was just going to embarrass myself and continue to screw things up and I have to accept that, and that was my starting point.

	Then I looked at how these people interact with their schedules.  So, really high-level business executives, celebrities, talent of any kind, trailblazers, people who are just constantly being creative and starting new industries, their time is incredibly precious to them.  There’re too many people making requests on them, and nobody really has a concept of the complexities of this.  So, I knew that if I wanted to connect with them I had to create something that would be so outside of their normal behavior that it would give them a break from all of that.

John:	It’s a really interesting idea.  So, what about the – so, there’s the idea itself, which you framed –

Jon Levy:	So, I consider that – it has to be novel.  There must be an element of extreme novelty, right?  If it’s the same thing everybody else is doing, they’ve already experienced it and done it.  They get invited to a hundred different things already so invite people to something that’s never occurred to them or that’s being done in a new way.  Everybody’s eaten dinner, but have they ever cooked dinner?  Maybe.  Have they ever cooked dinner with a bunch of strangers and weren’t allowed to talk about what they do?  Definitely not.

	And then there’s that second element.  I created something exclusive, not exclusive like oh, we’re in a nightclub, you’re not attractive enough to get in.  Right?  That’s kind of lame.  Exclusive in the sense that you know that the other people there are from a highly curated crowd, that you would be honored to spend time with them, that somebody else has done the legwork and you’re about to be delighted.  That’s what I mean by exclusivity.  So, it has to possess novelty, exclusivity and here’s the last element.

	Since these people are always approached for all the answers, they know how the economy is going to go or they know what the next fashion trends are going to be or the next technologies and everybody wants their opinion.  I had to put them in a state where they didn’t have an answer, where they didn’t have a clue what was going on.  I wanted to put them back in a state where it was as if they 12 years old and in awe of the world again.  And that’s why they can’t talk about what they do.  That’s why they have to guess.

John:	Interesting.

Jon Levy:	Now, all of that is very unique to the experience that I build, and don’t get me wrong, I’m really proud of it, but it naturally flows from my character and my passion for bringing people together and I love every moment of doing it.  And people often come to me and they say, “Jon, how do I do my own thing?”  And I couldn’t be more happy that other people are bringing people together and want to create something new.

	And so there’s a really I think wonderful trend that we’re seeing now that kinda like the whole Seth Godin concept of tribes that people are really taking responsibility and creating tribes or groups and communities of their own.

John:	And is that what it eventually becomes?  What that your vision initially for them?

Jon Levy:	I had no clue what I was doing.  The first dinner, it was like 80 something degrees in my house, the air conditioner broke, we were cooking in front of a hot stove, everybody was sweating and being super polite about everything because they didn’t know who they were hanging out with and they didn’t wanna embarrass themselves.  No, I’ve done 50 plus dinners at this point so we’ve iterated and its changed a lot.

	I had no idea what I was creating.  I just knew that I’m going to keep trying this and keep trying this and keep trying this, and something is going to come of it eventually.  And eventually what happened was all of the guests started bonding so much that it created this really tightly knit community comprised of hundreds and hundreds of people.  And the community now has reunions and we have additional events that they come to and we do something like 50 some odd events a year.

John:	Oh, wow.

Jon Levy:	Yeah, it’s pretty extraordinary thinking that like the guy who started Comic Con, having conversations with the author of a New York Times bestseller and then the editor in chief of Men’s Health and then a fashion icon like Stacy London all having cocktails together and then playing board games.

John:	So, let me ask you a couple questions, a couple follow ups to that.  So, what about the actual reaching out process?  So, there is the event that you designed in a way that as you said novelty, exclusivity and also putting them in a state where they don’t have a clue what’s going on.

Jon Levy:	Yeah, of wonder, but that’s not a necessity.  That’s just because it’s an expression of what’s important to me.  Like I fundamentally am committed to living a life of wonder and adventure, right?  Those things are really important to me.  I’m fascinated by just about every person I meet.  I’m really excitable.  I like to experience anything I can, and that’s why it works well for me.

	If we were to design an experience for you to do with your community, it would probably have different values.  You’d still have to respect that the most influential people in that industry have certain constraints on them, but it would need to be unique to you and what’s important to you.

John:	So, tell me about after you’ve designed the experience, how did you go about reaching out to these people?  Did you just come up with a master list of oh, here’s a bunch of successful people that I would –

Jon Levy:	I wish I even knew who people were because as I was explaining, my family’s from another country.  I didn’t really grow up in American culture.  So, I don’t have a clue, like I know who Justin Bieber is and I know who Lindsay Lohan is or whatever.

John:	That’s pretty much all you need to know about American culture, those two.

Jon Levy:	Yes, proud to be American.  So, but if you were to say the name of a famous news anchor, there’s a good chance I wouldn’t know who that was or a well-known actor or a movie even.  I don’t go to movies really.  I maybe see one or two a year.  But when it came time to reach out, it started off very grassroots.  I was shamelessly promoting what I was doing, and I’d talk it up in a way that was much bigger than it was.  So, I kind of did one dinner, it took me six months to do the next one because I just didn’t have enough people to invite yet.  And I’d go to events and I’d just shamelessly promote it.

	And as I started collecting all these people’s information, they’d often be like oh, that sounds great, I’d love to do it, I’d collect their information, I realized that there were certain patterns to email addresses and at most companies, if you can get the email address of one person, even if it’s some first-year associate, then their boss is going to or the CEO is going to –

John:	First initial, their first name followed by their last name of whatever.

Jon Levy:	Yeah, and that’s how I got in touch with a lot of the executives over the years.  I recently had a very senior person from an electronics company who I was really interested in meeting, and I just cold emailed him and I said, “I’d love to talk to you about coming to this dinner.  Would you have coffee with me?”  And he was what a delightful human being.
	I can’t even express his enthusiasm for his work and his joy for interacting with people.  It’s just such a pleasure.  I think the other thing that helps is that I might be cold emailing them, but I’m cold emailing them with no intention of trying to do anything but have a great time with them.  It’s not like I’m looking for advice, which isn’t a bad thing.  These people would be more than happy to give it.  It’s that I’m looking to create a context where people can connect and then it’s natural within that context for them to offer their services or their information or their contacts to me and the rest of the community.

John:	So, if someone’s listening to this and they’re thinking about organizing their own dinner, should they be careful to curate it in, like let’s say they’re a photographer or something like that, should they be curating it with people that they might wanna do work for or should they go broader than that and just anyone –?

Jon Levy:	I would say absolutely, but the power of communities come from their diversity.  And the example I often give is imagine we’re dealing with the global economic crisis and we wanna bring together a group of people so we get an economist and another economist and another, and by the time you’ve reached your tenth economist, you haven’t actually added any new knowledge or information because they’ve all gone to the same schools, they all have the same backgrounds, they speak the same language.

	But if you start adding people who are experts in marketing, in education, in public policy then you begin to add diversity to the community and a real impact and understanding of how to impact things at large.

John:	Right.

Jon Levy:	So, the strength of a community as far as I see it falls under two characteristics, or three.  One is what Adam Grant would consider their generosity, how much they give.  There are those who give, those who match, those who take.  Make sure that you’re finding givers, people who wanna be generous.  The second is focus on diversity of the network so that you add as many new ideas and perspectives as possible.  And with each new person, when they come from diverse backgrounds, their extended network is even more valuable.

	And third is don’t focus on being the center of the network.  Focus on bringing people together so that they can network with each other and you’re part of that community because the more connections they have with your friends and your business associates, the stronger the network itself is.  Now, if you really wanna create something that’s unique to you, which I highly encourage, I don’t really think it needs to be a dinner, I mean that’s just something that kinda naturally came out of my culture and what I found works for me.  But you have to really look at what’s important to you, I mean John, why don’t you tell me a little bit about what you’re passionate about.

John:	Yeah, it’s funny, I’ve thought about this.  One of the things that I like doing is hiking.

Jon Levy:	Oh, that’s wonderful.

John:	I live in Marin County, which is North of San Francisco and it’s nothing but hiking trails here.  Literally, nothing by hot tubs, chardonnay and hiking trails.

Jon Levy:	All three sound amazing.  I don’t even think I should then design anything, but now you really love hiking.  Now, what do you feel like is at your core?  Right?  For some people, it’s generosity.  For other people, it’s art.  For other people, it is health and fitness, and there are certain things that are natural expressions because realize when you’re looking at creating a community, it’s not something that you do once.  It’s something that you foster and is a living, breathing beast and so you have to give it a lot of attention constantly.  So, it has to be something that’s at the core of who you are and what you’re passionate about.

John:	Yeah, I mean for me, it would probably be intelligent conversation like we’re having right now, like I really enjoy being on a hiking trail with someone who’s intelligent and having a great conversation.  I also enjoy doing it over a beer too, but the beer and the hiking is not a great combination.

Jon Levy:	So, we can look at two different ideas.  One is about beer, and one is about hiking because I mean I do enjoy a good drink sometimes.  So, here’s one idea.  What if – and you love intelligent conversations, what if you went on a hike and you went with a group of, I don’t know, five, ten people, and a subsection of that group were experts on something, whatever it is, so that when you got to the top of the hike in a place where there’s an absolutely beautiful view, one, two or three of those people will present ideas for discussion or kinda like a mountaintop TED.

John:	Oh, that sounds great.

Jon Levy:	So, you have this beautiful environment, this shared experience, and as you’re eating maybe lunch or having some trail mix, people are presenting ideas.  And then as part of the presentation, just for example, and this is just off the cuff, each person or the speaker challenges the community of people who are there to find a solution to some kind of problem so that as you’re on the second part of the hike, you’re working together and discussing different concepts and approaches to dealing with an issue so that the hike is the context for bonding and then the content is a catalyst for engagement around a topic.

John:	I love it.  That sounds great.  So, all right, let me ask you a couple of questions here.  So, one I wanna ask is what opportunities has this led to for you?

Jon Levy:	For me specifically?

John:	Yep.

Jon Levy:	It’s really, really funny to me because I never went into it thinking oh, I’ll get any notoriety or attention.  That was never and when I was first approached by a contributor to Forbes to write an article about it, it took me eight months to agree.  And then it took me something like three months plus to agree for a New York Times piece and be on the cover of the Style section.

	So, as more and more articles came out, I developed kind of this reputation as a super connector.  I was recognized by an article in Fast Company as being one of the top super connectors in the U.S. or kind of redefining networking.  It gave me enough attention that I was selected by Gotham magazine as one of the most successful bachelors in New York.

John:	Nice.

Jon Levy:	L selected me as one of the Top 41 bachelors in America.

John:	That’s something that when you’re in high school you’d pay for.

Jon Levy:	Yeah, oh, God, but I don’t know if it’s actually done me any good in terms of the bachelor stuff, but it’s definitely like really novel.  And like I said earlier –

John:	You mean you don’t actually have like a T shirt with that printed on it that you wear to bars?

Jon Levy:	I just try to get my friends to wear T shirts that say I’m with one of L’s 41 most eligible bachelors.  Yeah, whatever works.  But also, I speak a lot at events, and it’s part of what the – I’m sorry, I need to rerecord that portion.  

John:	Yeah, you can start back over again whenever you’re ready.

Jon Levy:	Give me just two seconds because I forgot to put on Do Not Disturb on my –

John:	Your Skype?

Jon Levy:	Yeah.  Sorry, give me a sec.

John:	I can start the question over again too, it was about opportunities.

Jon Levy:	Yeah, let’s do it from the beginning.

John:	If you want me to do that.

Jon Levy:	Yeah.

John:	Are you all set?

Jon Levy:	Let me just put on my Do Not Disturb.

John:	Okay.

Jon Levy:	Okay, so let’s start that over if that’s okay.  I’m sorry, I keep interrupting the flow.

John:	No problem.  So, what types of opportunities has it led to for you?

Jon Levy:	You know it’s really funny.  When I first started doing these dinners, I never thought that it would become some kind of big thing that gets a lot of attention.  That was never my impetus for participating in this.  In fact, when the contributors to Forbes reached out to me to do an article about it, it took me eight months to agree.  But then we ended up not only there but on the cover of the New York Times Style section, which also took me like three months to agree to participate in and that kinda snowballed and garnet this reputation as being kind of a super connector.

	And in fact a few months ago, I was in, what was it, Fast Company did an article ranking me one of the Top 15 super connectors who are I guess redefining the way that people network.  And so it’s had this unexpected impact on the way that the outside world perceives me to the point that Gotham magazine selected me as one of the top bachelors or most successful bachelors, sorry, in New York back in 2014, and now in 2015, L just included me in their list of Top Bachelors in America.

John:	You know I think in my early 20s, I would have killed for either of those.

Jon Levy:	Yeah, it’s kinda funny.  It’s incredibly flattering and amusing to me because of these dinners I end up meeting people who are just so much more impressive than me.  The big joke is that I one day hope to accomplish something worthy of invite to my own dinner because it’s so humbling.  People are like yes, I won the Nobel Prize or their like oh, I have two Olympic medals in basketball, and all I can think is what am I doing here.  If I didn’t pay for this meal, you know, like I really wouldn’t have a right to be here.

John:	And that’s actually a good question also, which is cost, because I think some people might be concerned about this.  So, what do you say to people who say, “Oh, I’d love to do something like that, but it just seems so expensive”?

Jon Levy:	I think that that’s a completely valid concern, and the key is to start small.  So, the hike idea that we discussed for you isn’t expensive at all.  In fact, everybody can bring their own food.  So, essentially what you’re talking about is the time dedicated to getting people together and then curating some kind of speaker.  If you wanted to do something else that was cheap, board game night.  I have a friend, Keeahu, who hosts this board game night that’s incredibly popular in LA, and that just means that it’s the cost of some alcohol and drinks and snacks.  So, I don’t know, probably a hundred bucks.

	But you can create something that would actually have a zero cost like a potluck or some other kind of social activity.  Nobody says that it can’t also be like a sporting team, two hand touch football team or a basketball league for adults.  The point is that you’re bringing a context; you’re creating a context for people to get together.  The other element is just make sure that there’s some novelty to shake things up.  There’s a lot of leagues out there so do something kind of wacky.  Maybe it’s son and daddy team where the kids play, there’s no dribbling and the kids hold the ball and they have to be on their father’s shoulder you know John.

John:	That sounds different.

Jon Levy:	I don’t even know, but there’s no reason for it not to be, anything can exist, but create it out of something that’s fundamentally at your core.

John:	Now, I read that you’ve also gone to the point where some other brands and companies could either consult with you or hire you to help create influencer programs for them.  So, can you share what some of those programs look like or even if it’s not ones that you can talk about that you’ve had a hand in, you know, other types of influencer programs what they can look like, particularly for companies?

Jon Levy:	Absolutely, so brands ask me to consult and come in and speak to their teams or even help them design their own influencer programs, and so that’s kind of a consulting gig.  But the stuff that involves the community specifically is that it was kind of borne out of companies wanting to gift product.  And what I do professionally, which I haven’t mentioned yet, is that I’m a behavior expert.  So, I take research done by neuroscientists, behavioral economists, psychologists and I apply it for companies to help them connect with their customers, change perception, path consumers down a purchase pathway.

	And so it kinda started when a company said, “Oh, we make this product and we want to gift your community.”  And what I know in general is that when you give somebody something out of a context, especially if it’s a product that they have something comparable or better, they’re not gonna care about it.  They’re not gonna have any emotional connection to it.  So, let’s say it’s a watch for example.  And so do you wear a watch John?

John:	I do.

Jon Levy:	Okay.  Now, if I were to just give you a watch, it might be a nice watch, but if I gave it to you and it wasn’t like a personal gift, it was just oh, some company gave this to me, here, you take it, do you think that you would begin wearing that watch for any reason?

John:	Depends on – I’m very materialistic, so it depends on how expensive the watch is.  No, I’m kidding.

Jon Levy:	That’s completely fair.  No, that’s completely fair because we do know that we enjoy products more when they’re expensive.

John:	True, true.

Jon Levy:	We actually know that, and that’s completely fine for you to – there’s nothing wrong with enjoying things that are expensive.  If you work hard and you’ve earned it, great.

John:	But if it’s just given to you, your point is that people don’t value it as much?

Jon Levy:	Precisely.  So, I said, “What if we design something that would give people a real connection to the brand?”  So, I designed an experience called What Makes You Tick and here’s how it works.  The guests arrive and they’re not allowed to talk about what they do or give their last name.  They don’t even know what they’re attending.  The entire thing is this shrouded mystery.  When they arrive, they check their watch at the door with a stylist and are assigned a new watch based on their general style.  Then they go have cocktails and after about a half hour, they’re invited into another room.

	And in this room, there are three speakers.  One is a theoretical astrophysicist talking about what we actually know about what time is so space time and how it gets manipulated and the effects that it has and what we understand based on Einstein’s work.  Then we have a neuroscientist talking about how the brain processes time, how we can trick it and play games with it.  And then the third is a stylist talking about how fashion makes them tick.

	So, we have all three of these people, everybody’s completely enthralled because they’re top-notch speakers, they’ve probably spoken at TED and we have content that’s focused on different personality types, right?  So, the fashion oriented versus the service journalist oriented versus the science geek.  And then we have everybody play games based on time.  So, it’s a race to see who can name more of something in a certain amount of time and so on.

	At a certain point in the evening, we thank the guests for attending and we say, “Ladies and gentlemen, we wanna thank our sponsor.”  And the sponsor comes up and says, “My name is so and so.  I’m the founder of this watch brand, and I wanna thank you all for attending and my gift to you for taking the time to be with us is the watch that you’re wearing.”

	So, now instead of just leaving with something that was in a gift bag, they’ve had this entire extraordinary evening where they’ve played these games because the other people that they’re surrounded by are community members, they’re surrounded by famous actors and musicians and Tony Award winning show producers and so on so they’re in this really wonderful community, this product that they’ve been interacting with all evening and they come out with new knowledge that’s really fun and exciting for them.

John:	So, the point though for a brand or a company is don’t just give something away, actually make an experience behind it?

Jon Levy:	Yes, and then connect with the brand because the person that they were interacting with when they were playing the game may have also been an employee of the company.  You don’t know.  You’re just fully integrated in having fun.  And so it becomes this really wonderful experience.  It’s designed to connect with people on an emotional level and to be novel to the point that they actually discuss it the next day.

	And an experience like that doesn’t necessarily have to be outrageously expensive.  You just have to know who to partner with to create it.  And so that’s the kind of stuff I’m doing these days.  I’m working with everything from jewelry brands to florists to alcohol brands to technology, and it’s been wildly successful and because it’s all community based, it happens within a context that’s really trusted and fun.

John:	And I imagine you have to have that kind of level of trust like it can’t just be an anonymous invitation that you get in the mail to an anonymous event that you don’t know anything about, right?

Jon Levy:	Yeah, well, at this point, we’ve gotten so much attention as a brand through the Influencers Dinners and I also host something called the Salon, which is more of a cultural experience, that when people get an invite to one of my events, they know I’m going to deliver, and I really pride myself on that.  And the unspoken agreement that kind of exists there is you’re going to take your time out for something that I’m inviting you to and you don’t know what it is, and my aside is I’m going to take the time to plan this and design this so that it is truly exceptional for you.

John:	I do wanna ask actually the flipside of that.  So, you’re talking about people coming to the dinner and having a positive experience, but I wanna ask you about hosting your dinners and events, how to you ensure that the people that come, especially in your smaller events where you have 12 people, aren’t duds?

Jon Levy:	So, I’ll be honest, not everybody that comes is the most wonderful human being, but we have a really high percentage.  And the way that that’s accomplished is that almost everybody that attends is recommended by a former dinner guest.  So, once I developed a core community, the key is to focus on knowing who the super connectors are with good judgment.

	So, there’s probably about 10 percent of the community that feeds 75 percent of the guests.  And those people, I learned to trust their opinions because they get it, and it’s also their community so they want the right people to be part of it.  So, they’re not recommending, you know, their friend from childhood who, I don’t know, got arrested for shoplifting a week ago, whatever it was.

John:	Well, that would add some spice to the dinner.

Jon Levy:	It would.

John:	One of you is a convicted criminal.  One of you – everybody watch your wallets.

Jon Levy:	I’ve had people who’ve played convicted criminals –

John:	On TV shows?

Jon Levy:	Yeah, I had Andre Royo who played Bubbles in The Wire.  I’ve never seen the show, but I think he’s supposed to be like a meth head or something like that.  And then I’ve also had some of the cast of Breaking Bad so we were going to do a talk about how to make meth at one of my events.

John:	That’s pretty funny.

Jon Levy:	Just for the hell of it because it would have been funny to have –

[Crosstalk]

John:	Now, I want to wrap this up because we’ve been going for a while, and I just wanna ask a couple more questions.  So, one is any additional tips for someone who’s listening to this who is thinking about wow, this would be a really cool, powerful idea for me to build relationships with the influencers in my local community, anything we haven’t mentioned that they should be thinking about if they like this idea?

Jon Levy:	Yeah.  So, I think the first thing you have to, and I’ve mentioned this a little to some degree, is be willing to be embarrassed and just go out there and try stuff over and over and over again and keep iterating and iterating.  Make sure it’s something small and keep testing it and changing it a little bit over time.  Each time I do a dinner and event, I change one characteristic to test the effect, and if I like it, I keep it.  So, the first dinner to the 50th dinner looks completely different, and that was from what the meal was to where the materials that they needed to traditions that I created.

	The other is it’s important to create your own traditions and invent them.  One of the things that I’ve been very happy about is that I’ve kept a collection of secret traditions out of all the articles.  And it’s one of those things that people get excited about, knowing that they’re learning something secret that they then have to keep a secret.  And so it causes people to bond.  And so we have like three or four secret traditions.  We do them at almost every dinner, and people know to keep that as a secret of the community and not to share it.  And so when you’re creating whatever it is that you create, create some traditions because people love them.

John:	Okay, good advice there.  So, another question is do you feel pressure to continue to mix it up, make it different, continue to surprise people or because you are bringing in new people, particularly to your dinners, you kinda feel like it can stay the same?  Or do you feel like you have to be constantly, even for your own purposes, changing it up?

Jon Levy:	So, every time I’ve gotten a bit complacent about the structure of things, I will get an email from somebody that kind of shakes me up.  And so I –

John:	What do they say?

Jon Levy:	They’ll say something really that could be perceived as insulting, but it’s actually constructive.  They’d say – and it’s my hugest – it’s the people who respond most vehemently in some kind of – and it almost never happens, but it’s happened like two or three times.  And they’ll say like, “Oh, after dinner, it just turns into a party.  Why would you bring these people together just to have them drink together?”  And I thought about it and I said, “Wow, that person’s absolutely right.”

	So, after the dinners, I invite now a group of 60 people, and we have more of a cultural experience.  We have famous speakers speak and live music performances and even dance performances, and it becomes an additional experience that I produce to the common good of sharing and perpetuating knowledge.  It’s called the Salon and its mission is to enlighten and to entertain.  And so I feel a consistent need to iterate and improve.  And every time I lose track of that, eventually somebody says something that wakes me up.

John:	Okay, all right, good.  And then the final question that I love asking everyone.  So, this is your Oscar speech.  You’ve just been awarded an Academy Award, Lifetime Achievement or Best Director, Best Actor, whatever it is.  Tell me about the people that you thank, not just the family members but also the relationships that have been instrumental in your success up to this point in your career so mentors, friends, colleagues, business partners, all those sorts of things, those sorts of people who you would thank.

Jon Levy:	So, I would absolutely without a doubt obviously thank my family.  A lot of the inspiration I think in some way that caused the creation of the dinners and the salons were because my parents would host big dinners.  My father’s an artist and my mom’s a musician and so they have a very creative attitude towards engaging with people.  And so I feel like I’ve made an official more organized version of what I saw growing up and didn’t understand, and my family’s always been really supportive.

	But if I were to start thanking people, there was a – I grew up dyslexic and so I’d start by saying thank you to Linda Messing, who was a math teacher who realized that just because I was dyslexic I wasn’t stupid, and so she put me in the normal math class and that led me eventually down the path to what I studied, computer science, math and economics.

	In high school, I had this awful incident where there was a gang fight in my apartment during a party and somebody pulled out a gun and I thought I was gonna die.  And so I went into school and I started getting trained by the head of the Phys Ed Department, and it turned out that he was an Olympic medalist in Judo.  And so he would run these crazy training programs that by today’s standards would be illegal, like he would walk around with this big stick and curse in Yugoslavian, was that what it was, and – 

John:	And he’s teaching kids in high school moves?  Okay.

Jon Levy:	Yeah, oh, he trained people who were featured in Sports Illustrated and people heading towards the Olympic teams and so on.  He was like a serious trainer, and he led our Phys Ed program and also physiology classes and his name is Ratamere Cavachavitch and just a huge inspiration to me and really trained me to learn how to have will and move forward.  Then my martial arts master, because I studied then for years martial arts, and then from there on, there’s just been a myriad of – I used to work as a salesman at Cutco, and I got a job from this guy, Joe Genelli, and that’s where I learned sales skills and kind of social interactions at the higher level.

	I then had the pleasure over the years of – I was cast as a before and after fitness model at one point for a late-night video infomercial, which then led to a job at Rodale, which owned Men’s Health, Women’s Health, Runners World, all those, I mean there’s just been so –

John:	I’m believing about 50 percent of this right now.

Jon Levy:	Yeah, I really didn’t have this –

[Crosstalk]

John:	You just kinda crazy – crazy experiences.

Jon Levy:	Yeah, I mean I’d also wanna thank, if you wanna talk crazy experiences, the doctor who treated me after I was hit by a bull in Pamplona, [inaudible][00:39:05] running of the bulls, and there’s like a lot of people who I very well might not be here right now if it wasn’t for their help, right?  And so it’s too numerous.  The problem is that I’m so blessed as to have just extraordinary people in my life that I love dearly and I have a person who became a close friend after – his name is Seth Porges.

	He wrote the Forbes article.  I barely knew him at the time, but since then, we’ve become incredible friends and the introductions and friendships that I’ve made because of him I really cherish.  And because of the network effect and what we know about how people connect with each other, I wish I could thank everybody and remember them by name right now, but know that if you’ve come in contact with me and spent any time with me, you’ve probably impacted my life in some way that’s really positive.  So, thank you.

John:	Okay, good, well done, well done.  Thank you, very much Jon.  Where can people learn more about you?

Jon Levy:	I have a website, jonlevytlb.com, J – O – N – L – E – V as in Victor – Y as in yellow and then T – L – B, T as in Thomas, L in lion, B as in boy, dot com.  The reason that it’s jonlevytlb is that I have the most common name probably in New York, and so you can get in touch with me there.

	There’s also an email form if you wanna find out more or get in touch for business purposes.  I’m jonlevytlb on Twitter and Facebook and Instagram, and then there’re a bunch of articles I guess that if you Google me, they’ll probably pop up, and I’m really flattered every time somebody reads one so if you wanna flatter me.

John:	There are.  There’re a number of longer profiles out there, the New York Times being one of them, and all the other ones listing you as an eligible bachelor if people –

[Crosstalk]

Jon Levy:	Apparently, yes.

John:	Jon, thank you so much for taking the time.

Jon Levy:	It was an absolute pleasure.  Thank you, John.

Transcribed by GMR Transcription

The post 089: Jon Levy | How to Throw An Influencers Dinner appeared first on Smart Business Revolution.

088: Ryan Williams | Stories From The Influencer Economy
42:54
2017-09-21 04:57:47 UTC 42:54
088: Ryan Williams | Stories From The Influencer Economy

rsz_smart_business_revolution_podcast_artwork_red

Imagine you had a childhood where you were sent off to an elite prep school …

A place where the rich and famous send their children to be educated. A place filled with the next generation of aristocrats and high-society matrons.

In fact imagine if that was you – and your dorm room was actually formerly home to a U.S. President while he attended that school.

Imagine how that might influence you and your take on the world.

My guest on this episode, Ryan Williams, had that childhood. Ryan actually grew up in the Midwest and had a more humble upbringing but then he had the opportunity to go to this East Coast prep school where he found that life behind the ivy walls was not always as perfect as it may seem.

In this interview, he shares what life at this elite prep school was really like – and what we all can learn from what goes on behind those Ivy walls.

Ryan WilliamsRyan was so inspired and influenced by that experience that he started a podcast – Stories From The Influencer economy – where he profiles the world of influence and the people who are influential in the new economy.

The podcast was also shaped by his experience working as a marketing executive with the new world of influencers: content creators, YouTubers, podcasters and even Gamers who have levels of wealth and fame which today have come to eclipse that of traditional celebrities like actors and actresses, athletes and musicians.

I wanted to have Ryan on this podcast to share what all of us can learn from these new influencers and how we can apply what they do to our own lives and our businesses.

How can we use their strategies and tactics to build better relationships with influencers in our own lives and to become influential in our own communities.

In this episode, Ryan shares:

  • Why if you want to become an influencer today, you must have a social media presence
  • Why he also says social media is dead and it’s been replaced by content
  • He explains what a “disagreeable giver” is
  • Why he says “just because you have a microphone doesn’t mean you’re going to be heard” – and what to do about it
  • AND His advice for if you’re just starting out and not sure how to build your expertise and reputation

This episode is brought to you by my friends over at The Art of Charm podcast.

The Art of Charm is an itunes Top 50 podcast overall – one of the few truly independent podcasts in that top 50.

And it’s no wonder why they do so well – AoC is packed with wisdom from how to become more productive and professional to how to network better for business.

I was honored to be a guest on the Art of Charm last year and I make sure to listen to almost every episode – and it’s one of the very few podcasts I can say that for.

You can find The Art of Charm in iTunes or Stitcher or your favorite podcasting app. I really enjoy this show and I think you will as well.

Resources from this Episode:

Right Click here to download the MP3

Click here to subscribe via iTunes

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Transcript of Interview:

John Corcoran:	You all set?  All right, 3, 2, 1.  All right everyone.  I’m speaking with Ryan Williams, and Ryan, you went to a boarding school at Choate Rosemary Hall, which is an elite boarding school.  It’s in Connecticut.  Its alumni include President John F. Kennedy, former President [inaudible] [00:00:28], Adelai Stevens.  You’ve got a bunch of actors, famous actors who went there.  I imagine you were surrounded by the children of influencers, many of whom maybe are influencers themselves today.  So is that what inspired you to start a podcast focused on influencers in the new economy?

Ryan Williams:	Well, thank you for having me.  And I have actually – so I graduated from Choate, and I lived in a dorm called East Cottage – actually funny story, great segue, East Cottage is where JFK lived when he was at Choate.  We actually had the same room, and they had reconfigured the dorm itself so the rooms were in different places, but half of my room was half of his room.  And so JFK – and I was vice-president of Choate – so I had ambitions to be in politics early on.  I was born in Washington, DC.  But yeah, I think [inaudible] Trump was at Choate after I left.  I mean the amazing amount of people that I met, that had so much wealth given to them, it’s hard to fathom.

	But yeah, there were a lot of influential kids that went there.  But it’s now how I started the podcast though.

John Corcoran:	Did you feel like you didn’t fit in?  I mean were you the poor kid or something like that?

Ryan Williams:	Well, I came from Iowa.  So I was born in DC and I was raised in Des Moines, Iowa.  And then I went to Choate for three years.  I loved it.  That three years formed me more than any experience in my life.  But it was just a different world that I had never been exposed to, and I loved it.  Yeah, boarding school was great.  But I wasn’t necessarily like the poor kid there.  I mean my family – my dad has a burial vault business in Iowa.  It was his dad’s company and I obviously haven’t taken it over.  My dad still has – he’s had the same job for 40 years, manufacturing vaults and concrete products.  

John Corcoran:	Okay.  And so how then, being surrounded by these types of kids who came from Trumps, you know, you’re in Kennedy’s old dorm room – I’d be interested to know, is there anything inscribed?  Was there a plaque outside of your room or anything like that?

Ryan Williams:	No.  It’s under the radar.  He actually didn’t graduate from Choate, and he brought a donkey or some farm animal to a school mixer, back when he – the school wasn’t co-ed.  It was Choate and there was Rosemary Hall.  So he went and got a donkey into a party, a mixer – it tells you how dated this is.  So he didn’t even graduate.

John Corcoran:	Did he get kicked out from that?

Ryan Williams:	He got kicked out.  And little known fact, Choates’ motto is “Ask not what Choate can do for you, but what you can do for Choate.”  And so there’s some controversy about how he came up with “Ask not what American can do for you, but what you can do for America.”

John Corcoran:	Interesting.

Ryan Williams:	And that phrase with Choate has been around for 100 years.

John Corcoran:	Wow.

Ryan Williams:	But he’s definitely the son of Choate that everyone loves.  Jamie Lee Curtis went there, a lot of big actors, but the kids themselves that came from a lot of excess and money, it’s just interesting to see them because they had so much given to them at a young age, and they just partied all the time because there’s nothing – giving kids money and a long leash is just the recipe for addiction.

John Corcoran:	Yeah.  I went to an affluent high school.  My family kind of bought into a neighborhood that had a better school, better school district, so that I could go to a better school.  I kind of felt like – I was driving a 1982 Oldsmobile Cutlass Supreme T-top was my first car, believe it or not.  It was very used.  It was like a beat-up old car that my parents hung around in the garage that I would drive.  So I was driving this horrible beat-up old car to high school, and I was kind of like the poor kid.  I totally agree.  You see what money does to kids, particularly when they’re not supervised.

	So did you see a lot of children of influencers, children of affluent – at Choate who were out of control?

Ryan Williams:	Yeah, just degenerates.  I mean you could definitely see – a fair amount of people got expelled.  So Choate had this terrible scandal in the ‘80s that was on 60 Minutes, where these kids were trafficking a lot of cocaine – Choate’s not going to like this interview, but they’ve – because they don’t like to tell the story, but these kids traveled to South  America to traffic a bunch of coke, to bring back to Choate.  Choate found out, and I think they told Customs, but these kids got stuck at the airport.  So 15 kids got expelled.  60 Minutes picked it up.  Exactly what we’re talking about.  Kids, excess, elite school, drug bust.

	It’s a great story.  And so they did a one-strike drug policy after that.  So you smoke pot once, you’re gone.  And so there were a fair amount of kids that definitely, they didn’t take it that seriously that they were there.  Like I was terrified.  I’m just like, dude, my parents are spending so much money at this school, how could I even screw it up by smoking weed in my dorm?  And people would do it, and they had no common sense.  And really, they had a long leash, and so a fair amount of kids got expelled.  

John Corcoran:	So aside from the kids who were kind of bad apples or who took the money and kind of squandered it in a sense, what did being surrounded by this community – how did it influence your perception of what it takes to become an influencer, to become successful in today’s economy?

Ryan Williams:	I got to – I had amazing access.  Like I spent time with Mikhail Gorbechov, when he came to speak at Choate.  Actually one of my yearbook photos was me peeking over his back, with his two secret service agents in this black and white photo.  So I got exposed to all these great minds, and speakers would come.  It really showed me that you have to find your passion.  And I think there was a division at Choate.  There were the people that loved to make money, and so they went into banking after college.  And then others that figured out a way to do something they cared about.  

	And so I think from a young age, they always kicked around the idea of being open and thinking critically about your decisions in life.  And I definitely think I would not have had a podcast or taken this risk as an entrepreneur without the Choate experience.  Because they were always preaching, evaluate your options.  Be critical, but also open-minded with people.  Having access to someone like Mikhail Gorbechov, it just completely rocks your thinking.  I was 17, 18 at the time.

John Corcoran:	Mm-hm.  So it sounds like between the two, between the make money track and the be creative, follow something you’re passionate about track, you took the latter.

Ryan Williams:	I took the latter.  I mean I had been a marketing executive for seven years in LA.  One startup I joined got acquired by Disney.  Another one, Machinima, it was valued at a$200 million when I left.  And another startup state – I was in the U.S., out of LA, and they were a London-based technology company that I worked for.  And they all were really successful.  So money was never a motivator necessarily, but yeah, I had a lot of entrepreneurship opportunities to make money.  And now it’s like, okay, life’s too short.  I had a baby daughter a year ago, and that was right around the time I started this journey that I’m on right now.

John Corcoran:	Wow.  So kind of like the crazy, radical decision I made.  My son was about – my older son was about a year old when I decided to start my own business.  So what was that like, going from working for other companies that had been successful, to now doing your own thing, being your own boss and being an entrepreneur?

Ryan Williams:	It’s a lot longer journey.  It’s such a long-term end game for me.  I’ve tried to build things from the ground up and do it the right way with relationships.  I know you’re great at helping people, and trying to add value and give to others.  And building brick by brick, it’s such a grind to try to launch your own company.  And I didn’t want to raise venture capital.  And so having other entrepreneurs be my bosses drove me crazy because I would be right about stuff.  I’m very good at marketing.  I’m competent in that.  And they would never always agree with me, and it was always a challenge to get through to these CEOs.

	Because if you’re an entrepreneur that raises venture capital, you’re wired completely differently than everyone else.  These people I worked for – I don’t know if you just read this article about Kobe Bryant that came out – where Kobe Bryant is essentially a documentary on Showtime and he talks about how he doesn’t really have any friends.  Because he’s just so focused on his mission, that he can’t get close to people.  And I felt like a lot of the entrepreneurs that I’d been around as a consultant or worked for, were so driven to succeed that they were difficult people to be around.

	And so having my own business is a lot harder.  It’s a lot riskier, but I get to call my own shots.  So if it fails, it’s on me, and it’s not me making a recommendation about how to market something.  It’s me actually marketing myself.  

John Corcoran:	How did you decide that you would start a podcast, and that would be the focus of your business?

Ryan Williams:	I had the idea for years.  Influencer economy, I started thinking about Machinima when I watched all these gamers and YouTube bloggers making hundreds of thousands of dollars as teenagers, going to trade shows like Comicon and E3 and Pax, and signing autographs.  There was a story where Dwight Howard from the NBA was at a pro gaming conference, next to this gamer, Optic Hex, and Dwight Howard had no one in line to get an autograph, and this guy, Optic Hex, had 100 people deep.  And Dwight was just like, “What’s going on here?”  

	And I loved how these old-school famous celebrities were being disrupted.  I don’t like that word necessarily.  I think it’s over-used, but these do-it-yourself entrepreneurs who were building on platforms like podcasting and YouTube, buying, blogging, and I was like, I’ve got to get in there and I’ve got to create, to understand their stories, and I want to tell their stories.  And so the book, the podcast, all these products, came from just a passion and a curiosity around the topic of influencers and building your own businesses.

John Corcoran:	And you’re in the midst of turning your interviews from, as we speak, from the podcast into a book.  We talked about that a little bit off air beforehand.  Do you think it’s easier today to become an influencer because of the tools that exist in the new economy?

Ryan Williams:	I think it’s becoming more difficult as the tools get more mature.  And there’s a first adopter opportunity.  If you join YouTube early, you created a channel early, like Freddie Wong, who was on my show, he has 7 million subscribers now.  But he was one of the first people to publish on YouTube before you could even monetize, before they had partners.  And you, for example, you’ve had your podcast for over two years, right?

John Corcoran:	Yup.

Ryan Williams:	You have a first mover advantage because you could be one of the first business podcasts to succeed, and you’ve done a great job because you have good content, but you also – you have legacy and longevity.  And that matters now.  Just because everyone has a microphone, doesn’t mean you’re going to get heard.  So I think the opportunities are there, but the discovery is getting more challenging as these platforms mature.

John Corcoran:	That’s interesting coming from a marketing executive.

Ryan Williams:	Yeah.

John Corcoran:	A little bit cynical, I might say?  Or just – you’re just pointing out the difficulty of breaking through all the noise?

Ryan Williams:	Yeah.  I mean my entire business that I actually get income from – because I monetize the podcast in small ways – is consulting with entrepreneurs, creatives and companies to help them get heard.  So I am a big believer you can get heard, but you have to – nothing worse than the term, “Let’s go viral.  Hey, Ryan, can we take this thing viral?  Let’s get a YouTube or let’s make a video.”  And you have to set yourself up to succeed.  I believe the book itself and the podcast – and your podcast as well – is a great resource to give people the tools to arm themselves to get heard.

	So I’m completely optimistic about the opportunities.  I just think it’s very difficult now with everyone talk about – like podcasting is so hot.  And it’s going to be more and more difficult to get discovered in iTunes.  I was featured in New and Noteworthy, and it did really well, and I peaked No. 3 in business.  But to think about if I started my podcast tomorrow how hard it would be to get picked up by Apple, with every new podcast that gets out there.

John Corcoran:	Yeah.  So there’s a real tension – I feel this tension and I think other people feel this tension – there’s so many different tools.  There’s YouTube, there’s podcasting, there’s blogging, there’s Twitter, there’s Facebook.  There are all these different tools that can help to establish you as an expert or an influencer, to help you rise to the cream of the top.  What do you advise people to do?  Do you say people should focus on a handful of them?  Should they establish a foothold on every platform?  

Ryan Williams:	Yeah, my advice is – I teach a class about how to launch your idea, and do workshops.  And so I have a month checklist that I give people.  The first thing is to buy a web domain for your idea, and just get your website up, get an email acquisition button at the top.  Emails are the most powerful way to connect with people.  And then prioritize your platforms.  Images are heavy, so I think Instagram and Pinterest are the best opportunities.  Facebook, you have to pay essentially now because it’s so noisy.  We worked at Disney, and we convinced all these big, like Pixar type companies and the Disney Parks, to spend millions of dollars to acquire Facebook fans.

	And now I would be so mad if I was at Disney, and Facebook’s making me pay millions of dollars to then reach these fans that I’ve already paid them for.  That’s such a scheme.  So I think Facebook – I don’t advise people to invest in that.  But social media is over.  Like I used to be a social media consultant, and I’m over it.  Social media is done.  It’s all about the content within these platforms.  So in order to be relevant, you have to create something of value.  And I think podcasting is the lowest barrier of entry because it’s audio, it’s easy to – everyone has Skype and a microphone now.  But I think podcasting is great if you want to build content.

	YouTube as well, if you want to be on camera and be a creator.  And then Buy In even.  It’s funny talking to biners that have big followings.  They don’t even want to use YouTube.  Like why would they?  They’re making $10,000, $15,000 writing content on Buy In, and it’s so much easier for them.  

John Corcoran:	So you say social media is dead.  So I’m interested.  I want to follow up on that because one thing I’m curious about is not that long ago, maybe seven, eight years ago, you could be an influencer without any social media presence because there really wasn’t any social media.  But now could you be an influencer without any social media presence?  Or do they go hand in hand?  Do you have to have that social media presence?  Because it seems like a lot of the people that we consider influencers today – and I think of a lot of the guests that you’ve had on your show – are people who have heavy social media presence, or large followings.

Ryan Williams:	Yeah, I think you could definitely be an influencer without social media, but those are a rare category of people that have been around, and they have a legacy.  Like George Clooney, for example, is an influencer.  Doesn’t use any social media.  And in some ways, he doesn’t want to.  Because – I had a great conversation with a YouTube manager last week.  I haven’t posted it yet.  And she works with Hannah Hart, who is the first YouTube creator to get a book publishing deal and to have a book on the New York Times Top Ten List.

	It’s called My Drunk Kitchen is her YouTube channel and the name of her book.  So it’s just funny recipes and stories.  And Sarah, who’s the manager, she was telling me that Clooney and all these A List actors don’t want social media in a lot of ways because it gives them metrics, and it gives them numbers that actually validates whether or not they’re influential based on data.  And so she goes to book publishers or studios and says, “We have 2 million subscribers on YouTube.  Every video gets an average of 5,000 likes, and we get 2,000 comments per video,” and she has data that shows that’s she’s actually influential.  

	And I think the rarified era of the celebrity is dead, and that era has moved on.  I talk a lot about death.  I promise, I’m not a morbid individual, but – 

John Corcoran:	That might explain though your upbringing, right?  You said your father creates –

Ryan Williams:	Yeah, exactly.  Exactly.  So we’ve reached this point where I think all creators from now on have to come from the web, and the only way you have a following on the web is by social media or building content around things that you’re passionate about or really knowledgeable on.

John Corcoran:	I want to ask you about the – you’ve mentioned a few of the guests that you’ve had on your podcast.  But I want to ask you a little bit more in-depth about the different guests that you’ve had.  I think you’ve had about 40 episodes so far.  So what are some –

Ryan Williams:	We celebrated our first birthday this week.

John Corcoran:	Congratulations.

Ryan Williams:	I’m so excited.

John Corcoran:	Yes, very good.  So tell me a little bit about some of the – what you’ve learned in the course of the past year.

Ryan Williams:	So one of my favorite guests is somebody you’ve had on as well, Adam Grant.

John Corcoran:	Excellent guest.

Ryan Williams: 	The book, Give and Take.  So Adam really has – like I’ve had the philosophy, and you subscribe to it as well – like we helped each other without even ever meeting.  This is our first conversation.

John Corcoran:	Yes.

Ryan Williams:	And we’ve already tried to help each other in business.  I thought the data he provided around givers succeeding the most and failing the most was game-changing for me.  Because you have to have your own self-interests aligned with giving.  And you can get taken advantage of if you’re a giver.  And also I figured out how to weed out takers more, so I test people with helping them, to see their reaction.  And I can scope out the takers a lot more easily now.

John Corcoran:	Yeah.  You can also test them with asking for help too.  

Ryan Williams:	Yeah.  Oh totally.

John Corcoran:	It can be something as simple as, “Could you retweet this?”

Ryan Williams:	Yes.  Yeah.  And so I love that conversation.  I had Willie Geiss on my show, and he’s a friend from college.  So I got to go to The Today Show office, where he works, and I hadn’t been there.  And he’s this host – he’s doing so well for himself.  And what was great about him is he also interviewed Adam Grant for The Today Show, so we have a guest in common.  And you have a guest in common with The Today Show, Willie Geiss.  The fact that that’s even fathomable in this era where we’re all mini media companies in our living rooms and our converted garages that are now offices.

	That was the transformational moment where I felt like I had everything I believe about media and having a suitcase with your gear, and bringing it to people’s offices to do interviews, is actually coming to fruition.

John Corcoran:	Yeah.  Although I’ll say it probably took The Today Show less time to book Adam Grant.  It took me about six months.

Ryan Williams:	Oh really?

John Corcoran:	Yeah.

Ryan Williams:	Oh interesting.

John Corcoran:	Yeah.

Ryan Williams:	And how did it go down?

John Corcoran:	I first started contacting him, I think, around the time he’d had the New York Times profile, the huge New York Times profile.  So he was just way in demand.  And what I did is I just  used his strategies on him.  So I just turned around, and he gave me his publicist and said, “She’ll get you booked,” and then she never booked me.  So I just kept on referring other guests and other business to his publicist.  And I think she got some business out of it.  Eventually finally she relented and she scheduled me.

Ryan Williams:	Oh no way.

John Corcoran:	Yeah.  I also quoted him in a bunch of articles too.

Ryan Williams:	So you helped her get publishing, authors?

John Corcoran:	Right.  So he said that she would get me – she was independent, independent like book publicist –

Ryan Williams:	Yes, I worked with her too.  She was really nice.

John Corcoran:	Yeah, yeah, but it took a while.  So I just continued to – I gave her other – like I actually referred other larger podcasters to her to get Adam – and I got Adam placed on other larger podcasters –

Ryan Williams:	Oh, like Art of Charm?

John Corcoran:	Yup, like Art of Charm, like other big podcasts like that.  And then eventually they were like, “All right, all right, all right.  We’ll come on your stupid little podcast.”

Ryan Williams:	She surrendered?

John Corcoran:	Yeah, exactly.

Ryan Williams:	Like raising the white flag?

John Corcoran:	Right, right, yeah.  

Ryan Williams:	So I got – I was introduced to him by my friend who went to Wharton.  So my friend never met Adam, and he published a great article about raising a moral kid in the New York Times.  So my friend’s like, “Hey, you should talk to my friend Ryan.”  And I had just published an article on Medium, how helping people succeed in business by giving without expecting anything in return is the best business model.  And he – so my friend sent him that article, and it was like, “I’m entering you guys.”  Adam then responded right away, and was like, “Hey, my research aligns with what you’re doing.”  

	And then I got him on within two weeks.  

John Corcoran:	Oh nice.

Ryan Williams:	And my microphone broke that day, and I was like, “I can’t reschedule.  There’s no way I can get it back.”  So my microphone isn’t as perfect as I had thought it was going to be, so I edited out a lot of my dialog.  Because I was like, “I’ve got to do this.  I can’t wait.”

John Corcoran:	That’s funny.

Ryan Williams:	But I love – I think that for the guests in general, that you get to pick their brains.  Like one skill I’ve realized is I’m a much better interviewee now when I go onto other people’s podcasts – at least I think I am – you be the judge of that, as will your listeners.  But I think I’ve learned how to answer questions a lot better.  Because Brian Coppelman, for example, he has a podcast, The Moment, and he directed Rounders, the poker movie.  I tweeted him.  “Hey, I’m going to New York.  I’d love to have you on.”

	And he [inaudible] [00:22:51] his email.  I went to his office in Upper East Side of New York City – never met him in my life – and we talked for over an hour.  And everyone tells me that’s one of their favorite episodes.  

John Corcoran:	Oh, very cool.

Ryan Williams:	Because he’s similar to us, where he was 30, he had a law degree, and his wife said to him, “You’ve got to explore your creativity and you need to write a movie script.”  And that was – the rest is history.

John Corcoran:	Cool story.  So tell me a little more about some of the other guests that you’ve had and some other lessons that you’ve learned, and particularly, you mentioned Adam Grant.  We should actually dive into that a little bit because there are a lot of people who haven’t read that book.

Ryan Williams:	At giveandtake.com.  There’s three chapters online if you want to check it out.

John Corcoran:	And the basic message behind the book is that it’s better to be a giver than a taker, and you’re more likely to be successful in business and in life.  And you know, I think that the response that some people have to that, particularly if they’re struggling, particularly if they feel like they’re not making the income that they deserve or they need more clients, or they need more business or whatever, is, well, why should I go out and give to other people when I need – I need – I’m the one who needs help – why should I go out and help someone, particularly someone who’s really successful, when really, I want to get their help?

Ryan Williams:	Right.  And there’s – it’s like Jedi mind tricks, right?  You try to figure out – I love how she just – the publicist for Adam Grant relented.  She’s just like, “I give up.  You’ve done so much for me.  You’re reverse engineering Adam’s book.”  Yeah, I think for me, it’s – I had to retrain myself in some ways.  You know, I had to – because I always believed the philosophy, but I didn’t have a strategy around it.  And that book helped me conceptualize it.  My first guest, Bernie Burns, is a juggernaut on online video space.  If you’re a gamer, you’ve definitely watched his videos, and his company rakes $2.5 million on [inaudible] [00:24:50] for a movie.

	He has 10 million subscribers on YouTube, 3 billion video views.  So it’s like [inaudible] for games.  And they do Machinima series.  Very niche.  But he came on my podcast and I call this the first follower.  It’s actually a chapter in the book, is about your first follower, and it’s a great tech talk by Derek Siebers about there’s this guy, he’s a stoner at a rock show, like in the field at like Coachella.  And he’s dancing like he’s hallucinating.  And Derek talks about how, when you create a movement, everyone wants to be a leader.  But you have to be a follower for someone’s movement.

	And so Bernie was my first guest, and he gave me social proof to – I got six guests because of him.  And people heard the podcast with him on it and were like, “Oh yeah, I’ll come on your show.”  And so my first five guests were YouTubers.  My fourth guest was Fula, this amazing German comedian DJ YouTuber.  He did my theme music for free.  So getting social proof and the first follower for the movement, what I think is a movement at least – I don’t want to get too far ahead of myself, but there’s a lot to be said for getting that person to believe in you and give you credibility to the market.

John Corcoran:	Mm-hm.  And it’s interesting because the process of giving, in our new economy, it shifts a little bit because it’s one thing to be talking to someone – the thing people can understand, you’re talking to someone at a cocktail party you’ve just met, and they’re looking to hire an IT person.  Oh, it turns out your cousin is looking for a new job.  You put them together, bam.  You’ve given.

Ryan Williams:	Yes.

John Corcoran:	But it’s a different matter to think about it in new contexts, like through social media or people that you know in your extended network or making introductions or other sorts of things.  You and I were talking beforehand about a membership community that you and I both belong to, and taking that approach even to that community, where you don’t even know people.  You don’t even see them face to face.  But giving in that context as well.

Ryan Williams:	Yeah, it’s funny talking to people that don’t subscribe to that model, and then they hear about it, and they’re like, “Oh, that person thinks like you.”  Like they think that they can give and help, and it’s good for them.

John Corcoran:	It’s funny though.  When you read the book and you think about this philosophy, then you start seeing the takers in your life, don’t you?

Ryan Williams:	Oh yeah.  It’s so eye-opening.  And another aspect of it is the disagreeable giver.  So I had this guy, Paul Jarvis on my podcast, and he’s a guru in self-publishing.  He has a really good business podcast, Invisible Office Hours, and he’s just a really great resource.  Great email list.  And I don’t know if you can swear on your show, but he calls himself – he’s a nice A-hole.  And he’s not going to BS people.  And he’s a completely disagreeable giver, where he’s on the surface, cranky and you think he’s a taker, but beneath it all, he came on my podcast for over an hour.

	And I think podcasting, in a lot of ways, it’s like mentoring.  You know, you get to talk to these people that you look up to, and help your community learn, help yourself learn.  And I told him, “Dude, you’re not an A-hole.  Come on.  You’re so giving.”  But his aura of disagreeableness in some ways is part of his personality and who he is, but it’s also – that kind of person is important to recognize, at least I think so.

John Corcoran:	Well, if he was a disagreeable taker, he probably wouldn’t be as successful as he has been so far.

Ryan Williams:	Right.  And he talks about building email lists and selling products.  You can’t build an email list and sell products to them if you aren’t a giver.

John Corcoran:	No.  I want to ask a little bit about the entertainment industry because you’ve worked in the entertainment industry, and some people –

Ryan Williams:	Yeah, it’s the worst.

John Corcoran:	Right.  Some people might say –

Ryan Williams:	The reason why I’m not working there anymore.

John Corcoran:	And I worked in the entertainment industry earlier in my career, so I know a little bit about it.  Not as much as you do, but – so do you think that these rules that we’re talking about, being a giver, not a taker, do they not apply to the entertainment industry?  Because I’m sure that you can think – you and I can name – we wouldn’t name them probably on this podcast, but off air we’d name some names of some people who are probably – might be takers.  Are they really takers?  And they’ve been successful in spite of these rules?

Ryan Williams:	Yeah, I think that there’s definitely a lot of takers in certain types of personalities.  I think a lot of entrepreneurs and executives at startups are takers.  I mean they’re motivated by greed and money and ego, and they’re narcissistic.  I think any industry where you have a very hierarchical status of entertainment, politics and entrepreneurship, it’s almost like you have to reach a level of success before people start giving back.  For the longest time, Andrew Carnegie or these titans of industry back in the 1900s, they didn’t give back until they were dying.

	And so they transformed then, but they spent their whole life taking.  And I think in entertainment, absolutely.  The structure itself of being an assistant – so I would interview for jobs when I first moved to LA, coming from DC, and I would answer someone’s phone to pay my dues, which was so dumb.  And they told me I was not qualified.  I have a college degree.  I can write.  I have worked professionally for three years.  And then this woman is like, “Get out of my office.”  And she walked out mid-conversation because I was under-qualified to answer her phones.

	And that kind of mentality is so small-minded, and it’s definitely not a giving mentality.

John Corcoran:	Yeah.  I can think back to an interview – I had gigs like that early in my career as well, and I remember a situation where I was interviewing for a second assistant job.  The bigger executives have first, second and third assistants, and there’s hierarchy to the assistants.

Ryan Williams:	And they all wear headsets.

John Corcoran:	They all wear headsets, right.  And they roll calls.

Ryan Williams:	Oh my God, that’s what she said I couldn’t do.

John Corcoran:	You couldn’t roll calls?  Okay.  So rolling calls, for those who are uninitiated, means your boss is driving home for the day or driving somewhere, and you’re on the phone connecting calls for them because heaven forbid that they actually place the call themselves.  And so the funny thing was, I came in for an interview with a first assistant to be a second assistant, and he was rolling calls for the boss who was driving home.  It was like 7:00 at night, maybe 8:00 at night.  And he would be asking me questions and then in the middle of an answer, he would cock his head to the side because the headset was on, and start talking to the boss.

	It completely threw me off.  I’m in the midst of answering a question, and then – it completely threw me off.  But let’s get back to the original point.

Ryan Williams:	No, it’s hysterical that you’re – I’m cracking up.  I mean this is just reminding me of how certain business people don’t understand the long-term.  I think the wealth of relationships is built on the long game.  And what I try very hard is to not ask people for much to come on the show.  I ask them to tweet it out or share on Facebook.  But I don’t want to do a cheap favor, and I don’t want people to feel like they’re doing me favors.  Even Willie Geiss, when I had him on, he’s obviously a very successful guy.  But I wanted to talk about our college stories, just like Big Sky Basketball Tournament.

	Because he wrote about it in his bestselling book, Give and Take – Willie Geiss wrote Good Talk, Dad.  So he ended up writing about a book with his dad, who’s Bill  Geiss that’s on CBS This Morning, and I didn’t want Willie to be my first guest.  I could have very easily got him, but I wanted to have 20 episodes under my belt.  Because I think a lot of people burn out their relationships, and you’re the guru on this – because they ask for small favors that really, they’re cheap and they’re not worth it.  It’s better to not ask really for anything, and then hopefully the person that offers the help, or you just – you try to use the resource and that person as someone to help you when you really need it.

John Corcoran:	Right.  Or turn it around and help them as much as you can, overwhelmingly.  And eventually, they’re going to be like, “Ah, I’ve got to do something for you,” and then it’s amazing.

Ryan Williams:	Yeah, exactly.  And there’s – for me, there’s certain philosophies now that, in the modern era, you have to – that’s what the influence economy really is.  You have to pay it forward because you got up most likely through the Internet, and you raised yourself up from the madness that is social media, podcasting or YouTube.  For example, Freddie Wong is my favorite guest.  So he’s got this video game, High School Series.  He raised $2 million on Kickstart or Indie Gogo – he has 7 million YouTube subscribers.

	And the guy’s perks for his campaign – you want to talk about this by the way?  I think perks are so valuable.

John Corcoran:	Explain what you mean.

Ryan Williams:	Well just in general adding value to your customers and your email list in creative ways, are a way to really embrace your personality and also connect with the audience.  For perks at Kickstart, every time you buy a reward, you get certain thresholds of perks for how much you donate.  So he did this really cool perk for $2,500, you could go to Disneyland with the cast and the crew of this video game, High School Series.  It’s been watched over 100 million times.  So this is juggernaut.  Another perk was, for $5,000 he would – Freddie would come to your front door and deliver donuts from Tri Dough to anywhere in the U.S. 

John Corcoran:	Wow.

Ryan Williams:	One of my tentative chapter titles is Would Quentin Tarantino Bring You Donuts?  Never.  That’s just not what he does.  But when you come from this economy of your fans and your community, that’s your lifeblood, and you have to reward them in ways that are authentic and real to you, to build a longstanding relationship with them.

John Corcoran:	That’s a great lesson.  Okay, I want to wrap this up because we’ve been going for a little while here.  But I can’t leave without asking you –

Ryan Williams:	Did we go on too many tangents?

John Corcoran:	No, no, I thought these were great.  These were great.  But I can’t leave without asking you about being a comedian because you actually were a comedian at one point.  So naturally, my question is, tell me a funny joke.

Ryan Williams:	So that’s why –

John Corcoran:	No, I’m kidding.

Ryan Williams:	– one of the reasons why I stopped doing comedy.  Because the second you tell someone, and you’re at dinner, hey, can you pass the salt?  Tell me a joke.

John Corcoran:	Tell me a joke.  Make me laugh.

Ryan Williams:	Yeah.  [Inaudible] [00:35:07] is just the worst. 

John Corcoran:	Yeah.  That must be fun.  You’re at a dinner table and everyone stops, puts down their fork and waits for you to tell them a joke.

Ryan Williams:	Yeah, Ryan’s a comedian.  And then, “Oh, no way.  Tell me a joke.”  And then you realize why comedians are always on the side of depressed, because the pressure to be funny is really – it’s a lot.

John Corcoran:	Well, let me ask you this then.  Let’s relate it to our current discussion, which is influencers.  So what did getting on stage and trying to make people laugh, what did that teach you that you bring into your work today?

Ryan Williams:	I think I just am so informal with every business pitch I do, and I try to connect with people.  Because if someone hires me, it’s going to be for me, not necessarily the product or the services I do.  I think it’s just the relationship.  So I’m very off the cuff.  Even my podcasts, I was joking about tangents, but I can talk about – like Paul Jarvis has rats.  He owns rats.  So we talked about that because it’s just who he is.  And I think in general I try to connect with people.  And you’re the same way.  Where I find things in common that I think are interesting, and I really am curious about connecting with people on stuff that is relevant, versus just talking to talk.

	And I think comedy in general gave me more of an improvisational approach to business that it sometimes backfires on me.  Because some people don’t think I’m being serious, but I’m very serious about the work I do.  And the job itself is the priority, but the process around working should be more – as least stressful as possible.  

John Corcoran:	Good advice.  Okay, final question.  So this is your Oscar speech.  You worked in the entertainment industry, so you have probably been preparing this for a long time, I imagine.  You’ve just been awarded a – it can be a Lifetime Achievement Award, Best Director, Best Writer, whatever it is, but tell me about the relationships, the people that you thank.  We know your family, of course, but particularly the business relationships that have contributed to your success in your career so far.  Mentors, colleagues.

Ryan Williams:	So I’d start off thanking my daughter, and from there, I would thank Rachel Romero from Machinima, who introduced me to Bernie Burns, my first guest, who was my first follower and advocate.  I’d thank Bernie for opening the door up to all these people that I got as my first few guests on the podcast, back when it didn’t even exist.  I’d also want to thank Big Sharm, one of my best friends who’s an executive at Russell Simmons’ All Depth Digital.  

	His help has been instrumental.  Ryan Stoner, Aaron Dotage, business colleagues that have helped me along the way, and they’re the kind of guys that, if you ask them to tweet something out, to make the guest that you have feel good, they do that for you.  And my friend Cullman Green, my brother Michael.  I have a countless amount of people that have helped me behind the scenes.  And you know getting a podcast off the ground is not easy work.  And so the connections I’ve had, the warm introductions, Neil Ketcar, my buddy who introduced me to Adam Grant.  

	Just overwhelming support of people that have put me in a position to succeed.  And I could list a lot more.

John Corcoran:	But the music is coming up and it’s cutting you off, so we’ll –

Ryan Williams:	Ah, ah, yeah.  But I think I would get a tear jerker from the crowd by mentioning my daughter.  Because I started the podcast and this whole new reinvention of my career right when she was born.  And I wanted to just not be that guy that didn’t do what he was potentially supposed to do or needed to do.  And the daughter, my little baby Julia, she was 100 percent the catalyst.

John Corcoran:	Great lesson.  Okay, where can people find out more about you, Ryan?

Ryan Williams:	They can go to influencereconomy.com for the podcast and information about the book, which hopefully will be coming out in the fall.  And they can call me on Twitter at ryanjwill, and if they would like to subscribe on iTunes, they can search for Stories From the Influencer Economy for the podcast.

John Corcoran:	Okay, and if the book’s coming out in the fall, you’ve got to get cracking.

Ryan Williams:	I’ve got to get cracking.

John Corcoran:	Yeah.

Ryan Williams:	The chapters are outlined.

John Corcoran:	You’re halfway there.

Ryan Williams:	I’m halfway there.  I have an editor.

John Corcoran:	An editor can do all the work.

Ryan Williams:	Yeah.  No they don’t actually.  I was so annoyed.  Come on, carry more weight.  They said to rewrite a bunch of stuff.  I thought, wait, didn’t I hire you to rewrite this?  It was like, oh, I went on the lower payment plan.

John Corcoran:	We need to re-evaluate this relationship, expecting that you would – by rewrite, I thought you meant you were going to do it.

Ryan Williams:	Yeah.

John Corcoran:	All right, thank you, Ryan.

Ryan Williams:	Cool.  Thank you.

John Corcoran:	All right.  Let me stop one, stop the other.  

Transcribed by GMR Transcription

The post 088: Ryan Williams | Stories From The Influencer Economy appeared first on Smart Business Revolution.

087: Ted Prodromou | Your LinkedIn profile sucks (and what to do about it)
43:18
2017-09-21 04:57:47 UTC 43:18
087: Ted Prodromou | Your LinkedIn profile sucks (and what to do about it)

rsz_smart_business_revolution_podcast_artwork_red

Are you the kind of person who set up your LinkedIn profile 5 or 10 years ago and you haven’t touched it ever since?

If you are, you need to listen in on this podcast.

My guest is Ted Prodromou, the author of Ultimate Guide to LinkedIn for Business. It’s the definitive bible to how to use LinkedIn for business.

In this episode we discuss:

·       Why you need a LinkedIn Strategy and what it needs to look like

·       How to turn new leads on LinkedIn into actual clients and customers

·       How to optimize Your LinkedIn Profile

·       How to Build out Your LinkedIn Network

·       How to use LinkedIn to build your reputation as an expert and Industry Authority

·       Advanced LinkedIn Strategies – including how to have LinkedIn email you leads for your business for free.

·       How one of Ted’s clients, a financial advisor, turned a short message to a connection via LinkedIn into a $3 million piece of business.

This episode is brought to you by Aweber email marketing software, and right now I’m about to launch Start and Grow Your Email List challenge – a free 7 day course to help you set up and grow your own email list.

I created this course because the #1 thing I’ve done in the past few years for building better relationships with more clients, customers and business partners has been to create and build up my email list.

If you want to build relationships with people at scale – with hundreds or thousands of people – and still have time for your family and friends, then you need to create and grow an email list.

I want to inspire you to do this – and that’s why I created this challenge.

The deadline to sign up is Sunday, May 24th. You must sign up by then, and then the challenge will start that following week.

Download & listen to the episode here

Enjoy!

Resources from this Episode:

Right Click here to download the MP3

Click here to subscribe via iTunes

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Transcript of Interview:


John Corcoran:	All right.  Three, two, one.  All right, welcome everyone.  I am talking with Ted Prodromou.  He just told me that’s how we pronounce his last name and I’m sympathetic to anyone who’s got a last name that frequently gets butchered so I already like you already, Ted.  Ted is an expert in LinkedIn and we’re gonna dive right into that.  

	But Ted, I wanna start off with just asking you, I’ve got a number of friends who are very successful in business in different areas.  And they constantly – they’ve got like, half filled out LinkedIn profiles and they don’t do anything through LinkedIn and if they were here today they would probably say, “Ah, LinkedIn really doesn’t matter that much.  I’m fine as it is; I’ve got plenty of business as it is.”  So I’m sure you probably disagree.  Why should you be thinking about your LinkedIn profile even if your business is going okay?

Ted Prodromou:	Well, that’s a great question because I signed up for LinkedIn, gosh, probably ten years ago when it started.  And at that time it took you through this little signup wizard and it prompted you to answer questions which basically filled out your online resume.  And I bet 90 percent of people haven’t touched it since they signed up.  And I saw an interesting article last week, I think it was in Forbes or Fortune, 88 percent of business professionals will look at your LinkedIn profile before doing business with you now.
[Crosstalk]

John Corcoran:	Wow.

Ted Prodromou:	So if you have a half filled out profile, it’s like a half resume or a half built website.  Who’s gonna do business with you?

John Corcoran:	Yeah.  Yeah, it just really doesn’t seem like people would want to.

Ted Prodromou:	Yeah.

John Corcoran:	So that’s the main problem is that people aren’t filling out their profile, right?  So answer number one, you should fill out your profile?

Ted Prodromou:	Yeah, what people don’t realize, LinkedIn is a search engine just like Google, but it’s 330 million business professionals.  So if you fill out your profile completely you’re gonna show up in those search results more often.  Which is gonna basically give you more profile views which gives you more business.  It’s kind of like driving traffic to your website, you drive traffic to your LinkedIn profile.

John Corcoran:	Right.  So I wanna dive into this a little bit deeper, but first I wanna take a few steps backwards and I wanna hear a little bit more about your journey because I was reading about your background and I think you started your first business around 1999 and I’d like to know a little bit about that, how things were different then compared to now, and also how you discovered LinkedIn and how you discovered that it could be really useful particularly for people who are entrepreneurs or business owners?

Ted Prodromou:	Yeah.  Well, I grew up in Pennsylvania, I moved to San Francisco in 1979 when I finished school.  Because all the jobs in high tech were in Boston or Silicon Valley at the time.  I said, “Well, might as well try California, I don’t like the snow.”  So I moved out here and I had a great 20 year career in the high tech world.  I worked for Digital, who had the minicomputer, then I worked for Cellular One, I was actually their first network manager when we had 40 employees at Cellular One.  And then I went on to IBM.  

	And that 20 year career was incredible, but I was just working too much and I had two young kids at home.  So I decided to go out and consult because at that time I was a network manager.  And if you mentioned the word “internet” and you could get companies on the internet people were like, throwing money at you like crazy.  So I had a great run there until the dot com crash hit.

John Corcoran:	Mm.  So 2001-ish?

Ted Prodromou:	Yeah, 2000, second half of 2000, 2001 and then 9/11 was like the final nail in the coffin.  It was like most of my clients were small to medium sized businesses, many went out of business, literally.

John Corcoran:	Wow.

Ted Prodromou:	So what was great about LinkedIn, for 20 years I had all these contacts.  And if you think about it if you were around in the ‘80s and ‘90s there was very little email.  That’s what AOL was, you got mail and you were excited.  And we didn’t have cell phones.  Our contacts were literally rolodexes or business cards and all my contacts – I lost like, all of my contacts.  My whole professional network was gone overnight.

John Corcoran:	Because people went out of business?

Ted Prodromou:	Yes.  So I’d have a guy’s business card, I’d call.  Phone number’s disconnected, the company’s out of business and there was no online, really, the internet was just getting started back then.  There were no online sites like LinkedIn.  So I lost touch with my whole 20 year network.  And through LinkedIn I’ve reconnected with quite a few of those people, the key people that I would want to reconnect with.  There’s been a godsend for me about rebuilding my whole career and professional network.

John Corcoran:	What did you do then around dot com time, though?  Because this was predating LinkedIn so what did you do when your business went downhill around 9/11?

Ted Prodromou:	Around that time I was totally burnt out on the high tech world anyway.  20 years as a network manager, fixing computers.  So I loved mentoring people.  At Cellular One I had about 75 people working for me.  I just loved mentoring them and helping them.  So I became certified as a personal coach.

John Corcoran:	Mmm.

Ted Prodromou:	I thought this is great.  Help people out of work, I can help them find jobs, I can mentor them.  Problem was they didn’t have any money to spend because they just lost their jobs.

John Corcoran:	Challenging.

Ted Prodromou:	Yeah.  So that’s when I said, “I gotta learn how to market and sell.”  I started going to marketing conferences and reading sales and marketing books like crazy.  And that kind of led me into internet marketing.  Because I really, I just love technology, I love playing with this stuff.  So biding websites and doing search engine optimization and online ads.  And then LinkedIn kind of came into the picture.  And you know how you get those invitations, you get the email.  “Sign up for this.”
[Crosstalk]

John Corcoran:	Yup.  I remember, I remember getting my first, it was a friend during law school, I think, who sent me an invite through that.

Ted Prodromou:	Yeah.  Or we’ve signed up for a million of these sites, we create an account and we never go back.

John Corcoran:	Yeah.

Ted Prodromou:	And LinkedIn was the same way for years.  There’s no reason to go log into LinkedIn everyday like we do on Facebook.

John Corcoran:	Right.

Ted Prodromou:	And a couple years ago when they went public they started really making the site more interactive.  They’ve put a lot of effort into making – giving you reasons to come back every day and interact with people.

John Corcoran:	So when did the lightbulb moment happen for you with LinkedIn?  Where did you realize that it could be a real source of business for you?

Ted Prodromou:	Well, to be honest I was very – I hardly ever used LinkedIn until I got this book deal.  I wrote my first social media e-book in 2005, back when Friendster was the big network.  This was way before –
[Crosstalk] 

John Corcoran:	Oh, that book must be timeless.

Ted Prodromou:	Yeah.  I just found it on my hard drive a couple weeks ago.  It was hilarious to read.  Facebook was just the starter.

[Crosstalk]

John Corcoran:	Friendster is the future.  In the year 2025 we will all be using our Friendster accounts.

Ted Prodromou:	Yes.  Or Myspace was a hot one then, too, so…  So I’ve been –

[Crosstalk]

John Corcoran:	So you were writing about those other networks then before you really started diving deep into LinkedIn.

Ted Prodromou:	Yeah, yeah.  I just love learning about this stuff.  But once I got this book deal a friend of mine, Perry Marshall, actually got me the book deal.

John Corcoran:	Tell me about that.  So Perry Marshall, for those who don’t know him, I actually have another podcast interview, I interviewed one of his coauthors on a book about Facebook marketing.  Perry Marshall, tell us who he is and how you built a relationship with him because I know that he’s been instrumental in your career.

Ted Prodromou:	Yeah.  It was about 2004.  I went to a conference, a marketing conference, Dan Kennedy, Glazer-Kennedy Marketing Conference in Chicago.  And Perry Marshall was one of the speakers and he was talking about this thing called Google AdWords.  You know?  We didn’t know what it was at that time, very few people used it, it was pretty new.  And he was showing how he was getting all this traffic for pennies a click.  And I was just fascinated by it.  So I bought his e-book at the time and that’s all he had out was an e-book and it was great.  I joined up for his monthly coaching program, he has a $29 a month, he’ll do one tele class a month.  So I’ve been in Perry’s world since 2004.

	And I didn’t know he knew me, but one day I get a call from his agent.  Says, “Hey, would you like to coauthor a book about LinkedIn with Perry Marshall and another one with Twitter?”  And I didn’t even know Perry knew me.

John Corcoran:	Wait, so you weren’t even active on LinkedIn at this time?

Ted Prodromou:	Very little.

John Corcoran:	And someone calls you up and asks you to coauthor a book on LinkedIn?

Ted Prodromou:	With Perry.

John Corcoran:	Why?

Ted Prodromou:	Because Perry had seen my work with social media and he had seen that I was active on other things.  And had actually gone to, it was called a 4 Man Intensive, at Perry’s house where I was trying to help how do I create a social media business.  So I spent two days at Perry’s house.  And he goes, “You gotta write a book about LinkedIn and Twitter.”  So then this was about two years later.

[Crosstalk]

John Corcoran:	And then his agent calls up and asks you to coauthor a book with you.  That sounds like a pretty good investment.  How much was that four person thing at his house?  Do you remember how much that cost?

Ted Prodromou:	You know, at the time it was only like $2,000 or 3,000.  He charges like $10,000 for it now.

John Corcoran:	He charges a lot now, but what did that two to three grand mean to you then?  Was that a big investment?

Ted Prodromou:	Oh, huge, yeah.  Yeah.  So.

John Corcoran:	And so you must have been a little nervous going into that.

Ted Prodromou:	I was, but then I was thinking if I’m going to investment money in all these classes I was taking, and at that time when you took online classes or internet marketing type classes most of the time they’re teaching you tricks that would get you caught by Google.  It was really black hat stuff.  So I knew Perry was a legit guy.  So if I’m going to invest money learning from these guys I’m gonna invest with Perry because I know he’s gonna be around and the cream has risen to the top.  Perry’s one of the top marketers.  He’s thriving right now where all these other people have literally disappeared from the face of the earth.  So it was a very wise investment.  Especially when he comes back with two book deals.

John Corcoran:	Sure, yeah, yeah.  And that, obviously, isn’t always gonna happen.  You’re not always gonna invest money in some kind of coaching program and then have that person you’ve invested in turn around and offer you to co-write a book with him.

Ted Prodromou:	And then he dropped out because he wasn’t on LinkedIn at the time and he didn’t do Twitter much.  He said, “I can’t put my name on these books.  You just write them.”  So…

John Corcoran:	How much of it had you written at that point?

Ted Prodromou:	We were just getting started, we had just signed the contracts with Entrepreneur Press.

John Corcoran:	Okay.

Ted Prodromou:	And then he said, “No, I just can’t do this.  You just do it.”

John Corcoran:	So then you did it.

Ted Prodromou:	And he wrote the Forward for the books, so…

John Corcoran:	Okay, okay.  That’s pretty funny.

Ted Prodromou:	Yeah.

John Corcoran:	But then you continued to develop a relationship with him after that?

Ted Prodromou:	Oh, yeah.  I joined his roundtable program after that.  I spent two years in there so far.  And that’s like $15,000 a year right there.

John Corcoran:	Wow.

Ted Prodromou:	But Perry’s the kind of guy when you’re in his roundtable he has so many opportunities coming his way he hands them out to his coaching students.

John Corcoran:	Wow.

Ted Prodromou:	So you more than pay for your investment in these high end coaching programs the first time you walk in the door.

John Corcoran:	Because of the opportunities that come your way.  Any that you can think of that you care to share, that you can share?

Ted Prodromou:	Yeah.  One of them was working with a financial advisor coach.  So he charges $15,000 and he has a higher level at $25,000 a year where he works with financial advisors, because he was a financial advisor for years and he saw that nobody has any business.  These guys don’t know how to market and sell.  And John, his name is John Bowen, and he basically teaches these financial advisors, gives them marketing in a box, basically.  Says, “Here.  Send this letter out.  And then three days later send this other letter out.  And if you do this you’re gonna get business.”

	And the people that do it are thriving.  Where it’s the old 80/20, where 20 percent will do it and be really successful and 80 percent will complain that this won’t work.  So I worked with John for a year helping him build up a lot of his online presence.

John Corcoran:	Okay.

Ted Prodromou:	So that was a great opportunity.

John Corcoran:	Yeah, okay.  Well, that’s interesting that that relationship has really paid off for you.  So let’s flash forward a little bit and let’s give the listeners some practical tips on working with LinkedIn today.  Why don’t you just start with an overview of what type of strategy people should implement with their LinkedIn profile?  You obviously mentioned they need to fill out their profile, maybe we can talk a little bit more about that, but also what does a LinkedIn strategy look like today?

Ted Prodromou:	Yeah.  Because really once I started writing the book for the last three years I’ve been living on LinkedIn.  Testing different things and as the interface evolves some things work, some things don’t.  But it really comes down to don’t think of it as a sales tool.  That’s the biggest mistake people make.  Use LinkedIn to build relationships because in life sales, since the beginning of time, sales happen when people have relationships.  They don’t just buy just because you’re selling a product.  Well, sometimes you do, but long term relationships in business get repeat sales and long term customers.  So use LinkedIn from that perspective and it’s a whole different world.

John Corcoran:	Yeah.  So, all right.  So that’s the biggest shift that you need to make.  How can you optimize your profile?

Ted Prodromou:	Okay.  So where I start when I’m teaching clients I say who is your ideal client?  Who are you looking for?  And you’d be surprised how many people don’t know that.  They have relatively successful business, some of them a very successful business, but they can’t tell me who their best clients are.  So using the Perry Marshall 80/20, what he used to write that book last year, look at your customers and take the top 20 percent.  What are their characteristics?  How big is the company?  Is it mostly men or mostly women?  What age groups?  So you create that demographic of your best customers.  

	And then on LinkedIn you create your profile so it resonates with those people.  So as people come across your name or they see your profile in the sidebar something will click and say, “Hey.  I need to check this guy’s profile out because he does what I need someone to do for me.”  So you optimize your profile to match that.  And then LinkedIn’s getting really good about putting your profile a lot of different places on the sidebar.  Have you noticed that recently?

John Corcoran:	Yeah, on the right side.  Like, it says “people also viewed” and then it has lists of others.  Is that what you’re referring to?

Ted Prodromou:	Exactly.  So if you create, you have the professional picture in that little image, then you have your name and then below that’s your professional headline.  And nine times out of ten people put your job title there.  So and actually that just changed –

[Crosstalk]

John Corcoran:	Is that a mistake or is that what you should do or not do?

Ted Prodromou:	No, that’s a thing it used to prompt you to do and, actually last week I updated my profile, added another job at the bottom.  It put that in as my professional headline automatically.  So LinkedIn –

[Crosstalk]

John Corcoran:	Yeah, I’m looking at it right now.  Your headline is “bestselling, award winning author of Ultimate Guide to LinkedIn for Business and Ultimate Guide to Twitter for Business.”  So that’s what would appear if you were in the right column.  Okay.

[Crosstalk]
Ted Prodromou:	Exactly, yeah.

John Corcoran:	Okay.  And should you put key words in that title?

Ted Prodromou:	Yeah, that helps.

John Corcoran:	Okay.

Ted Prodromou:	So right now I’m trying to promote my book.  My next LinkedIn book is coming out on Saint Patrick’s Day.  So I’m trying to present that image of hey, I’m a bestselling, award winning author.

John Corcoran:	Okay.  Yeah, and I’m looking at the right column here where you’ve got Perry Marshall’s in your right column while I’m looking at your profile.  Business marketing strategist Jay Abraham’s in there.  His says, “business growth strategist, 9.4 billion bottom line growth for clients, 15,000 success stories, CEO at Abraham Group.”

Ted Prodromou:	Yeah.  So you see, he’s telling you how he can help you or his success stories, basically.  So you wanna catch people’s attention over there.  Because if you do a search for “financial advisor” on LinkedIn and look at their profiles 99 out of 100 will say “financial advisor at Wells Fargo.”  Or whatever firm they work for.  So they don’t stand out from the crowd.

John Corcoran:	It’s just kind of boring.

Ted Prodromou:	Right.  So you need to grab their attention with that little professional headline which shows up everywhere on LinkedIn.

John Corcoran:	And grab something from your background or your experience or something like that that would grab people’s attention.

Ted Prodromou:	Yeah.  And also what happens when you fill out your profile completely, LinkedIn looks at everything in your profile, your industry, where you work, all the different jobs you’ve had and all the keyword and associates you with other people.  Plus it looks at your network.  So I’m being associated with Perry Marshall, Jay Abraham over in the side column which makes me look like I’m at their level.

John Corcoran:	It does, yeah, I’ve noticed that before.  It’s kind of interesting.  But if you –

[Crosstalk]
Ted Prodromou:	But if you don’t fill out your profile completely LinkedIn won’t know all these things about you and who you’re associating with.  So LinkedIn does all this marketing for you which is awesome.

John Corcoran:	Now I guess what you want is if I click on Perry Marshall’s profile, let’s see, if you’re in his right column.  Right?

Ted Prodromou:	Yeah.

John Corcoran:	That would probably be advantageous as well.

Ted Prodromou:	Right.  Exactly.  People also viewed or people similar to.

John Corcoran:	Oh, Ted, you’re in there.

Ted Prodromou:	So the algorithm really –

[Crosstalk]

John Corcoran:	Yeah, you’re at the bottom, but you made it, you made the cut.

Ted Prodromou:	I’ll have to talk to Perry about that.

John Corcoran:	If you could move a little farther up.  Yeah.  But you’re in there.

Ted Prodromou:	No, but it’s really amazing how the algorithm works because it’s getting smarter and smarter and the more information you give it and the bigger your network gets.  So you don’t wanna connect with everybody, that’s another key point.  Don’t just connect to connect because the algorithms gonna start showing you similar people.

John Corcoran:	You don’t wanna connect with everybody.  Okay, that’s interesting.  Because why?

Ted Prodromou:	Well, that’s where the algorithm won’t be as effective for you.

John Corcoran:	Oh, okay.  So if some random person connects with you in some industry that you’re not interested in?  How do you decide?  Because I get a lot of requests from people and I pretty much accept just about all of them, I guess.  But I shouldn’t be?

Ted Prodromou:	I would say I accept probably 80 to 90%.

John Corcoran:	Okay.

Ted Prodromou:	But I’ve been getting a little more – I noticed recently my neighbor works at KGO-TV here locally.  And I said, “Oh, I’ll connect with him.”  Then all of a sudden all these employees from KGO started showing up.  And then producers started showing up.  So I started connecting with those producers.  Then other TV station personalities starting popping up so I started connecting with them.  Now I connected with producers on the Today Show and Good Morning America.

John Corcoran:	Wow.

Ted Prodromou:	So when my book comes out next month I’m gonna start emailing them in LinkedIn and let them know about my new book.  I have a press release, I’m gonna send, so if you’re looking for guests on LinkedIn I’m connected with all these people on LinkedIn.

John Corcoran:	Now is that not selling them?

Ted Prodromou:	Well, I just kind of can send a message to them.  And what you do is after you connect with them you send a little thank you message.  Say, “Hey, thanks for connecting.  Let me know how I can help you.”  Don’t sell, definitely don’t sell to them.

John Corcoran:	Now some people automate that, right?

Ted Prodromou:	Yeah, and that’s a really bad thing to do.

John Corcoran:	Okay.  So you send a personalized message to everyone you connect with on LinkedIn?

Ted Prodromou:	Yeah.

John Corcoran:	Okay.

Ted Prodromou:	I used to have a virtual assistant do it, but sometimes I already knew the people so sending this generic message wasn’t good.

John Corcoran:	So you go on there for each one and just send a personal message.

Ted Prodromou:	Yeah, just –

[Crosstalk]

John Corcoran:	And how many of those people respond?

Ted Prodromou:	I would say about half.  Even if they’re a very high level executive.  Which is another mind boggling thing about LinkedIn is you can email people within the system and most of the time they’ll respond to you.

John Corcoran:	That’s pretty good.  I’m surprised it’s that high, I guess I’m not very good at responding.  A lot of times I just assume it’s an automated message unless it’s – I guess I usually do look at them.  But a lot of times I think they are an automated message and I don’t respond to the automated messages.

Ted Prodromou:	A lot of people cut and paste and just blast away which is not personal.

John Corcoran:	Mm-hmm, mm-hmm.  What about connecting with people?  Should you always customize that as well?

Ted Prodromou:	Well, now LinkedIn has recently changed things.  Like, if you do it from your tablet or your phone.

John Corcoran:	Yeah, you can just connect very quickly, right?  Just click.

[Crosstalk]

Ted Prodromou:	You can’t customize the message.  And I noticed on the website, a lot of places, I saw an article where it said they’re gonna phase out customizing the invitation messages.  Which is really, I don’t understand that.

John Corcoran:	Phase out customizing in – oh, so then it’ll just be a quick connection like on Facebook or something.

Ted Prodromou:	Right.  But I think it’s important to customize that when you can because you wanna let them know why you’re connecting.  Like if I wanna connect with –

[Crosstalk]

John Corcoran:	Yeah, like if they don’t know you, if they wouldn’t remember where they met you or something.

Ted Prodromou:	Right.

John Corcoran:	Okay.  Or if you haven’t met them before why you wanna connect with them.

Ted Prodromou:	Yeah.  So like the Today Show producer I said “I’m an author, writer, speaker.  I’d like to connect with you.”  And they accepted.

John Corcoran:	Mm, okay, all right.  So let’s move from that to talking about how to expand your network.  We’re talking about connecting with people.  Are there other strategies for expanding your network and meeting new people like groups or, I guess groups is a big one within LinkedIn.

Ted Prodromou:	Yeah.  It’s really, you can join up to 50 groups.  And you can actually join 50 more groups if they’re subgroups of the main group.  So when you join a group, like some of the groups have a million members now.  So if you join that group you can actually send a message to those people one at a time, actually you can do a bulk one, just send them a message without being connected to them.

John Corcoran:	Through the group?

Ted Prodromou:	Through the group or through your messaging.  So yeah, you see something in a group –

[Crosstalk]

John Corcoran:	So I’m assuming that you would say that that should be customized as well, not a blanket message?

Ted Prodromou:	Yeah, yeah.  Because there are a lot of people, there is software out there that you can queue up messages and just blast away at groups.  Which LinkedIn’s catching on to that and if you get caught you will lose your account.

John Corcoran:	That would not be good.  Have you seen that before, people losing their account?

Ted Prodromou:	Yeah, I just had someone call me yesterday.  And he said, “I’m in LinkedIn jail, can you get me out?”  He was sending out 150 to 200 invitations a day.  So he was obviously just blasting away and they flagged him so now every time he sends an invitation he has to know their email address.  So that really limits who you can connect with.  He’s a financial advisor.  So he’s looking to grow his network very large.

John Corcoran:	So you just need to add people slower, not that many.

Ted Prodromou:	Yeah, he, oh boy, he was definitely abusing the system because he got flagged six months ago and he’s still trying to get them to release the hold on him.

John Corcoran:	And what does that do anyway?  Let’s say you connect with 150 people a day.  How do you even turn that into business?

Ted Prodromou:	I don’t know because you really can’t reach out to all of them.

John Corcoran:	Right.

Ted Prodromou:	But his network’s so big it’s kind of like who do you know.  So I may connect with someone who’s not really my idea client, but they may know someone that could refer me.

John Corcoran:	Yeah.  So let’s talk about the groups within LinkedIn and how you can leverage those in order to create more business or opportunities for yourself.

Ted Prodromou:	Well, unfortunately most of the groups are just full of spam these days.

John Corcoran:	Okay.

Ted Prodromou:	Because of people like, from Hootsuite.  Have you used Hootsuite to do social media?

John Corcoran:	I’m familiar with it, I don’t use it, no.  But yeah, I’m familiar with what it does.  It’s scheduling posts basically, right?

Ted Prodromou:	Right.

John Corcoran:	Yeah.

Ted Prodromou:	So you can schedule posts that go into LinkedIn groups.

John Corcoran:	Oh, okay.

Ted Prodromou:	So I know people that’ll join 50 groups and they’ll send 50 messages to those groups or post articles every day in those groups.  And if you look in the group 99.9 percent of the articles are never read or commented on or liked or shared.  So I just think that’s not a good strategy, but somebody –

[Crosstalk]

John Corcoran:	So you’d say the groups – getting active in groups is not that valuable a use of your time.

Ted Prodromou:	There are actually some groups.  There’s a few sales related groups that I’m in.  There’s actual real conversations still.  And it’s not just all – because it depends on the moderator of the group.  And most of them, people just build the groups so they can this huge list of people.  They don’t moderate the group.

John Corcoran:	And that’s actually a strategy I’ve heard other LinkedIn experts give which is start your own group within LinkedIn.  Do you think that’s a good strategy?

Ted Prodromou:	It’s a great strategy, but if you build it they won’t come automatically.

John Corcoran:	Yeah.

Ted Prodromou:	You need to promote the group and you also need to moderate the group.  Because people will start just randomly posting content just to get their name out there.  So you need to have a moderator, at least two moderators for the group.  So you can keep an eye on it.

John Corcoran:	Okay.  So if you’re gonna do it just be aware that it’s gonna take some work and do it with someone else.

Ted Prodromou:	Yeah, you can actually look at all the groups on LinkedIn and it shows you a trend on how fast it’s growing and how many members it was.  And most of the groups had very few members for a year or two.  And then they’ll start ramping up as word spreads.  Or you have to do promotion just like any group.  If you emailed them, your send out has to have a little thing, “Join my group.”  You need to do a lot of work promoting them.

John Corcoran:	Yeah.  Let’s –

[Crosstalk]
Ted Prodromou:	They do work really well.

John Corcoran:	Yeah, if you do it, I guess.

Ted Prodromou:	If you build it, put the effort, and moderate it.

John Corcoran:	Yeah, I feel the same way.  I’ve heard people say you can start your own group, I’ve thought about it, but it just seems like a lot of work.

Ted Prodromou:	Mm-hmm.

John Corcoran:	Yeah.  Okay, so any other network building strategies that you would recommend other than groups?

Ted Prodromou:	I focus on really just providing value to people.  That’s really what I look for is people show up on my sidebar, they invite me to connect.  I’ll check them out and then what you can do is look at their profile and it shows you people similar to them.  So you can expand your network with similar people.

John Corcoran:	Okay.  And how do you provide the value to people?  Like someone’s just connected with you or you just connected with someone.  Do you look at their profile and think, “Oh, this person’s a wedding photographer.  My niece is getting married next month.”

Ted Prodromou:	Yeah.  I guess I’m kind of the exception where I’ll send people referrals.  People I send the message, “Hey, let’s refer business to each other,” and you have phone calls.  And 99 times out of 100 nothing happens.

John Corcoran:	Right.

Ted Prodromou:	So I’ll actually send people business.  And I’m connected with a few LinkedIn coaches, too.  And we have the philosophy as there’s so many people out there that need our help.  We could each have 10,000 clients and there’s still 300 million people out there we could still help.

John Corcoran:	Right.

Ted Prodromou:	But then there’s other LinkedIn coaches that won’t even answer my calls or they won’t respond to my connection requests.  So.

John Corcoran:	They’re more of the limited pie philosophy.

Ted Prodromou:	Yeah.  So I just go out there, if I have somebody that needs help with LinkedIn that I don’t do I’ll send them to my friend.  And he’ll send me business.  Or if I come across, I mean he’s a good financial advisor, I’ll refer them.  It’s kind of like a local networking group, but it’s large scale.  So when you help people out like that it comes back exponentially to you.  It really does work that way.

John Corcoran:	And then another strategy that you recommend is becoming an industry authority through LinkedIn.  Can you tell us a little bit about how that works?

Ted Prodromou:	Yeah.  Boy, I schedule, I have my books, I actually hired someone to chop them up into blog posts.  So I’ve got a lot of blog posts queued up and then I use Hootsuite, because this person wrote a bunch of social media posts like tweets or status updates.  So I schedule those to go off, like three or four a day, I don’t overdo it.  So they go out there, they’re kind of seeding content on LinkedIn for me.  And then I’ll jump in on conversations that I wanna join in.  

	So I spend like, ten or 15 minutes in the morning when I first get on the computer and I’ll share people’s content or I’ll like it and comment.  And they really like that.  And LinkedIn even tells you when you post things now how many people liked and shared it and viewed it.  Which is really great.

John Corcoran:	So you look at what other people have shared and then you reshare their stuff and comment on it?  Is that what you do?

Ted Prodromou:	Yeah.

John Corcoran:	Okay.

Ted Prodromou:	Yeah, I shared someone’s, they did a Zig Ziglar quote.  I shared it and over 3,000 people viewed it within a day and I had 100 comments.  A bunch of likes.

John Corcoran:	Wow.

Ted Prodromou:	But then there’s LinkedIn Pulse where you can post your own articles now on LinkedIn.

John Corcoran:	Yeah, let’s talk about that.  I’ve done that a number of times before.  I haven’t seen a lot of results from it so far, I was about ready to give up on it.  So tell me why that is a worthy use of your time or not.

Ted Prodromou:	Yeah, it’s good in a lot of ways because it kind of demonstrates your expertise.  Most articles, there’s so much content being placed there now most people don’t view it.  I mean you can see stuff from Richard Branson that only gets 1,000 views sometimes.  But then most of his content gets like, a million views.

John Corcoran:	Yeah, right.  No, there are definitely other ones like Adam Grant is one I’m thinking of who I’ve seen on there and he has stuff that has 10,000 views or more.

Ted Prodromou:	Yup.

John Corcoran:	So how are people getting a lot of views on their stuff that they publish there?

Ted Prodromou:	A lot of them are influencers.  They were invited by LinkedIn so they get promoted on LinkedIn a lot.

John Corcoran:	Okay.

Ted Prodromou:	But what I’ve been doing lately is if I’m in a Facebook group or other groups I’ll say, “Hey, I posted this.  Can you guys take a look at it for me?  Let me know what you think.”  And they’ll start sharing it and we got about 15,000 views for one of my friend’s posts last week just by doing that.

John Corcoran:	Wow.  And then do you see a correlation in terms of number of people reaching out to you to connect with you directly?

Ted Prodromou:	Oh, yeah.  Definitely.  The more active you are on LinkedIn whether it’s just sharing other people’s content or just being active.  I see my profile views increase dramatically.  And if I’m not active they drop right off like a cliff.

John Corcoran:	Now how do you take it to the next level?  Taking it from you’re connecting with people on LinkedIn to it actually turning into business.  So probably an intermediate step is emailing the person directly or a phone call or something like that?  How do you recommend going to that next level?

Ted Prodromou:	Yeah. That’s where I’ll reach out to people.  When you connect with people you can tag them.  Did you know about that feature?

John Corcoran:	Of course not.  I’m learning a lot here.

Ted Prodromou:	Yeah, so if you look under connections you’ll see all the people you’re connected to.  And what you do is you can set a tag.  So I have my attorneys, I have financial advisors, I have sales people, marketing people all tagged.  Next week I’m doing a webinar for sales people.  So I’m sending a message in LinkedIn using those tags to everybody that I’ve tagged as a salesperson saying, “Hey, I’m doing a webinar next week, I’d love to have you join me.”

John Corcoran:	Ah, so using that tag you can then send the message.

Ted Prodromou:	It’s like a distribution list.

John Corcoran:	Wow, okay.  And it’s like a direct message to them that goes in their little inbox.

Ted Prodromou:	Yeah.  And the response rate’s incredible.

John Corcoran:	Wow, that’s really powerful.  Okay, so tagging people.  Now if someone has, let’s say “attorney” already listed in their profile why do you need to go to the extra step of also tagging them?  Is there not a way that you can send those bulk messages, like you said?

Ted Prodromou:	No, you have to actually go to tags, select all the tags, select the category you wanna send to and then click message and you can fill out a message that goes out to those people.

John Corcoran:	Okay.  Now I’m a big fan of using a CRM program, I recommend people to do it all the time.  I don’t know if you’re a CRM program user, I use Contractually, there are other one’s out there like LinkedIn sorry, like Insightly, Podio, Salesforce.  What’s the difference between these two?  Because it’s almost like LinkedIn is becoming like a CRM.

Ted Prodromou:	It is.  I’m surprised they haven’t purchased a company yet to really bring those robust features, but you can actually connect your Salesforce into your LinkedIn account.

John Corcoran:	Okay.

Ted Prodromou:	And what’s really cool is once you connect it a little icon appears and if it’s gray it means they’re on LinkedIn using that email address but you’re not connected on LinkedIn yet.  And once you connect that little LinkedIn icon turns blue.  So you gotta definitely connect all of your existing contacts into LinkedIn so you can correspond with them right on LinkedIn.  And that even keeps track of all the times you have conversations with them.  Which is really cool.  So it takes that data from the CRM and puts it in LinkedIn and vice versa.

John Corcoran:	So are you saying between emailing and messaging someone within LinkedIn that it’s better to message someone within LinkedIn rather than to email them?

Ted Prodromou:	Oh, yeah.

[Crosstalk]

John Corcoran:	Why?

Ted Prodromou:	Especially C-level executives.

John Corcoran:	Why is that?

Ted Prodromou:	Because C-level executive probably has a secretary that’s screening their email for them.  So if you email them and they don’t know you it’s not gonna get through to the person.  But when you send it on LinkedIn these people are actually logging into their LinkedIn accounts and corresponding with people.  Like I had a senior vice president oracle reach out to me last week.  I connected with him, he goes, “Hey, what can I do for you?”  It’s like…  So.

John Corcoran:	Wow, wow, okay.  That’s interesting.

Ted Prodromou:	I don’t know why it’s working right now, but it’s working.  I don’t know how long it’ll last.

John Corcoran:	Right, right.

Ted Prodromou:	You try to send an email to a C-level executive or call him on the phone you’re not gonna get through, but…

John Corcoran:	Right.  So tagging, so that’s a good strategy.  Any other strategies to help you become more of an authority, an industry authority?

Ted Prodromou:	Well, when you post your articles on the Pulse, so they’re like full blog posts, they show up in Google search results.  Which most people don’t know.

John Corcoran:	Okay.  

[Crosstalk]

Ted Prodromou:	So if you search for your name –

[Crosstalk]

John Corcoran:	And Pulse, that’s the publishing platform.

Ted Prodromou:	Yeah, publishing platform.  If you get enough views they’ll put you into the Pulse directory.

John Corcoran:	Uh-huh.

Ted Prodromou:	So that’s the trick.

John Corcoran:	Okay.  So get enough views.

Ted Prodromou:	But all those posts go into Google.  So if you search your name you’re gonna see all the articles you wrote on LinkedIn under your name probably.  Because Google loves LinkedIn.  So that’s a good way to get really good publicity for your name or your business name.

John Corcoran:	Okay.  And then any other advanced strategies that you’d recommend that we haven’t covered here?

Ted Prodromou:	It’s advanced, but it’s not advanced.

John Corcoran:	It’s advanced to me.

Ted Prodromou:	Okay.  A silly little thing, if you look under connections and it says somebody’s got a birthday or they just have a new job and it says “say congratulations” you can click on a button and you can send a message.  When you do that I bet 50 percent of the time people say thank you.  It’s like on Facebook if you say happy birthday to someone they reply back to you.  So it’s a little way to ping people and stay top of mind.

John Corcoran:	So I’m looking at connections now.  So you go to the connections tab and then I’m seeing three different people here.  One has a new job, one has a birthday, the other one has a work anniversary.  Is that what you’re referring to?

Ted Prodromou:	Yeah, so you just click on that and write a little custom message there, one sentence.  Say, “Hey, John.  Congratulations on being at your company for 12 years.”

John Corcoran:	It’s interesting because before you told me that I would maybe look at the person’s profile and click on the contact info, grab their email address and maybe go send them an email.

Ted Prodromou:	Yeah.

John Corcoran:	But what you’re saying is that it’s better to do it directly in LinkedIn.

Ted Prodromou:	This little pinging just is a quick little interaction that just puts you back top of mind on them.  We were working with one financial advisor last year and he said happy birthday to someone he’d worked with somewhere ten years ago, whole different career.  And the guy got back to him and said, “Oh, I didn’t know you were a financial advisor.  I’ve got a three million dollar portfolio I need someone to manage.”

John Corcoran:	Wow.

Ted Prodromou:	Just by saying happy birthday, literally took three seconds, probably.

John Corcoran:	Wow.  That’s amazing the small little things that we could be doing, it could take less than ten minutes of our day and if you just do it consistently it has a real impact.

Ted Prodromou:	It’s kind of this world we live in now, everything is like 140 characters, everything is sound bites, you know?  Nobody can sit down and read a full article or listen to a whole interview.  A two hour interview or documentary.  It’s hard to do.  But if you can throw little sound bites out there people seem to be – it triggers us.  We’ve been conditioned.

John Corcoran:	Yeah.  Well good advice, thank you so much.  Well, let me wrap everything up, Ted, with the final question I love to ask everyone which is pretend you’re giving us your Oscar speech here.  You’ve just won an Oscar award for something, lifetime achievement or something like that.  And tell me about the various different business relationships.  You’ve mentioned some of them here like Perry Marshall and you’re welcome to mention him again, that have had a real big impact on your career so far.  I’d love to hear the mentors, the business partners, colleagues and whatnot that had a big impact on your career so far.

Ted Prodromou:	Yeah.  No, Perry was probably my first real mentor in this industry.  And that was ten or 12 years ago now.  So I have to say he’s like number one, but I’ve met so many other great people.  Like Frank Kern and some of the big names, Mike Filsaime.  And I just had a blog post on Digital Marketer, Ryan Deiss’s site, he’s one of the top, he has like, 40 business now he’s built from being online.  

	But really it all goes back to Perry for me because he was so authentic and he’s just a caring guy.  He invites you to his house, literally.  He’s that kind of guy so he’s the one that introduced me to a lot of these people and to just mention his name and I can call him up right now and ask him for anything and he would drop everything for me.  So.

John Corcoran:	Good guy.

Ted Prodromou:	Yeah.

John Corcoran:	Yeah.  Well, Ted, thank you so much and where can people learn more about your upcoming book and other things that you do?

Ted Prodromou:	Yeah, if you go to TedPro.co that’s the easiest way to get there.  T-E-D-P-R-O.co.

John Corcoran:	That’s easier than spelling out your last name.

Ted Prodromou:	Exactly.

John Corcoran:	Yeah.  Okay, great Ted, thank you so much.

Ted Prodromou:	Thanks for having me.

Transcribed by GMR Transcription

The post 087: Ted Prodromou | Your LinkedIn profile sucks (and what to do about it) appeared first on Smart Business Revolution.

086: Thom Singer | How to Launch a New Career
43:06
2017-09-21 04:57:47 UTC 43:06
086: Thom Singer | How to Launch a New Career

rsz_smart_business_revolution_podcast_artwork_red

Thom Singer was faced with an impossible task – he had to teach lawyers to be better at networking.

Talk about a thankless assignment.

(Trust me. I’m a lawyer. I know.)

At the time, he was marketing director for a large law firm. But he didn’t get discouraged, he remained positive and upbeat.

Now to make it worse … the lawyers he was teaching were required to sit through his presentation. It was mandatory.

And … it gets better: they were not given any continuing education credits for sitting through the presentation.

So he was lucky there wasn’t a mutiny.

Thoms SingerNow I’ll let Thom tell the full story but it does have a happy ending and I think that story is appropriate because it demonstrates a lot about my friend Thom Singer.

Today, Thom is a guy who doesn’t let minor inconveniences get in his way.

He’s incredibly upbeat and positive and loves life and that’s what I love about him. It’s no wonder he managed to make the major transition in his career from law firm marketing executive to where he is today – an in-demand professional speaker and an author of 11 books.

I connected with him a few months ago and found he was incredibly genuine and kind and giving – exactly the kind of person who I like to see succeed and I like to profile on this podcast.

So in this interview, we discuss:

  • How to move to a new career when you have a vision for yourself
  • How he studied the business of speaking and how you need to do the same if you want to be paid to speak
  • The importance of building relationships with other people who are actually working in the industry you want to enter
  • How to acknowledge and recognize accomplishments of people you know
  • How to create connections over dinner parties
  • The importance of being the “conduit” who brings people together

This episode of the Smart Business Revolution podcast is brought to you by Aweber email marketing software, the #1 most important tool in my business is run by Aweber – it’s my email list.

If you want to build relationships with people at scale – with hundreds or thousands of people – and still have a life, then you need to create and grow an email list.

And I want to inspire you to do it – to start and grow your own email list – but I also want to give you the tools to do it.

So I created a Start and Grow Your Email List challenge – a free 7 day course to help you set up and grow your own email list.

Go to here and you can sign up for free.

The deadline to sign up is Sunday, May 24th. You must sign up by then, and then the challenge will start that following week.

Trust me on this – starting your own email list and growing it is the best thing you can do for your business.

Resources from this Episode:

Right Click here to download the MP3

Click here to subscribe via iTunes

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Transcript of Interview:

John Corcoran:	All right, 3, 2, 1.  All right, I am speaking with Thom Singer, and Thom, you for a number of years were in marketing and you worked for a number of different law firms.  You had this bigger vision for yourself.  You had this dream of one day you’re going to be a professional speaker and you’re going to have not 8, not 9, not 10, but pretty soon 11 different books that you’ve authored.  So take me through that process, and in particular for someone who’s listening to this who’s maybe working in a position, in a career or in a vocation that they’re not too crazy about, how do you make that evolution?

	How do you decide I’m going to make this complete change in my career, and I’m going to go do something completely new?

Thom Singer:	Sure.  Well it actually came about from my job working in a law firm, and I had worked there just a couple of weeks, and backing up, I became the marketing director for the Austin office of a big national firm, and they had been my client.  I sold to that firm, and they asked me to come in and become their marketing and business development person.  And in my second week, the managing partner said, “You’re going to do a class for the lawyers on how to network and get involved in the community because you’re really good at it.

	That’s why we hired you.  And they stink at it.”  So he made it mandatory for all the lawyers in the office to attend this session that was going to be 90 minutes long, and for the record, there was not going to be any CLE credits for it because it was soft skills.  So nobody was excited to go to it, and I thought they’re going to fire me.  And at the end of the presentation, one of the partners raised his hand and he said, “I have a complaint.”  And my first thought was, oh my gosh, he’s just going to throw me under the bus in front of the whole firm.

	And his complaint was that the program was too good, and it should have been two programs, not everything crammed into one.  And then he picked up the phone and called the managing partners of the other ten offices in the firm and said, “You have to have our marketing guy come speak for you.”  And everybody liked it.  And I changed firms and I went around the country and did the program again.  And then I came up with a second program.  

	So it was through that job that I found out I was good at this teaching and training and presenting, and that’s when I sort of thought – I always remember the second firm I worked for, I was in the  Washington DC office, and one of the partners asked me, “Why do you work for us?”  I thought he was being insulting.  I’m like, “Well, I do this and that.”  He’s like, “No.  You’re really good at this.  You should just go train.”  And I literally thought, you can do that?  And so that’s where it came from.  It took me several more years.  I ended up going to work for a bank and then later a consulting firm.

	But I had this vision, because the feedback was that I was good at it.  I started studying the business of speaking.  And so I learned for about seven or eight years what the business was before I ever took that leap.

John Corcoran:	So seven or eight years.  So what are you doing in the meantime there?  You know, you’ve got your sights set on going out on your own.  Are you reaching out and building relationships with other professional speakers?  Are you reading books by other professional speakers?  What were your resources?

Thom Singer:	So all of the above.  So yes, I started studying the industry, and one of the things I did was I found the National Speakers Association, and I didn’t qualify for membership because you have to actually be working and being paid as a speaker.  But I subscribed to their magazine, and I started reading every month, Speaker Magazine.  And when I would see a speaker at a conference I would attend, I would go ask them about their business.  And if it was a fulltime venture for them, I would ask them how they got there.  And I started building relationships with people who were actively working in the business. 

	And I was reading and I was learning.  So I sort of took it from a lot of standpoints.  And then I started doing it.  While I was working as a marketing director for the bank and the consulting firm, I would go out and speak for local groups, at first for free, for Rotary Clubs and other things, and then as a paid speaker, maybe for some local conferences or internal things that companies were doing for training that weren’t competitive to my boss.  And so I started doing as well.

John Corcoran:	So you started with the same sort of content that you were using within the law firm and within the bank, and you were using that content for other speaking engagements?

Thom Singer:	Yeah because it was – I started teaching people how to get engaged in the community, and whether you want to call that networking or just community relations.  You know, my background was, before I sort of got to that point, and even while I was working for one of the law firms, I worked for a couple companies that went out of business, and I quickly had new jobs.  And it happened so fast, like three different times over like six years, people said to me, they go, “Thom, you’re the only person I know who gets laid off up.”  Because I’d get laid off and people would call me and hire me.

	And people started asking me to teach that, and that’s sort of where it all came.  So yeah, what I teach now and what I do on stage now really was borne out of that class I taught that day at the law firm.

John Corcoran:	Yeah.  You worked for Brobeck, which was a law firm in the San Francisco Bay area that failed rather spectacularly, I think, in the early 2000s, right?  So what was it you did that enabled you to walk into other jobs?

Thom Singer:	So let me back up.  They failed spectacular – it had nothing to do with the marketing department.  Sorry.  The collapse of the firm had nothing to do with me.

John Corcoran:	Hey, man, you’re talking to a guy who wrote speeches for a governor who was recalled.  So you’re safe.

Thom Singer:	So what was it that you’d asked though?  I made the joke and I lost track.

John Corcoran:	So they failed rather spectacularly, but what was it that you did that enabled you to get another job immediately?  Because I mean there are a lot of people I know – one of my closest friends lost his job almost a year ago.  He’s still looking for a job.  You know, what was it that you did?

Thom Singer:	Well, it’s all the stuff that you teach, John.  I mean I was very involved in my community.  I volunteered.  I served on boards of local business groups.  I helped connect people.  I was really good at – if I met two people who their company should be doing business together, I would put them together.  And so I was always making sure that different people and different things were brought together.  I would host dinners where I’d bring cool people together, and we’d just have conversations.  And so people knew who I was, and they saw what I was doing.

	And that led to the law firm, the bank, the consulting firm, that led to more business for the professionals that I represented as their business development person because we were an unknown entity.  We had a brand, and I was part of that brand.  And when I got laid off, other companies would say, hey, we want that brand, and they would come to me and hire me.  So I often think, when people take a year or more to get a job, my question is, how hard were you building that network three, four, five years ago?  And oftentimes, people say, “Well, I was too busy doing my job.”

	And I sort of think of like Dr. Phil, I want to say, “Well, how did that work out for you?”  And so I think you have to start early.  Harvey McKay wrote a book, gosh, 15, 20 years ago, called Dig Your Well Before You’re Thirsty, and that book could have been 300 blank pages.  Because the title of that book really says everything you have to do, if you want your connections and your network to help you. You’ve just got to be doing it all along.  You can’t come and go when you need things.

John Corcoran:	So your job was to explain to lawyers who were stuck in the room, not getting CLE credit for it, and they were told by their superiors that they had to sit there, and at the same time, the other problem with the legal profession is that they’re told they need to bill.  Right?  They need to actually be doing the work.  So how did you convince that skeptical audience that it was important that they go out and they build relationships?

Thom Singer:	Well because there’s always examples inside firms that I worked for and also others, where there were people who were extreme rainmakers.  And one of the ways I still do it when I go in and train lawyers, is I sit there and I have them go through this exercise of who is it that you admire?  Who is it that they have the career, you know, they’re ten years ahead of you, who has the career that you think, wow, that’s where I want to be?  And then let’s reverse engineer what they do.  And in most cases – and there are always exceptions – but in most cases, you find people who have been dedicated to building relationships and serving others along the way.

	And then it’s like, oh, so maybe that does matter.  And you are right that that billable hour component makes people think they can’t do anything else.  But they can.  And oftentimes, you can merge your social life and your networking life into one.  So on your off hours, go golfing with someone in  your industry.  Don’t just golf with someone who lives down the street.  Be strategic in who you’re spending time with.

John Corcoran:	Now do you get the objection from people, people saying, “That might be well and good for this other industry, but that doesn’t really apply to my industry?”  

Thom Singer:	I hear that from all kinds of industries.  People always tell me, “Thom, that’s a really cute story you tell about whatever.”  And they say, “But you don’t understand my business or my industry.  My clients are more sophisticated.”  You know, I always talk about like a tall building, I say, “You know, when a client is standing on the sidewalk looking up, they can’t tell which of the two buildings is taller.”  And people say, “Well, that’s really cute, but my clients are so sophisticated, they’re in a helicopter.  They can tell.”  And I say, “No, they’re not.  Everybody is standing on the ground looking up, and we’re making decisions based on how we feel.”

	And people always think that their clients are making somehow these really intelligent, totally left-brain decisions.  But when they do the research, it doesn’t matter what they’re selling.  People do business with people they know, they like, they trust.  There’s always a gut feeling involved when you’re dealing with humans making subjective calls.  And that is the people who can make connections with people, are always going to win.  

John Corcoran:	What were the really successful rainmakers that you saw, that you were holding up as examples, doing that made the big difference?

Thom Singer:	So the managing partner who I reported to, he was really big at constantly reaching out to people in his network.  So he’d be reading a legal journal and he’d see someone who he knew won an award or won a big case, and he’d rip the thing out of the legal journal, and then he would stick a sticky on it and write the person’s name.  And his assistant knew what that meant.  It meant write a note, have me sign it, put it in a nice envelope, maybe frame it, depending on what level of achievement it was, and then mail it to them.  And he would send this stuff out, like every day he’d have three, four, five, six things he’d be ripping out and mailing.

	And somebody said, “Well, I don’t want to mail a thing to a judge who got a big promotion because he already got that legal journal.  He saw his picture in the paper.”  Well the person I worked for used to say, “I’m sure you saw this, but I’m sure your mom wanted a second copy.”  And what would happen is people would call him and they’d go, “Oh my God, I’m so glad you sent that to me because my mom did want a copy.”  Or whatever.  Nobody ever gets – when you send someone a note or acknowledge that they won an award, nobody ever hangs up the phone and goes, “Damn them.”

	You know, people always feel good when you acknowledge what they’re doing.  And so he put other people first.  He always was hosting people at dinners, at his house or at restaurants, where again, he was bringing people together.  And people would say, “Well, I’m too busy to do that.”  Well that same attorney had some of the highest billables in the whole firm.  So it’s like you can’t say you’re too busy when you’re billing less than the guy who does it.

John Corcoran:	I love the idea of bringing people together in a gathering like a dinner or a lunch or something like that.  Do you have any more ideas of ways that people can implement that idea?

Thom Singer:	Well, so my wife is a fantastic cook, and early on in my career, we would host dinner parties, and we would specifically look for groups of friends and maybe some clients and maybe some prospects who didn’t know each other.  And so we’d bring three other couples together, and we’d have dinner.  And sometimes it would just be a nice dinner.  The food was always great because my wife’s an incredible cook.  But sometimes connections would be made and deals would happen, and maybe it wasn’t between me and somebody.  Maybe it was two of the other people who met.

	But I think any time you can do something like that, you’re the conduit that brings people together, your reputation goes up.

John Corcoran:	So you mentioned when you decided to make this shift to become a professional speaker, that one of the things you did was joining – well trying to join the NSA, which you couldn’t yet, but at least subscribing to the magazine.  Now for that particular industry, and you can correct me if I’m wrong, there’s a couple of different audiences.  One you needed to build relationships with other professional speakers, but you also needed to build relationships with the people who would be hiring you, like the meeting planners and event organizers and things like that.

	So without having background and experience in that area, how did you go about doing that?

Thom Singer:	So I was given a piece of advice from a writer.  And he had read, I think, something that Stephen King had written, where someone had come to Stephen King and said, “I want to be a writer.”  And Stephen King said, “What have you written?”  And they said, “Well, nothing.”  And he said, “Well, go write.”  And they said, “Well I don’t know if I’m any good.”  And he said, “Go write.”  And the punchline of the story is writers write.  And someone gave me that advice and spun it around and said speakers speak.  And so I studied the industry and I made friends with other speakers.

	But I can’t just call up a meeting planner and say, “Hi, I want to be your speaker,” because they’d be like, “Yeah, whatever.  Go away.  My phone rings all the time.”  So part of it was you had to build up a reputation and a brand, and that meant I had to go out and speak all the time.  And the more I did it, once I got to a point where I was good enough, where people talked about it afterwards and remembered it, then I started to have some people introduce me to some meeting planners.  Or someone would see me in the audience, and then they’d come up and talk to me.

	And then it was just about the same way you build relationships with anybody.  You’ve got to realize that just because you met somebody who hires speakers doesn’t mean they’re going to hire you today.  You know, you fast forward eight or nine years, I’m just starting to get hired by people who I first encountered nearly a decade ago.  Because hiring a speaker is a scary thing because the speaker or the master of ceremonies – and the master of ceremonies sets the tone for the whole conference.

	And if that speaker bombs, the entire energy for the day could be gone.  And so it’s a scary thing to hire a speaker.  And so just because someone knew me and liked me, until they had seen me and known that I had given a lot of presentations, the best relationship in the world is not going to get you hired.  So you’ve got to be building the relationships, but you also have to be building that reputation that you’re going to do a good job and you’re going to deliver if they put you on stage. 

John Corcoran:	Now one of the things that people struggle with, as you’re developing a career, is where to draw the line, particularly if you’re doing unpaid, in order to get experience, and then you start to get paid, and where you draw the line between what gigs will take paid, what gigs will take unpaid, what gigs will do for a little bit less.  How do you make that distinction, particularly early on in your career?

Thom Singer:	Well early on it’s kind of a crap shoot.  And I think it’s different – I think if we lined up 100 professional speakers, you would have 100 different paths that they took to being able to support themselves off of this.  But you have to have fee integrity in the business.  But that doesn’t mean it’s always the same price.  So I might charge a little bit less if it’s in my town than if I have to fly to Washington DC.  And I don’t think that’s not integrity because I’m not being paid for the half hour or the hour that I’m on stage.  I’m sometimes gone three and four days from my family, and I can’t work for anybody else during that time because it’s a geography-specific job.

	So there’s a lot of variables that come into it.  But for me, I have a rule that I never – early on, I wouldn’t speak without being compensated for a for-profit entity.  There’s a lot of – some law firms and others would say, “Hey, why don’t you come speak to our summer associates?” and I’d say, “Great, let’s talk about the budget.”  And they’re like, “Well we don’t want to pay you.”  And I’m like, “Oh, so are you doing pro bono work this summer for anyone who calls your office?”  You know?  No.  So I had a rule that I would only do it for nonprofits.

	And then the other thing is only for nonprofits who aren’t paying other speakers for the same level of work.  So if someone has hired a speaker in the last two years for the same level of thing, I won’t consider it if they don’t pay.  If they don’t pay anybody ever, and  there’s like a Rotary club in my town, never is going to pay a fee.  But I might want to do it.  It gives me a chance to try new material.  If I’m not being paid, I can do things very differently because I can try stories I’ve never told before.  If you’re paying my fee, you want proven work.  You don’t want me getting up there and kind of riffing on your stage with a story I’ve never told.

	So I want to do some of that work.  But it’s got to be sort of varied.  So my belief is, if they don’t pay anybody, I’ll consider doing it if it works with my schedule and if it’s a group that I support.  But if they pay other speakers, I expect to be compensated. 

John Corcoran:	So it sounds like the unpaid work is kind of like a comedian going out to an open mic night, just to try out different material.

Thom Singer:	There’s a lot of similarities, John, between the stand-up comic world and the professional speaker world.  When you really look at the people who have been there and have longevity of five and ten years, there’s a lot of similarities.  And one of it is there’s a guy named Darren LaCroix, and he calls it stage time.  He says if you want to be a good speaker, you want to be a good comedian, you’ve got to be on stage.  It doesn’t matter if you’re being compensated or not.  You can’t learn this business by reading a book or sitting in your office.

John Corcoran:	Yeah, like being a pilot.  You need to accumulate a certain number of hours.  Can’t learn it on the ground.

Thom Singer:	No, and I prefer that my pilots have actually flown a plane before.

John Corcoran:	Absolutely.  I want to ask, now you’ve written a number of books.  What role has books played in your career as a professional speaker?  Because so many speakers are also authors.

Thom Singer:	Sure.  Well you know, so there’s an interesting thing.  There’s people who write, who speaker, or there’s writers who speaker, and there’s speakers who write.  And it’s sort of, the two are married together.  But it sort of depends sort of where you’re coming from with this.  I was a speaker who wrote because lots of times people want to take something home.  So you kind of had to have something to give them.  So having some sort of a piece like that, there was credibility involved in it, it also allowed you to be able to sell yourself as a speaker because it sort of was able to go in depth with your them.

	And so again,  you meet a meeting planner, you can give them a copy of the book, they could read it and they could say, “Oh, I liked what you had to say.  I would like to hire you.”  So there was a lot of credibility that came with the books.  For me, I became a writer – I didn’t start as a writer – it became very cathartic for me to write a lot.  So I started a blog, March 5 it will be ten years that I’ve been writing my blog, three to five days a week.  And I’ve done it for a decade.  And if you go back and search my blog and you go back to 2005, you’d be like, “Wow, this guy’s not a very good writer.”

	And if you read it today, you’d probably say, “Wow, this guy’s a little bit better than he was ten years ago.”  So the books are part of the package.  I’ve had many clients who buy a book for every single person in the audience.  Sometimes I sell books back of the room, and sometimes I can’t.  Sometimes I give them away.  I use my books a lot when I’m going to do a longer session, and so there’s Q&A involved.  It’s a workshop.  You know, the first five people to ask a question get a free copy of a book.  And a lot of people want that, and then once you get to five questions, the hands keep going up.  	So the books serve so many different uses. 

John Corcoran:	So it’s helpful to have.  And I’ve heard a lot of speakers say that you can up your fee once you have a book published.  It gives you some kind of additional credibility or something like that?

Thom Singer:	Yes and no.  I think a lot of it has to do with the reputation that you have as a speaker.  I mean you can have a book and be a lousy speaker, and then your fee’s never going to go anywhere anyway.  So I kind of have this mantra that just because someone’s smart or they’ve done something cool, it really doesn’t mean that they belong on the stage.  So I don’t think that the book necessarily gives you that.  I mean there’s some credibility with it, and with credibility your fees can go up.  But if you were to publish a book with Random House and hit the New York Times bestseller list, yeah, I think what you said is entirely true.

	But most speakers, or many speakers – I don’t have the numbers – self-publish their books or go through small boutiques, and when I did this almost a decade ago, kind of starting and preparing for this career and I wrote my first book, it wasn’t really common.  Now pretty much, there’s the technology is there where you can release a book 100 different ways.  And so I don’t know that having a book automatically jumps your fees, but if it’s a good book and people like to read it, it’s going to give you credibility down the line.

John Corcoran:	Now what role has technology played in changing the profession, changing the industry for you?  We’ve got social media.  We also have things like YouTube.  We’ve got TedEx Talks that people can watch online, that have seen millions of views.  So you can see more speaking gigs.  Speakers also, from your perspective, from a business perspective, there’s other monetization options and there’s other routes to get exposure out there.  You can put your speaking reel online.  So how has that changed things?

Thom Singer:	Sure.  Well the technology, I mean even from before my time, I mean people used to sell cassette tapes or have to send a VHS tape to somebody.  Now if someone wants to find out if I’m any good, they can log on to my website before they ever call me and they can see my tape.  So it’s changed the way you sell because a lot of it is people are looking for you online.  They’re looking for those videos.  What are people saying on social media?  I think all of that stuff has changed the business.  It’s given a lot of the power to the buyer, and taken a lot of the selling power away from the speaker and speakers’ bureaus because people can gather the information that they want.  

	But for me, I think the biggest thing is, video has been the biggest change.  I mean you have to have a decent video because that’s what people want to see.  So they’re going to go straight to watching that video.  I haven’t spent a lot of money to do a highly produced video because the clients that I work with, you know, that’s not what they’ve asked for.  But it kind of depends who you work with.  So I think the biggest change is just the access to it.  I think the other change – and I don’t know if this is technology – but the other change that I’ve seen vividly in the business in the last decade, is when I started, and I would look up just in my town, just Austin, Texas, I would either do a LinkedIn search or a Google search for who’s a speaker.

	The names that came up were out there always speaking.  It was people who were a professional speaker or at least speaking as a big chunk of their career.  Now a lot of people, almost everybody, calls themself a speaker or a conference speaker.  And so the market has gotten really crowded with who calls themselves a speaker, and there’s no barriers to entry.  I heard someone say recently that speaking is the easiest industry to get into and the hardest industry to stay in because if you can get longevity, and if you can earn enough to support a family for five, six, seven years, all of a sudden there gets to be some momentum.

	But anybody can call themselves a speaker, and what does that mean?  I mean as a person out there, if I walk in the door, and let’s say I have no experience, and I tell you, “Oh, I’m a professional speaker,” how do you know I’m not?  You don’t have to look at my account to see if I’ve ever cashed a check from somebody.  So everybody can call themselves that, and anybody can put up a website, and this goes back to the changes because of technology, and anyone could edit a video to make them look good, even if they’re just okay.  Everybody’s spectacular in small pieces, so anybody could find some clips and put it together.

	So I think that’s the biggest change, is I think there’s just a lot more competition out there.  There was, when I started, people said, “Well, the industry’s going to go away because the conferences are changing and everything’s going to move to online and video.  No one’s going to need a speaker.”  And the business is bigger.  There’s more conferences.  There’s more opportunities to speak in America now than probably any other time in history.  So the business hasn’t gone away, but it’s constantly changing.  

John Corcoran:	Well an interesting thing, this is kind of a minor little aside, but one interesting thing I’ve heard from my friends who are speakers is that it’s easier to get a gig outside of your hometown than it is in your own hometown.  Can you explain why that is, what that means?

Thom Singer:	So the definition of an expert is anybody with a boarding pass.

John Corcoran:	Okay.

Thom Singer:	And there’s actually some truth to this.  If I was to talk to somebody in San Francisco and they were to ask me my fee, they wouldn’t blink.  They would be like, “Oh, that’s very reasonable.  We’d love to have you.”  And if I was to talk to somebody in my hometown, they’d be like, “Well, you know, you don’t have to spend – you’re only driving” – they’d try to knock it way down.  Plus they can see you locally in Starbucks.  You know, they’ve seen you probably at your local chamber of commerce or rotary club, so it’s not special.

	And I think when someone flies in, there’s sort of this thought that we have gone out and sought this person out and brought him in.  And I don’t know if it’s true or not – I’m sure I’m just as good in Austin as I am in San Francisco, but I do think that you’re right.  I think that that is the perception that’s out there.  And I don’t think that’s ever going to go away.  I think people like what they can’t have, and if they have to fly you in, it’s harder to get you.  

John Corcoran:	The grass is always greener, right?

Thom Singer:	Well yeah.  And I just think it’s the supply and demand.  If you’re here, somebody else could have you.  If we’re flying you in from an exotic place, then we’re the only ones who have you.

John Corcoran:	So you started a – this is related to the discussion of technology – you started a podcast.

Thom Singer:	I did.

John Corcoran:	Why?

Thom Singer:	Because I wanted to be like John Cochrane.  

John Corcoran:	It’s tough to fill these shoes, I tell you.  But podcasts are a blast.  I mean I really enjoy them.  But I don’t want to put words in your mouth.  So what was your motivation in doing it?

Thom Singer:	So for me, I started listening – I became a podcast consumer about a year ago when I bought my new car, and it had Bluetooth enabled right from my phone, I could play.  Now I downloaded podcasts and I’d listen to them before, the life I lead, I couldn’t just stick earbuds in and sit around the house listening because I have two children, I have a wife.  When I’m home, I like to be engaged with my family.  So there wasn’t a lot of time for me to be listening to podcasts.  And when I’m working and writing, I couldn’t be doing it.  So I would listen to them when I’d be on an airplane if I didn’t feel like reading or if I didn’t have an article to write.

	But once I got the car that had the Bluetooth enabled sound system, all of a sudden, it was like, oh, I have to drive to  Dallas to give a speech.  That’s a three-hour drive.  I started listening to all these business podcasts, and I was getting inspiration, and it was great.  And what happened for me was I was at the National Speakers’ Association conference last summer, and I was listening to one of the sessions, and somebody said, “If you really want to expand yourself, the best thing you can do is go out and interview 50 people.”  And he said that if you interview 50 people – and you can write it up for your blog was sort of what he was suggesting.

	He wasn’t saying go found a podcast.  But he said if you interview 50 people, you cannot come out the other side without being better for it.  You will be smarter.  You will have a new perspective.  You will see things differently.  And so I wrote that down as a to-do item, that I was going to interview 50 people in the course of the year from last July at the conference to July 2015.  And over the course of the summer, I started thinking I could do this a lot better if I did it as a podcast, and it would be just another channel for me to get exposed to people.  Because the way I get my business, John, is it’s all word of mouth.  So people have to know of me.

	And I’m not famous.  There’s a different business for celebrity speakers.  If your name of Kohlen Powell or Condoleezza Rice or Bill Clinton or any one of the thousands of people who have notoriety or fame, it’s a whole different business because your phone rings and people seek you out.  That’s not the business that I live in.  I’m not a celebrity and people don’t wake up in the middle of the night and say, “My conference needs Thom Singer.”  So the podcast was just another vehicle that I could use to do that.  And I could learn.  And I tell you, it’s the single best thing I’ve ever done.

John Corcoran:	Wow, that’s high praise.

Thom Singer:	Well, and let me tell you why.  Because I’ve been teaching networking skills for a decade, and I have never found a tool that allows me to connect [inaudible] [00:28:13] than my podcast because I can call people up and say, “I would like to interview you for my podcast,” and not everybody says yes.  But everybody will call me back and at least say no or tell me why they can’t do it or whatever.  Most people say yes, and then we sit down and have conversations like you and I are having.  And once you’ve talked to somebody for 30 minutes, you have sort of a foundation of a relationship.  

	And that doesn’t mean everybody becomes my best friend, but I interviewed somebody – I interviewed Jordan from The Art of Charm the other day, and we had a delightful conversation.  Now it doesn’t mean that I’m going to become his best friend, but if he was to come to  Austin for South by Southwest, and I saw on Twitter or Facebook that he was there, and I was to say, “Hey, I interviewed you for my show back in February or March – or I’m sorry, January, and this is now March, do you want to grab a beer?” the odds are he would say yes.

	Whereas if I was just some yoho who said, “Hey, you want to grab a beer?” he probably would say yes, but you know, other people might not.  So it’s a great way to build a foundation to build upon later if your paths continue to cross. 

John Corcoran:	It’s actually a good example because I first met Jordan through being a guest on his podcast.  He’s been on my podcast.  We’ve done business together, and I’m actually meeting up with him for dinner tonight.  So small world.

Thom Singer:	Well, and that’s how you and I met essentially, is you had sent me something.  We had met online I think through Twitter, and I started listening to your show.  And I sent you a note saying, “Good show,” and then you were like, “Oh, we had talked before.”  And then we had a phone conversation.  Now I’m on your show.  I want to have you on my show down the line.  And all of a sudden, that’s how you start a relationship.  And so now all of a sudden, I venture to say we’re becoming friends.  And with that, I’m able to do this with people in different industries.  I interviewed someone the other day and he was the CEO of a big company, and as soon as it was over, he said, “Tell me more about what you do.”

	And I told him, and he said, “I’m on the board of an association for my industry.  Is that the type of conference, like an association, you would speak to?”  And I said, “Yeah, like exactly.”  And he goes, “Well, send me an email with everything you do and I’ll give it to the executive director.”  He goes, “I’d love to have you speak at the conference.”  It doesn’t mean it’ll happen, but that led to the type of conversation that can advance business.  So it all started with the idea of go out and interview people because hopefully I would get smarter.  But it has so many tentacles, it’s unreal.

John Corcoran:	Yeah, I totally agree.  So let’s break it down in a practical way for someone who’s listening to this – and we’ve got a variety of different interests represented.  I’ve received emails in the last couple weeks, one guys who’s a scout for a professional sports baseball team.

Thom Singer:	That’s cool.

John Corcoran:	Yeah, that’s cool.

Thom Singer:	That’s very cool.

John Corcoran:	Another guy works in the Corvette factory, and he offered – he said if I’m ever in Tennessee, I could do a tour of the Corvette factory, which is pretty cool.  I’m a fan of –

Thom Singer:	That’s very cool.

John Corcoran:	Yeah, exactly.  So we have people in all kinds of industries.  We’ve got lawyers, accountants, CPAs –

Thom Singer:	Although, let me tell you.  If you’re about our age, you grew up,  you were one of three things.  You were a Corvette guy, you were a Camaro guy or you were a Mustang guy.

John Corcoran:	Yeah, those are all cool cars.

Thom Singer:	And I’m a Mustang guy.  So I want the tour of the Ford factory.

John Corcoran:	My best friend in high school had an ’84 Camaro that he was driving around.  It was not cool.  It had jumped the shark by that point, by the time he was driving it.  So but let’s break it down for them.  I mean if someone’s thinking about the idea of starting a podcast – well first of all, one point I give to everyone is that you can do interviews whether you start a podcast or not.  Because a lot of times, people struggle with that.  But if they did want to start a podcast for their industry, how do they go about doing it, and how do they get people to come on?

Thom Singer:	Well, I think the first thing you have to do is you have to become a consumer of the medium.  I mean listen to a handful of shows.  You know, I listened to several shows before I got to the point where I was comfortable in what I wanted to do, and figured out what my voice would be.  So figure out, do you want to do a podcast where you’re just talking yourself?  Do you want to have a partner where the two of you banter?  Do you want to bring guests on?  Figure out sort of what that is.  And there’s so many different ways as far as the equipment and the way you can record it and the way you can edit it.

	You know, you’ve got to do the research and get comfortable with it.  That was what kept me from doing it.  I had thought about it maybe a year earlier, but I was kind of scared of the technology.  And once I did some research and talked to people who were podcasting, it was kind of like getting into the speaking business.  I talked to people who did it.  It took away the fear because there were other carbon-based life forms who were doing it, and if they could do it, I probably could figure it out.  So that’s the first thing.  And you know, you said how do you ask people to be on?  You just send them an email or call them and ask them.  

	People are usually flattered that you want to tap into their expertise.  

John Corcoran:	Right.  Excellent.  Well, Thom, I’ve taken a lot of your time here, and I want to thank you for coming on this show.  I really enjoyed talking to you.  And last question, which I love to ask people, which is tell us about some of the relationships over the years that have made a big impact in your success.  So it could be mentors, it could be business partners, it could be friends, it could be professors from college.  You name it.  Some of the people that have had a big impact on your career.

Thom Singer:	Well, I’ve been very fortunate.  I’ve had really good people in my life.  I mean my parents and my siblings, I just – I mean I’ve been very fortunate when it comes to relationships, and I do understand and realize that not everybody has great relationships in their lives, and not everybody is given a foundation like my mom and dad gave me.  My mom was really social.  My dad was a really good friend to the people that he knew.  They were very good at raising my brothers and I to belong.  And I was much younger, and so my brothers were like, “Why do” – you know, they’d be 15, 18 years old, “Why do I want to hang out with a 4-year-old?”

	And my parents were very good about, “Hey, he’s your brother.  That’s what it is.  Take him to the park.”  And so I think I was given – my mom came from a big Irish Catholic family, so I think I was given an example of sort of that big social community right from the start.  And I mean I could talk for another half hour just naming people.  But three things come to mind.  One is my wife and my children.  Really I couldn’t have made the leap from sort of a corporate marketing executive job to working for myself because it wasn’t like I jumped out to become a speaker and made the same level of money.

	We hemorrhaged cash for a couple of years, and that’s a little piece of the story that a lot of people leave out, is you see them starting to have success and they don’t talk about the fact that they made a lot of mistakes and they had a lot of debt and credit card and failures.  But [inaudible] [00:34:47] and my kids, they realized what I was doing.  My wife, from the beginning said, “He’s happier doing this, so let’s go for the ride and figure it out.”  So she was really supportive.

	I travel a lot, so the kids have to be on board, or they could be really pissy about it.  And they understand if I’m speaking on their birthday, they realize they’re getting a bigger present.  No, they realize that’s how we pay for the food here.  So that’s the first thing.  The second one is I lived in the lucky dorm is the way I look at it.  I live next door to a guy, the first person, maybe second person I met in 1984 at San Diego State University, the first or second person I met is still one of my best friends today.  He is the godfather to my oldest daughter.

	He and I own the publishing company that does my books, but also so many other people’s books.  He invested in me.  When I said I wanted to do this, he said, “What can I do to help make this happen?”  And you know, we all should have friends who are willing to put in time and money and blood, sweat and tears, to support you in that manner.  

John Corcoran:	Wow.

Thom Singer:	And I have lots of friends who have done that.  I mean I hate to just mention Dave because other friends will be like, “Hey, I was there for you too,” and they were.  But  Dave and I have owned a business together now for a number of years, and he’s the first  person who wants to know when I book a speech, besides probably my wife and kids, because he takes my success as his success, and not because he gets a cut of it, but because that’s the type of friend he is.  And we’ve been friends since we were 18 years old, and I don’t even remember – I don’t remember my life when he wasn’t like one of my brothers.

	And so having a friend like that and then several friends like that was important.  And then finally, and I said it earlier, it was joining the National Speakers’ Association.  I’m a joiner.  I mean I’ll be really honest.  If I was a locksmith, I would be a member of the National Locksmith Association.  

John Corcoran:	That’s a good group.  I’ve heard really good things.

Thom Singer:	Yeah, exactly.

John Corcoran:	I have no clue.

Thom Singer:	No, but they’re a real group, and I’m sure if you’re a locksmith, they’re fantastic.  But supporting your trade organization and showing up and building friendships – I talk to people all the time who are like, “Why do you do that?  Why would you hang out with your competitors?  I only go where people I can sell to are.”  And I just think, yucky.  If everybody you meet you judge them as do they have a pork chop hanging around their neck, and you’re a hungry wolf who hasn’t eaten in a month, that’s just a yucky relationship.  And so the people at NSA, they invited me in.

	Nobody said, oh how cute.  He wants to be a speaker.  Go away, you bother me.  They were like, okay, well here’s – there’s a lot of different paths.  And I made friends, not with the celebrity speakers, but I made friends with the people who were like me, who were one or two years into the business, who were trying to figure it out, and not everybody made it.  But I fast forward six years, and some of the best friends I’ve ever had in my life – I mean people stay at my house when they come to Austin to speak.  We go eat at the Salt Lake for dinner or my family, we visit them when we’re on family vacations if they live in – if some of these people live in that area, they’ll come meet us.

	I just got really fortunate that I fell in with a good crowd.  You always hear about people, teenagers falling in with a bad crowd.  I fell in with a good crowd.  And so I always recommend, no matter what industry you’re doing, go be part of it.  Be supportive.  And that’s what I did.  I just showed up at NSA as just, I’m here.  I tried to do what I could, and then over time, I’ve developed these referral relationships, where I refer other speakers, they refer me, and it’s grown my business.

John Corcoran:	Great stuff, Thom.  So where can people learn more about you?  And tell us about the next book you have coming out.

Thom Singer:	So the next book is The ABCs of Legal Marketing, and everybody laughs at me that this should have been the first book because this whole thing started in legal marketing, and I never wrote the legal marketing book.  So it’s a little tips book.  You know, A is for analytics, B is for brand.  Every letter of the alphabet is a different little short essay.  It’s the fifth book in my little ABCs little tips book series.  So when people say I have 11 books, some of them are small.  The ABCs ones are little.

	So that.  And if anybody wants information, everything’s at thomsinger.com.  From there you can find my podcast, cool things entrepreneurs do.  From there you can find my books.  You can find my speaking information, whatever.  My Twitter, everything is sort of based out of thomsinger.com.

John Corcoran:	And it’s Thom with an H, T-H-O-M.

Thom Singer:	It’s T-H-O-M-S-I-N-G-E-R, but I’ll tell your listeners a little secret.  I own Tom Singer, T-O-M-S-I-N-G-E-R, so if you spell Tom the more traditional way – although Thomas has an H.  I don’t know when people shortened it why they took the H out of Thomas.  I just got rid of the ass.

John Corcoran:	Big conspiracy.  Yeah.

Thom Singer:	That’s right.

John Corcoran:	Well, you got both domains, so that’s very good.

Thom Singer:	Yeah, so I redirect T-O-M to T-H-O-M.  So you’ll find me either way.

John Corcoran:	Makes it easier.  Okay, great.  Excellent, Thom.  Thank you very much.

Thom Singer:	Thanks, John.

Transcribed by GMR Transcription

The post 086: Thom Singer | How to Launch a New Career appeared first on Smart Business Revolution.

085: Michelle Tillis Lederman | The 11 Laws of Likability
40:27
2017-09-21 04:57:47 UTC 40:27
085: Michelle Tillis Lederman | The 11 Laws of Likability

rsz_smart_business_revolution_podcast_artwork_redImagine for a second if you could magically make yourself more likeable…

Imagine if you had a formula that broke down the elements of how to make more people like you, so that you could literally turn on the charm, even if you feel a little introverted or shy … wouldn’t that be amazing?

It would be a huge game changer.

Imagine how many more clients you’d land. Imagine how much easier it would be to develop relationships with people who matter to your career. Imagine what it would do for your business.

Alright, I’m exaggerating just a bit, but my guest on this episode of the Smart Business Revolution podcast has basically broken down the formula for likability.

Michelle LedermanMy guest is Michelle Tillis Lederman (pronounced like “Letterman”) – a speaker, trainer, coach, and author of the book The 11 Laws of Likability: Relationship Networking . . . Because People Do Business with People They Like (referral link).

I invited Michelle on this podcast to break down the elements of likability for all of us. And in this interview, she explains the various laws of likability, including the law of authenticity and the law of similarity and the law of giving.

Michelle breaks down these laws into very actionable and specific advice and tips for ways you can improve your own likability, which will in turn improve the quality of your relationships and help you to grow your revenue.

So listen closely as this is one of the most actionable interviews I’ve done so far.

This episode of the Smart Business Revolution podcast is brought to you by Aweber email marketing software.

Aweber is probably the #1 most important tool for my business today because it has created tremendous freedom. And it’s allowed me to build relationships with thousands of people at scale – many, many more than I could ever build relationships with without an email list.

I can’t imagine doing business today without my Aweber email list.

But I want to light a fire under you – I want to inspire you and give you the tools to do the same thing.

So I created a Start and Grow Your Email List challenge.

This is a completely free, 7-day course to help you set up and grow your own email list.

I invite you to join me in this challenge right now – go sign up right now. The deadline to sign up is Friday, May 22nd.

Trust me on this – setting up your own email list is the best thing you can do for your business, for your income, and for your family.

And now, here is Michelle Lederman. Enjoy!

Resources from this Episode:

Right Click here to download the MP3

Click here to subscribe via iTunes

Advertise on the Smart Business Revolution podcast

The post 085: Michelle Tillis Lederman | The 11 Laws of Likability appeared first on Smart Business Revolution.

084: Mike Muhney | The Godfather of the $20 Billion Relationship Management Software Industry
51:29
2017-09-21 04:57:47 UTC 51:29
084: Mike Muhney | The Godfather of the $20 Billion Relationship Management Software Industry

rsz_smart_business_revolution_podcast_artwork_redThe year was 1986.  Mike Muhney’s new startup was on the brink of failure.

He and his co-founder were down to their last $15,000 and they had just decided they had to pull the plug on the software product they had been developing for the previous 9 months.

They were ready to go back to the corporate world, give up on their dream of being entrepreneurs and running their own company.

But before they did, they decided to go back to the drawing board one last time. They did one 4-hour long brainstorming session, during which they came up with a totally different idea, a complete pivot from what they were Mike Muhneypursuing.

The only hitch was, their angel investor was flying in from Boston to Dallas a few weeks later, and they would have to convince him of the new idea first.

So flash forward a few weeks and the investor flies in and Mike and his co-founder take the investor out to lunch.

He and his co-founder explain that they had nothing to show for $85K of the angel investor’s money. They tell him that their previous idea was dead in the water.

But they said they had a brand new idea for a brand new type of software – something that had never been done before.

It was called relationship management software. Also know as CRM or customer relationship management software.

It was a simple idea – software that allows you to manage your relationships, make sure your relationships don’t go cold, and increase income from your contacts and your network.

I’ll let Mike tell you in this interview what the investor said during that lunch, but long story short, Mike’s idea became ACT! software and was the first of its kind and invented an entire new software category.

Today, CRM software is a $20 billion dollar industry.

In fact, major public companies like Salesforce and NetSuite are built on providing CRM Software and other billion-dollar software companies like Microsoft, Oracle and SAP all provide CRM solutions.

Years ago, this software was used just by sales people.

Today, as our economy has changed and people have become less likely to work in one company for their entire career, more people have come to use the software.

Newer companies like Contactually (review of how I use Contactually here), Insightly, and Muhney’s own Vipor CRM are helping professionals to manage their relationships, keep in touch with people in their network, and most importantly, increase their revenue and income.

In this interview, Mike shares the story of how CRM software was invented and explains how using a software to keep track of your relationships may be one of the wisest things you can do.

This episode of the Smart Business Revolution podcast is brought to you by Aweber email marketing software.

Aweber is probably the #1 most important tool for my business today because it has created tremendous freedom. I can’t imagine doing business without it.

Right now they have a completely free trial so you can try it out free for 30 days.

Go to Aweber and set up your free 30-day trial today.

You owe it to yourself, to your family to try it out. You will not be sorry.

Enjoy!

Resources from this Episode:

Right Click here to download the MP3

Click here to subscribe via iTunes

Advertise on the Smart Business Revolution podcast

Transcript of Interview:

John Corcoran:	Mike, how do you pronounce your last name?

Mike Muhney:	Thanks for asking.  Muhney, like muni bond, a municipal bond.

John:	Or the muni bus in San Francisco.

Mike Muhney:	Right.

John:	All right.  Three, two, one.  All right, I’m talking with Mike Muhney, the CEO of Vipor CRM Software.  Mike, this is going to be the most boring episode ever, right?

Mike Muhney:	Of course.

John:	We’re just going to talk about software, relationship software.  No.  It’s going to be more interesting than that, I think.  Let’s just start from there.  Why is it important at all to use software to manage your relationships?  I’m sure there are a lot of people that say to you that seems wrong, like sleazy, like I’m doing something wrong if I’m needing software to manage my relationships.

Mike Muhney:	Sure.  First of all, thanks for having me on, John.  I appreciate it very much.

	The answer to the question, to begin, is that all of these kinds of software products that revolve around relationships are nothing more than tools.  What they’re all dependent on are the attitudes of the people and the principles with which they abide in how they view people, treat people, and work to develop their own reputation as is determined in the perspectives and minds of the people based on how well I manage myself.  They’re nothing more than tools to help me manage myself better.

	We all live in a multi-screen world today.  Multiple devices, of course, and there’s no reason to not have everything with me that I know about everybody that are across my various networks, both personal and business.  Why?  Because I want to distinguish myself.

	How valuable is it – I might even add price lists – at times is it to remember that one little sliver of information that helps distinguish yourself in the mind of the person you’re dealing with that may have told that same thing to other people, but you’re the one that remembered it, and it doesn’t take much for people to go, “Wow.  This person has either a good memory, or they care.  They showed that it was important enough to remember it.”  There begins the process of developing that likeability factor and trust factor.

John:	You’re relatively new to this whole industry, right?  This is a relatively new area of interest of yours, right?

Mike Muhney:	Well –

John:	Joking of course.

Mike Muhney:	Yes, new if new constitutes the last 30 years of my life.  Yes.

John:	CRM software didn’t exist at one point.  It’s kind of hard to imagine at this point because there’s a lot of them out there.  I think it’s an exciting time because it means competition for you in your current business, but I think there’s a greater realization of the importance of relationships in business, especially as the internet becomes more anonymous, and we realize the importance of relationships.

	Let me take you back in time.  You are actually the founder of ACT! Software, which is basically the first CRM software ever.  You are the godfather.

Mike Muhney:	I have been referred to as the godfather.  ACT! was actually invented by two of us, myself, and my business partner at the time.  Both of us were career sales guys.  I started my career with IBM in the mainframe era.  That era was a paper era.  We all had Day-Timers, paper systems to keep our calendars in order, and whatever business cards we fit into it.  We were both looking for something that would help us be better in our own jobs in light of this new unfolding industry called the PC industry.

	A little bit more depth to the story, John, kind of the nickel tour if you will, was that we started our company, and developed another product, and raised $100,000.00 of angel money from a guy out of Boston, and $85,000.00 later, we literally said to each other, “This dog ain’t going to hunt.  We’re dead.”

	I actually went to a guy who was the CEO of a big computer chain that was headquartered here in Dallas, and I asked his advice as to what should we do since we had failed and were faced with having to close down the business, and tell the investor we failed, etc.?

	His sage words of advice were these.  He simply said, “Look.  You two guys are smart guys.  Next week is July 4th,” and this is 1986.  He said, “Why don’t you go have a four-hour brainstorming session over breakfast, and see if you can come up with another idea before you throw in the towel?”

	We took him up on that advice, and we did have a four-hour breakfast.  I still have the proverbial napkin.  It was at that breakfast that what became ACT! was conceived.  That was a huge turning point in obviously my career and the world, as it now turns out, because ACT! is acknowledged as the product that started this whole relationship management industry, and CRM, and things like that.

John:	So a couple of questions there.  What was the product you were developing before?  Was this a complete pivot, or was it related in some way to what you’d been doing before?

Mike Muhney:	It was mostly a complete pivot, but it was focused on helping people, again, distinguish themselves.  What it was, was what I will call a configurator.  Back in that era, people went to a variety of these new chains, like entrée business land, computer land, where you had to go to buy a PC.

	Our attitude was yesterday the salespeople were selling washers and dryers at Sears, and today they’re selling PC technology, and they have competition.  How can we make the store owner appear more professional, as well as the employees, and distinguish them from their competition?

	You could come into the store, and I would configure, and back solve margins, line items a discount, and print out a document, but guaranteeing a profit margin, and hand it to you, and say, “Well honor this document and this quote for 30 days while you go to my competitor, and they don’t do that.  Which one are you a little more confident in?”

	It was meant to be strictly for these computer PC stores to help them in their own business, but they were unwilling to pay for the product.  They thought it should have been given to them free because Lotus gave 1-2-3 free.  We said, “No, it’s not to sell.  It’s for you to use internally for your own business.”  Anyway, it just failed.  It just didn’t make it.

John:	That doesn’t sound as good.

Mike Muhney:	It didn’t sound as good, but we had high hopes when we developed it.  As it turned out, our hopes were dashed.

John:	Let me ask you about this.  You’re down to your last $15,000.00 out of $100,000.00.  How do you make that substantial a pivot?

Mike Muhney:	When you’re about ready to have to go back to the corporate world after having enjoyed working together and having your own business, so to speak, as tiny as we were, we were desperate, obviously.  We were determined to find something, if we could, to keep us in business and grow in a bigger way than we had imagined.

	The simple way we started out in our discussion was this.  What do we need to use ourselves that would help us be more successful?  Rather than putting on the proxy of somebody that could use it but not a product that we ourselves could, we said, “What do we need?”

John:	Classic, solving a pain you experienced.

Mike Muhney:	Exactly.  We kind of looked at the Day-Timer.  We described ourselves as power Day-Timer users.  We said if we could turn that into a digital product, a software product, what would we want it to do?  What would it look like?  What are the things it ought to do, and do well and smoothly, such that we could deal with more people more effectively without sacrificing the quality of any individual relationship, so a do more with less kind of thing?

John:	Okay.  It was a complete re-envisioning of what the Day-Timer was.  A Day-Timer was a little three-ring binder type of thing.  I had one back in the day.  It was tiny little pieces of paper, and nowhere near what software could do.  You envisioned this idea, and pretty much the world was your oyster.  You can make it look a lot of different ways.  Tell me about the origins of the idea.

Mike Muhney:	Let me go back a little bit to IBM and my own case.  One of the things IBM taught us – and Facebook didn’t exist back then, but there was a concept called what’s on the wall?

	When you went out cold calling on these big companies to sell mainframes to, they said, “Take notice of the magazines in the lobby, the pictures on the walls of the CEO,” because they taught us to call at the very top, even if we were delegated down, “and begin your conversations with a personal touch.”  “Is that your yacht in the picture on the wall?”  “Yeah, it is.”  “Really?  How long have you had it?”  “Oh, years.”  It began to get people to open up.  When people open up, your job is simply to listen.

	Fast forward to the design of ACT!  We had user defined fields where you could customize it to keep track of all those incidental things, if you will.  Keep track of the last thing you did, so there was automatic archiving of your last meeting, your last phone call, whatever.

	They always taught us – they being IBM – to always ask for the executive secretary’s name.  Again, we were taught to call on CEOs.  Most had an executive secretary that IBMers called on, of course.  It was important, just as much, to remember their names, so in the design of ACT!, there was an executive assistant field so you could put that person’s name.

	It was all the combination of little things like that.  My attitude and my partner’s attitude, John, was that little things don’t mean a lot.  They mean everything.  What are those elements of everything that give you the best chance to penetrate the resistance in an initial encounter, and give you then an ability to have what I’ll call the appearance of a photographic memory as the relationship continues.

	A few people, certainly in that era and even today with all of these tools have a tendency to dismiss a lot of things that are not a part of the business purpose in mind.  I would say that it’s more important to capture what I will call the emotional elements of a relationship rather than the clinical elements of them.  Clinical being, “I know how much revenue your company did last year.”

	Yes, it’s important, but am I going to penetrate your mind, your resistance factor, which is a natural occurrence really in the initial stage of an encounter, such that you warm up to me?  If you warm up to me, you’re going to talk to me more, and my questions are going to get better answers, and I’m going to learn more.  It’s kind of a domino effect.

	That was the genesis of how we designed it, what fields we put into it, and how we enabled the user themselves to customize it to fit into the way they could do business but do it better, and with more people, more effectively.

John:	Okay, so tell me two things.  One, what did this Boston-based investor say when you came back and said, “Yeah, we’re ditching the first idea.  We’ve got $15,000.00 left, and we’re pursuing this new idea.  Yeah, no one has done it before”?  Then the second part of the question was how did you explain to people who had no way of understanding this new form of software?  How did you explain to them what it is?

Mike Muhney:	Two great questions.  I always get a kick out of the first one because it’s as if it happened yesterday.

	We were three feet off the ground after that breakfast.  We knew we were on to something.  At the least the two of us believed we were, and we furiously worked to begin to design on paper the decision tree, the screen layouts, etc. because the Boston investor was coming down to Dallas in about three weeks.  Unbeknownst to him of any of this decision to just abandon the product that he had invested in.

	In order to be prepared for his visit, we had a deadline, so to speak, to get as much done as we could so that we had a chance of not really upsetting him, and just ending up having to close the business with only $15,000.00 left.

	What happened is we picked him up at the airport.  I remember we took him to lunch, small talk kind of thing.  Then the moment of truth came, and his name was John.  We said, “John, we have something to tell you.  Margin Maker,” which was the name of the product, “is dead.  Here’s why it is.”  We explained it, and he was just kind of calm, and shaking his head, and curious.

	We said, “But we have another idea we’d like to share with you that we’ve been working on.”  “Tell me about it.”  We did.  This is what he said at the end of that very passionate presentation of our idea.  It’s live or die, right?  Plus, we believed in it.  We were excited ourselves because we could see using it ourselves.

	This is what he said.  “I didn’t invest in Margin Maker.  I invested in the two of you.  If the two of you believe you’ve got a better idea, and it’s obvious to me that you do, I’m here to support you.”

	The surprise comment he made was this.  “Do you need any more money?”  We were totally shocked by that.  We weren’t prepared for that response.  We were hoping he wouldn’t be upset, but we weren’t prepared for that.  We said, “Well, yes, we do.”  He said, “How much?”  We just kind of spontaneously said, which was a lot of money to us back then obviously, and still is today.  We said $50,000.00 will keep us in business to continue the development of this product.  He literally pulled out his checkbook, and wrote a $50,000.00 check on the spot.

John:	Wow.

Mike Muhney:	What happened then, more interestingly, or just as interestingly, is I went back to the CEO of that company that told us to have this breakfast.  He had no idea we had the breakfast, what the results of that breakfast were, nor the work we had been doing over the past three weeks.

	When I went to him and told him everything, including what John, the original angel, said, he got interested in the product, which I codenamed YES, which was an acronym for Yes, Everybody Sells.  Not everybody has a quota, but everybody does sell.  We all have competition.  You may be an architect, but there are other architectural firms I could choose.  Sell me on why I should select you.  That was a very foundational principle that we held.

	Anyway, the CEO of this PC store chain said, “I’m interested in investing, too.  Let me get together a group of guys who I think might also be interested in investing.”  Within a couple months, we had raised $400,000.00 on this idea.  Nine months later, an easy day to remember, April Fool’s Day, 1987, ACT! was released on the market, so nine months from conception to birth.

John:	If you got people to invest in the idea so readily, including your original investor, you must have found a way to describe it to people in a way that they understand what it was.  I do want to ask one quick question.  Do you remember how you met the Boston investor originally?  That’s one thing a lot of people struggle with.  How do you find someone like that who’s going to invest in you and support you the way that he did?

Mike Muhney:	It was luck.  It was serendipitous, and it was from my family.  My brother, who is in the contracting business, was working on a very wealthy man’s house in Dallas.  They got to be good friends.  It was a long-term project, and he got to tell this guy about me, his brother, and what I was doing.  This house owner said, “I’ve got a friend in Boston who’s interested in these kind of high-risk/high-reward startup opportunities.  Does your brother have a business plan?”  We did not have a business plan.  In all honesty, John, I don’t think we really knew what a business plan was.

	There was an arrangement made for us to talk on the phone.  We did, and he asked for our business plan.  Although we didn’t have one, I said, yes, we’d send one up to him.  We threw together a ten pager, let’s say, of what the concept was of this configurator product.  He was interested, which was further luck, that he was interested.  He flew down to Dallas to meet with us.  It was a short time after that that he wrote the $100,000.00 check.

John:	Wow.  Tell me about when it was released.  Nine months later, you released the product to the market.  What kind of reception did you get?

Mike Muhney:	Extremely great reception.  Forgive me for not answering your second question earlier, which was how did you describe this to people?

	The way we did was very simple.  This is software design for people who deal with people, and to help them deal with more people more effectively.  Do you deal with people in what you do?  Again, it was more of a business-only focused world back then as people started to use PCs and these brand-new things called laptops.  Who could say no?

	We would say, “We have a way that significantly improves upon the existing paper organizers like Day-Timer.  Just about everybody used a Day-Timer.  It was the predominant organizer, if you will, and it had an activity focus.  We said we had a relationship focus, of which activities are part and parcel to relationships.  They’re inseparable even.  The focus was on the relationship as the cornerstone, and not the to-do list.  It wasn’t a glamorized to-do list.

	People would say, “Tell me more.”  We started to show them.  I kid you not.  Within five minutes, if that long, I don’t care what people did for a living.  They would say, “I could use this.  This is really cool.”  It kind of led to more purchases back then, shrink-wrapped software, as it was called.  You had to go to a store and buy it.

	It came on the market April 1st, ’87.  A friend of a friend of the company’s knew the most prominent, most regarded and reputable journalist at the time who wrote for PC Magazine, a guy by the name of Jim Seymour.  We didn’t know any of this.  All of a sudden, there was a two-page article in PC Magazine, the most prominent magazine, entitled “What Qualifies as Great Software,” and it was all about this brand-new product called ACT!

	To make a long story short, this guy went on to say, “If you could design a software to do just what you needed it to do to help you be more successful and as if you designed it yourself, wouldn’t you want it to do these following things?”  He kind of went off on that.

	Then he finished along the lines of, “It doesn’t matter what you do for a living.  Even CPAs,” and it was a CPA friend of his who told him about ACT!  He said, “Even CPAs are going to find use for this product.  There’s no industry or segment within industries that couldn’t benefit from the use of ACT!”  Three months after that, we won our first PC Magazine Editor’s Choice award.  The momentum had begun as a result of that.

	What’s funny, and this is another interesting point in the journey.  We went to COMDEX in November in Las Vegas, which was big at the time, of course, to kind of have our coming-out party.  We went big.  We had a 20-foot-wide by 50-foot-long booth in an island.  We did something that nobody did back in that era.  We literally put 50 chairs down so people would sit down, and I did a presentation of ACT! every hour on the hour.

	What happened that we didn’t anticipate was there three aisles around that perimeter, of course, with small 10-by-10 booths.  The crowds were looking to sit down.  When the seats were full, they stood around as if to say, “Why is everybody watching this?”  At any point in time, we had anywhere from 100 to 150 people watching us.

	One of the guys across the aisle who heard all my pitches and all my jokes all week came up to us at the end of that COMDEX as we were literally walking out.  We sold 500 copies at the show, so we broke even on the cost of the show, which was about $50,000.00.  We sold it at the time as a $99.00 special.

	Anyway, this guy said, “I want to buy your company.  I’ve got $1 million cash.  I’ll give it to you next week.  This is fantastic.”  We looked at each other, my partner and I, and went, “No, thank you,” but it was cool that the guy offered us $1 million.  That guy was Kevin O’Leary, the guy that’s currently on “Shark Tank.”

John:	Wow.

Mike Muhney:	Yeah.

John:	So you didn’t sell.

Mike Muhney:	No.

John:	I’m looking at your LinkedIn profile right now.  It lists you with ACT! from ’86 to ’93.  Tell me what happens in the intervening years.

Mike Muhney:	The world changed from DOS to Windows.  The Windows version came out in ’91.  Momentum was ever increasing as far as the pace.  We created a category that didn’t exist.  The category was called contact managers.

	I’ll never forget.  We met with Jack Trout and Al Ries, the guys who wrote Bottom-up Marketing and Marketing Warfare.  They were the gurus at the time.  It was actually them that created the category.  It was not us.  They said, “There’s database software, Word processing software, spreadsheet software, but there’s no contact software.  You guys ought to be contact software,” so we changed our company name to Contact Software International.

	He said, “Whoever thought of the name of ACT! was brilliant because all your competitors are going to have to say your name when they tell people what category they’re in.  It’s going to reinforce that name.”  All those little things were serendipitous but helpful, and we leveraged it.

	We expanded internationally.  We localized the product into German and French.  We were on our way to localizing it into other languages as well.  I was invited to literally global Fortune 500 conferences as a keynote speaker.  I sat on the same stage as Masayoshi Son of SoftBank, and the head of Microsoft Europe at major conferences, Larry Ellison of Oracle.  Because of the success of ACT! and how it was changing the world on how people were able to maintain better information on their relationships.  We all have networks.

	I don’t even really like the phrase relationship management for a variety of reasons.  One of them is I can’t manage you, and you can’t manage me.  It is what it is as far as the name, but in reality, I can’t manage you.  The only thing I can really manage is me.  The better I manage myself – and I think at the core of it, that’s what people did recognize.  It equipped them to handle themselves better without anything slipping through the cracks.

	We got interest from various companies, many of them from Silicon Valley, who wanted to buy us through the course of the six years before we ended up selling it to Symantec.

	What happened is we were still a small company.  We’re about 150 people, an office in London, and an office in Munich.  I was getting ready to open up the Paris office.  Microsoft had announced that they were going to be coming out with this little product, and they weren’t the Microsoft then that they are today, but they were still Microsoft.  They were going to come out with this product that managed your contacts and things like that, and they were going to call it SchedulePlus.  We thought and our board thought, “We’ve had all these offers from Silicon Valley companies.  Maybe we ought to see what we’re worth.  What’s the harm?”

	To make a long story short, Microsoft did come out with a product, and it was called Outlook.  Outlook never did come anywhere close to being a relationship management product, but the threat of it at the time is what prompted us to see what we were worth on the market.

	What ended up happening is we put out an offering memorandum.  We hired an investment banking firm in San Francisco to represent us.  A confidential memorandum was sent to 75 companies.  Three of them responded: Symantec, CompuServe, which was the predecessor to AOL, and CompuServe was the king back then, and WordPerfect.  Of the three, Symantec clearly knew what they were doing.  The negotiations were quite interested, and we ended up selling to Symantec.

John:	Can you reveal what you sold it for?

Mike Muhney:	Sure.  Again, this is the predecessor to this thing called the internet industry.  If we had held on to the company, it would have had a lot bigger numbers in front of it, but their first offer was for $20 million.  My partner and I, out in the office boardroom in Cupertino on the flight out there, without any analysis at all, we did say to each other, we did say to each other, “How much would we sell the company for?”  We said, “Forty million.  If we can get $40 million, everybody will be happy, ourselves and our investors.”

	Their first offer, they wined and dined us the night before.  Their first offer was for $20 million.  We literally said to them, straight-faced, is that your best offer?”  They said, “Yeah.  That’s a lot of money.  It is.”  We said, “You’re not even in the ballpark.”  We literally ended up leaving.  We said, “We’re not interested.  Bye.”  We flew home.

	Two weeks later, we got a call back from them.  They asked us to come back out.  They wined and dined us great the first time, so we got on a plane again.  It really was – this is how it went down.

John:	This is the negotiation dance.

Mike Muhney:	Yeah, and our investment banking firm, by the way, and one of the analysts on our team, was a Harvard MBA graduate.  In his analysis, he said the most we could get for the company was $25 million.  When he told us that in front of the investment banker sales guy, we said, “You’re fired.”  We did.  We said, “You’re fired.  If that’s the best you can get for us, that’s not enough.”

	When they offered us $20 million, and the investment banking firm was with us, of course, there was a Cheshire cat grin on the Harvard MBA guy’s face.  We said, “No deal.”  When we went back out there two weeks later, they came back in, the moment of truth.  They said, “We’ve redone the numbers, and we want to offer you $22 million.”  It was an Austin Powers kind of moment, seriously.  

	We were stunned because we said you weren’t even in the ballpark two weeks earlier.  We said, “Guys, do you remember what we said?”  They said, “No.  What did you say?”  We said, “We told you that you weren’t even close, and you think $2 million more is going to make the difference?”  They said, “Yeah.”  We said, “Well, it doesn’t,” and we left.

	About a month later – we’re still playing poker, so to speak, with the other two companies, CompuServe and Word Perfect.

John:	Let me also ask you.  At this point in your career, you hadn’t sold a $20 million company before, like a lot of people haven’t.  Did a part of you want to say yes?

Mike Muhney:	No.  We were literally doubling sales every year, and I mean literally.  If we had held on to it for another year, we knew what revenues would be.  It would probably even take a higher multiple than two times the previous year.

	The only reason we were willing to consider selling was because of the threat of the bigger boys, that being Microsoft.  Even Lotus had a product called Agenda.  Lotus was beginning to encroach on some means by which to collect data that included people.  We couldn’t discount that, so we had to put ourselves out there.  That’s why.

	No, we never had any experience, my partner and I, on selling anything at all.

John:	You’re pretty good negotiators.

Mike Muhney:	It was gut instinct a little bit.  It was the ability to say no, the willingness to say no, and the courage to say no, but also the confidence that we knew we had a good product.  We were emerging as the Cinderella of the ball.  I don’t mean that in any arrogant way.  I mean that very humbly.  We knew we had something, and we wanted to protect it.  If you were going to take it from us, we wanted a fair price for it because you were buying the future.  You were not buying our past.

John:	What happens next?

Mike Muhney:	This is a funny thing.  They called us up and said, “Hey, we’d like you guys to come out again.”  We said, “Rather than do that,” because we were now disappointed.  We didn’t expect a lot from them, but this $40 million number was still in my partner’s and my head.  We had talked to our other investors, the board of directors, about this, and they were fine with that.

	We set up a conference call between the two boards.  The moment of truth came, and they said, “We’ve redone the numbers, and the number is $39.5 million.”

John:	Wow.

Mike Muhney:	It was like, oh, man, that was so close to $40 million.  What do we do?  We said, “Can we put you on mute?  We’re going to have a discussion here.”

John:	Then you did a little dance around the table.

Mike Muhney:	Yeah.  Person to person – there were my partner and I, and then six outside board members, all of whom were investors, and to a person, we all said, “Sure.  It’s close enough.”

	In this case, the investment banking firm did mentor us in a way.  They said, “Look.  We’ve done some work on Symantec and studied their past.  Their stock is at a lower price today than it has been.  Therefore, there’s more upside potential.  Whatever deal they say, why don’t you ask for a collar?”  A collar is, in this case, a 30-day time period.  We said, “We don’t want this deal to be based on this $39.5 million offer that we did accept.”  We said, “We accept.”  They were kind of clapping and cheering.  

	Then we said, “But.”  They said, “But what?”  We said, “We want a collar on this because we believe when you announce this on Wall Street,” and it was announced on CNBC, “that your stock price is going to go up.”  Their stock price at that time was seven and a quarter.  We said, “We want the deal to be based on your stock price 30 days from today, end of business, whatever it is.”  If the stock had gone down, we would have lost money.  The risk was the likelihood that it would go up.

	Within a day of announcement on Wall Street, their stock price went up $4 a share.  That doesn’t sound like a lot today.  You have to remember the context.  This is 1993.  They had 29 million shares outstanding as a public company.  It went up $4 a share.  Their announcement of their acquisition of ACT! added $100 million valuation to Symantec.  It held.  It went up and down a little bit, but it literally closed exactly $4 a shore more 30 days later.  Out of that $100 million extra valuation to Symantec, we got an addition $7.5 million, which made the deal $47 million that started out at $20 million.

John:	Nice negotiation.  I didn’t know we were going to get a little clinic here on negotiation, but I love it.

Mike Muhney:	Nobody taught us.  You don’t know what’s going to happen.  It is like playing poker.  You just kind of have to hold your ground.  Obviously the worst time to sell a company is if you have to.  We didn’t have it, but we didn’t know how much time we had left given the information of that era.  In retrospect, I will tell you that to a person, because I keep in touch with most of the board members, and my ex-partner of course, we all wish we hadn’t sold the company, but it was the right decision at the time.

	If you consider the internet, and then the pre-bubble, and even today.  Look at the valuations in Silicon Valley today.  It’s crazy, and we probably would have been a public company, but it was a good decision then.

John:	That’s a phenomenal success story.  I want to ask you about one thing, backing up a little bit.  You were in sales and marketing at IBM, right?

Mike Muhney:	Correct.

John:	You decide to found a software startup.

Mike Muhney:	Correct.

John:	How do you learn about that new industry?  Did you have any people, any relationships, any mentors who helped you?

Mike Muhney:	No.  Like a lot of people, we were curious about this thing called the PC.  My partner and I had, for years, we were best friends.  We had talked about wouldn’t it be cool as best friends to have our own company someday?  There was always that seed in us that had not yet been germinated because we couldn’t come up with an idea that would allow us to start a company.

	With this emergence of these PC stores, we saw an opportunity to develop this program, and go sell it to people, and we knew selling.  It was a different product.  Yes, it was software, and we were new to software, but we had started to use Lotus.  We had started to use the things like that.  We were familiar with the mechanics, if you will.

	We didn’t assume that all the world would ever need were spreadsheets, word processing, and Ashton-Tate’s dBASE, right?  How many people are going to learn to program a database product?  Very few.  People wanted solutions, and we were solution oriented.

	Our natural instincts were is there an opportunity here?  It did enable us to work together if we could come up with one.  We had the courage to quit our jobs and say, “Let’s do it.”

John:	Okay.  Let’s flash forward a number of years.  Based on your LinkedIn profile, you worked a variety of different positions.  Then you decided at some point to jump back in the game, to go back to developing the same kind of software in 2009.  You’d been out of the game for 20 years at that point?

Mike Muhney:	Well, ’93.  Actually, in ’98, Deloitte Consulting came to me because of my ACT! credential that started the CRM industry, and it was called CRM.  Tommy Siebel with Siebel Systems basically helped create that specific acronym and enterprise segment of relationship management.  All the big consulting firms, Anderson, Deloitte, made a lot of money going in, and selling, and implementing multi, multi, hundreds of millions of dollars of CRM systems.

	Because of who I was, they actually contacted me and asked if I would consider being one of their three global spokesmen for their CRM practice.  Obviously we talked about it, and I agreed.  I can talk about CRM in my sleep.  Because of my credential, I can say things that might not be allowed to be said by a novice trying to sell CRM.  I could stand my ground and challenge conventional wisdom, if you will, on the good and bad of relationship management.

John:	Yeah.

Mike Muhney:	I had a great career at Deloitte.  I was recruited away from them after a while.  What happened, John, is fast forward to 2004.  All of my friends were starting to be enamored by Apple, Mac.  It was kind of a different Apple.  I was actually – and I hope I can say this on your program – I was pissed off with ACT!, not ACT!  per se, but I was pissed off with the owner of ACT! at the time, Sage, the British company, because they wouldn’t fix the bugs that I kept reporting.

	I actually had dinner one evening with the CEO of Sage in England.  I told him about my grievances with ACT!, and what he needed to do to improve it.  They continued to make me pay for ACT! every year with an upgrade.  I finally got tired of paying for a product that I had co-invented.

John:	So you decided to start a new company.

Mike Muhney:	No, I just basically said, “Screw it.”  I bought my first Mac.  I didn’t like running Infusion and simulating Windows on it.  I wanted to be an Apple purist.  I had to get used to iCal and the address book, and that was it.  That was a far cry from my DNA in ACT!

	Fast forward in 2007, I bought the iPhone.  That was really cool.  Now fast forward to the end of 2009.  The cover story of Businessweek magazine that I subscribe to was entitled “Apps.” It was all about this changing world because of the iPhone that we were going to live in, and how it was going to change our lives, etc.

	When I was done reading that article, I literally stood up so infused with passion.  It was like a rebirth, an awakening again of something that had been long dormant in me.  That was that passion to enable, with this device that was now with me 24/7, the iPhone that I could have only lusted for back in the ACT! era.  People didn’t carry around laptops everywhere.  They were only for business use anyway back then, for the most part.

	I thought, “I’m tired of waiting around for somebody to invent what I need.  I used to use ACT! I want it again, but I want to have it be more agile than ACT! ever was, given the technology today.” I said, “I’m going to start a company.  I know how to design software.  I know how to raise money.  I know how to brand.  I know how to go global.  I know all this stuff,” and I began to put together the business plan for the rest of the year.  Come January of 2010, I set out to raise money.

John:	First did you call up your old buddy and say, “Let’s get the band back together?”

Mike Muhney:	No.  There’s no ill will or anything, but we basically went our separate ways.  He moved away from Dallas.  All of those years apart, you talk once in a while, but you don’t want to get back together.  You kind of had done that before.  Now it was a new era, and he was on to things he was doing.  I did it on my own, but some of the best of the ACT! employees, when they learned what I was doing, asked if they could join with me.

John:	People who had worked with you years ago?

Mike Muhney:	Yes.

John:	Really?

Mike Muhney:	Yes because they missed it too.  They believed in, obviously, me, and they believed in the vision of VIP Orbit Software.  The product was originally called VIP Orbit.  The company name is VIP Orbit Software.  It still is to this day.  They joined with me, and by May of 2010, I had raised $1 million from an angel investor, and we were on our way.

	Just a few weeks ago, we actually buried VIP Orbit because it’s old architecture, and we replaced it with a brand-new UI, unified codebase across iPhone, iPad, and Mac called Vipor.  Here we’re five years old now, and won many awards with VIP Orbit.

	I’m back in my area of expertise.  I know what I’m talking about.  You can probably tell I have the passion and enthusiasm for it.  All I’m trying to do, John, is equip people, the same reason I did back in the ACT! era, not only myself but to equip people, the normal person in the street, so to speak.  My heart really is for the common man.  I’m not saying that to patronize.  I’m a common guy.  I was born in a blue-collar poor family, and I achieved things way beyond my wildest imaginations.

	I have a belief that you can achieve a lot.  Ordinary people can achieve extraordinary things.  I’m trying to help that segment of the world realize that if they only begin to see themselves different, adjust their attitudes, apply the right toolset, that they can do better than they would otherwise do.  That’s what drives me.

	I have a principle that I do live by.  It’s very simple.  I don’t know who made this phrase up.  I didn’t, but I love it.  It’s simply, “Success should be a springboard, not a hammock.”  All ACT! did for me, John, is not give me something that is a laurel for me to rest on the rest of my life.  What it was to me was proof that I’m capable of achieving great things.  If that’s the standard I set, how do I exceed that standard today?

	It’s a double-edged sword.  People look at me and say, “You’re the co-inventor of ACT!  Wow.”  Yes, there is a wow factor.  To me, it’s also more of a responsibility to not rest there but to exceed that, and go beyond it, and help more people than even ACT! ever helped.

John:	That’s a great attitude to have no matter where you are in your career.

Mike Muhney:	Yeah.  Exactly.  I’m young again, figuratively speaking, because I have that enthusiasm and passion to make a difference, and I do want to make a difference in my life.

John:	Tell me just one or two things that are different now compared to what the market was like back then.

Mike Muhney:	The most obvious one is very few people had a laptop back then.  Today, people have multi screens.  People have an expectation of instant gratification, instant access to information.  People today, unlike the past in my opinion, in one regard, just being a little devil’s advocate here, we live more in the illusion of relationships today than in the reality of them.

	Our byline for Vipor is, “Real relationship.  Real results.”  It’s impossible to have 5,000 friends, right, on Facebook.  It’s impossible to be linked up to 1,000 people, 95 percent of which, if not more, you really never do anything with.

	We live in this false sense, to some degree, of, “I’m connected everywhere,” but in fact we’re not.  We’re more disconnected, and I’m all about real connections.  I used the phrase earlier emotional connections.  The thing that still hasn’t gotten through to the mass market, in my opinion, is an understanding of what is in your hands in any of these type of relationship management products.  It’s not collection of data.

	Data is a commodity.  What is not and never will be a commodity is turning that into a priceless gem called an emotional connection.  It comes down to, whether it’s figurative, certainly, and literal if possible, the shaking of the hands, the look in each other’s eye, the smile, the acceptance of each other because all relationships are permission-based.  How do you get that permission, and what does it take to get there?  Data doesn’t get you there.  It can help, but it doesn’t get you there.

John:	My last question then, the one I love to ask, is this is your Oscar speech.  You’ve just gotten an Oscar award for something, whatever.  You’re standing up there about to give the little speech to just thank all the people who’ve had the biggest impact on your career.  Obviously people usually mention their family, but I’m interested in knowing about the business relationships.  You mentioned this angel investor out of Boston who had a big impact on your career, your partner, co-founder in founding ACT!  Anyone else like that who you haven’t mentioned who had a big impact on your career so far?

Mike Muhney:	Sure.  Although I don’t remember their names, I would like to give acknowledgement to literally every sales school instructor I had at IBM to help me see who I was to become, and to help me become who I am today.  I would like to thank John McNair, who was the Boston angel investor.

	I would like to thank John Pertell, who was the CEO of that computer chain I told you about who never did buy Margin Maker, but he liked me, and is the one that gave us the suggestion to go have that breakfast, without which we probably would have ended up going back to the corporate world.  He’s due acknowledgment.

	I’d like to thank literally every investor we had in ACT! and every investor I currently have in Vipor because they’re people who are betting on me, and have confidence in me, and towards whom I feel a great sense of responsibility.

	I also thank the people who have bought both ACT! and Vipor today because they too, in my opinion, whatever intent you have or whatever great design you may think you’ve done on your product, none of it matters if nobody will use it.  I thank the customers of my products that are from my soul, my heart, my sweat, and toil, along with the teams behind me, which I also want to acknowledge.

	Nobody does anything in isolation.  It’s not me.  I just happen to be at the forefront.  I’m the spokesman, if you will.  Winston Churchill was referred to as the lion of England.  He said, “Well, the whole British population is the lion.  I just happen to be the mouthpiece.”  I’m just the mouthpiece with a whole lot of people behind me, above, and below, and on either side of me that have seen me through this journey of mine, John.  That’s who I’d like to acknowledge.

John:	Great stuff.  Where can people learn more about you, Mike?

Mike Muhney:	I appreciate it.  They can personally write me if they want.  It’s pretty easy: Mike@VIPOrbit.com.  Our website obviously is the same.  They can take a look at it.  They can download the iPhone app version at the Apple store for free.  Those products will always be free.  The Mac version currently is free, but it’s going to start to be chargeable come March 1st, a $50.00 one-time cost.  Then there’s more coming with the new Vipor architecture.  Just keep an eye on us because you’re going to be pleasantly surprised with what we’re going to be releasing later in the year and beyond.

John:	Mike, it’s so good talking to you.  Thank you for all the great perspective on your career.  It was really fun talking to you.

Mike Muhney:	You’re welcome, John.  Again, thanks for the honor of having me as a guest.

John:	Thank you.

Transcribed by GMR Transcription

The post 084: Mike Muhney | The Godfather of the $20 Billion Relationship Management Software Industry appeared first on Smart Business Revolution.

083: AJ Jacobs | How to Throw the World’s Largest Family Reunion
29:30
2017-09-21 04:57:47 UTC 29:30
083: AJ Jacobs | How to Throw the World’s Largest Family Reunion

rsz_smart_business_revolution_podcast_artwork_redAJ Jacobs is the author of numerous bestsellers, including The Year of Living Biblically, The Know-It-All, and Drop Dead Healthy. He’s also a senior editor of Esquire Magazine.

He’s known for doing experiments on himself, like following the rules of the Bible literally for a year, and reading the entire Encyclopedia Britannica from cover to cover, and going on a quest to be the healthiest man in the world.

But his most recent project takes on a much larger challenge on a much greater scale – throwing the world’s largest family reunion which will be June 6, 2015 in New York City.

He’s calling it the Global Family Reunion and the mission is first of all, to throw a huge party, but also to bring together people from all walks of life to demonstrate that we’re ALL related to one another – we’re all part of one massive global family tree.

So in this interview we talk about the challenges of going from being a journalist and author to throwing a HUGE family reunion with many moving pieces plus dozens of different entertainers and speakers, what it takes to mobilize an army of volunteers and motivate hundreds of people to help you in your mission, how he got a former U.S. President to get involved in his cause, and even what it was like breaking the news to the rapper Ludicrous that he has a Jewish great grandfather.

This episode of the Smart Business Revolution podcast is brought to you by Aweber email marketing software.

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The post 083: AJ Jacobs | How to Throw the World’s Largest Family Reunion appeared first on Smart Business Revolution.

082: Steve Sims | How to Get Once-In-A-Lifetime Experiences
34:10
2017-09-21 04:57:47 UTC 34:10
082: Steve Sims | How to Get Once-In-A-Lifetime Experiences

rsz_smart_business_revolution_podcast_artwork_redSteve Sims will be the first person to say he’s a little intimidating.

He’s a really big guy, he’s got a shaved head, and a huge goatee – and even his eyebrow is pierced like a pirate.

He looks kind of like a construction worker or a big beefy bouncer outside of some big nightclub or maybe an MMA fighter… and in fact, he’s actually been all 3 of those in his life.

But in spite of his appearances – or perhaps because of it – he has built an amazing business.

He’s the founder of Bluefish luxury concierge – a high-end private concierge service that provides once in a lifetime experiences for its affluent and celebrity members.
Steve Sims

You wouldn’t think someone with Steve’s background would start a luxury concierge business, which is what’s so fascinating about him.

Now what’s so special about a concierge service? Well any old concierge service can get people concert tickets or restaurant reservations. But what Bluefish specializes in is getting his members amazing, once-in-a-lifetime experiences that it seems no amount of money can buy.

For example – Steve has gotten his clients to:

  • Fly supersonic military jet flights in Russia
  • Dive down in a submarine in the Atlantic Ocean to view the wreck of the Titanic
    Flying into space up to the international space station
  • Walk the red carpet at the Grammys or the Oscars in the same entourage as famous celebrities
    He has arranged a wedding at the Vatican
  • He has arranged for a client to have dinner in a table set up right in front of the Statue of David by Michelangelo in Florence Italy.

You name it, he’s made it happen.

In this episode, I ask Steve:

  • How does he manage relationships with the rich and famous?
  • How does he create access to places and experiences that most people would think are off-limits?
  • How does he get people to pay him $5,000/year to provide these services?

He has some great actionable tips in this interview which I think will inspire you, such as:

  • Never be afraid to pick up the phone
  • If you don’t get the answer you want, say a very polite thank you very much, hang up and try again
  • Why he says if you want insane results, you need to get people to buy into the passion of what you’re trying to do
  • AND he says you should go out tomorrow and do something that scares the crap out of you – I think that’s great advice.

This episode of the Smart Business Revolution podcast is brought to you by Aweber email marketing software.

I’ve been using Aweber for a number of years now and I can say Aweber is one of the biggest engines behind my growth.

As my email list has grown, there is a direct correlation to my business revenue increasing. It allows me to communicate and build relationships at scale. It has diversified my revenue and my revenue is increasing.

Right now they have a completely free trial so you can try it out free for 30 days.

Go to Aweber and set up your free 30-day trial today.

Resources from this Episode:

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Click here to subscribe via iTunes

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Transcript of Interview:

John Corcoran:	All right, 3, 2, 1.  All right, I am talking with Steve Sims from Bluefish Concierge Service, and we’re going to get into all that discussion.  But Steve, I want to start off with, you started your career in England.  Take me back.  You’re from East London, is where you’re originally from.  You started off working in your family’s construction company, and there’s something that just didn’t fit right with you.  So what were you thinking when you started working your family’s construction company?  And what made you decide that I was destined for something else?

Steve Sims:	Well, I wasn’t thinking is actually how it started.  I used to – at school – I was in London, and my family owned a construction [inaudible] [00:00:48] and I was the only non-Irish boy.  The rest of my family were Irish, born in Ireland.  So all my families were paddies, and every day I would get on the train, go in to work, and on that train would be all these dudes going in to the banks and the insurance companies, wearing sharp suits, coffee, the paper under their arm, the secretaries.  And there’s me, looking like crap in my dirty jeans and my boots, and just about [inaudible] in the lovely English summer.

	And I just hated that.  And I remember one day – and it really was just a startling day – I’m on a building site, and I looked down the line, which is where the wall is, and all the bricklayers are lined up, and there’s my granddad, my dad, my cousin, my nephew.  We’re all on that line.  I saw my entire life history just there.  And I thought, I’m not going to be here.  That’s not for me.  And the following day, there was a fellow that I knew from school, who worked in a bank, and I chatted to him and I said, “I don’t want to be doing this.  It’s not for me.  I don’t want to see my life mapped out like this.”

	And it was in the ‘80s, and he said, “Look, you know, you’re not shy to pick up a phone.  See if I can get you a job in the bank, just taking orders.”  And luckily, he managed to get me a job, and I went with him that morning – and that was the funny thing – still in all my bricklayer’s clothes, with my tool bag, with my spirit level, with my flask and my lunch for the day.  And I went to this small brokerage firm, stuck it behind the receptionist, and then just answered the phone all day in this horrible gear.

	That night, I borrowed a suit from my dad and started working at this brokerage house the following day. 

John Corcoran:	Wow, wow.

Steve Sims:	Now it gets better than that.  I was there for about two weeks, and there was a big recruitment drive for this bank in Hong Kong, and I managed to talk my way into getting an interview with them, and better still, actually getting the job as an apprentice broker in Hong Kong.  So they accepted.  I turned up on the Saturday, and I was fired on the Tuesday.

John Corcoran:	In Hong Kong?

Steve Sims:	In Hong Kong.  So I’m now in Hong Kong, no family, a little bit of money.  They gave me a severance package, which I thought was quite nice.  They let me have the apartment for another three months until I got on my feet.  And so I did the only thing you could do as a logical East London boy that was quite a big lad, I ended up working on the doors of nightclubs, while I pondered what I was going to do for a living.  And that’s how that whole peek behind the curtain kind of happened, and how I got to see how the other people lived, was literally working on the door.

John Corcoran:	Did you always have an interest in connecting or being part of the world of the rich and famous?

Steve Sims:	Oh, God no.  Look at me.  I’m not warm and fuzzy.  If you go – and it was funny – I did a speech up with Jason Gaynard up at [inaudible] [00:03:39] up in Toronto recently, and my speech was about 2:00 in the afternoon.  Everyone turned up and signed up at 8:00.  I can guarantee you, there was not one person that spoke to me before I actually did my speech.  You know, I’m the guy that you go into a room, you see the 240 pound of ugly sitting over there and you avoid him and you go and talk to someone else.  Nobody spoke to me until I did my speech, and then I had people talking to me.

	But now I would say actually overall, I’m not good with people.

John Corcoran:	You’re not good with people?  Okay, that’s a really interesting, very broad statement, considering the line of work that you’re in.  Okay, let me start though, I want to dive into Steve Sims, the person, a little bit first.  So you say that you weren’t shy about contacting people – that’s what your friend told you about when you were getting the job at the bank.  So you’re not shy about contacting people, but you also say you’re not good with people.  

Steve Sims:	Yeah, I don’t have any apprehension or nervousness about getting in front of someone, and I’ll reach out to anyone for any reason if there’s validity behind it.  I’m not intimidated by anybody.  I just have a very, very low tolerance for the BS in the world, in which case I find people aggravating really, really quickly.  So I choose my friends really, really, really carefully.  Those that are close to me, I choose very carefully.  If I mention someone’s name it’s because they’re dear to me.  I’m not one of these guys that think I have 2,000 friends.  I have a good solid core of friends.  And so my standards are very high.

John Corcoran:	So one of the things that you do now with your concierge service is you give people amazing experiences, like walking the red carpet at the Grammies or the Oscars.  And Hollywood is known for having a few people who are maybe lack of sincerity, a little bit of phoniness.  So how do you tolerate that if you say you don’t tolerate that in people?

Steve Sims:	I don’t.  I don’t tolerate it and I don’t take them on as clients.  We have a policy within our company.  It’s $5,000 to join.  You have to apply, and only once you’ve applied and decided that we’re going to take you on, will we then accept your credit card for payment.  And we don’t take photos of ourselves, and so when you get someone contact and we feel that they’re one of those precocious media hounds, then we won’t take them on.  The clients that we get down the red carpets and those kind of experiences are clients that own a print press in New York, or they own a whole slew of shopping malls in Ohio.

	They’ve seen all this stuff on E-Entertainment and TMZ and just want a taste of that lifestyle.  And the celebrity clients that I have actually use us because they know that we’re a no-bullshit kind of firm and we’ll send them to Florence and won’t throw their name all over the place so they get hounded by paparazzi.  We’ll actually send someone over ahead of time to book in under a pseudonym so that these people can just turn up and enjoy the holiday without people knowing they’re ever there.

John Corcoran:	So let’s say you’ve got a client who wants some outrageous experience, like you said, having dinner in front of the Statue of David –

Steve Sims:	Yeah, that was cool.

John Corcoran:	– something like that, which you have arranged before.  Where do you start from that experience?  What do you do?  You pick up the phone?  You just ask?

Steve Sims:	Yeah, you do.  You know, you’ve always heard of the paralysis by analysis.  So many people will think themselves into a coma.  While they’re thinking about it, I’ve just made five phone calls, and by the fifth one, I’ve got closer to the person that will say yes.  So if I get someone on the other end of the phone that says, “No, we’re not going to let you have – kick everyone out of the Academia in Florence and take over the entire gallery and set up a dinner table for six people.  We’re not doing that.  We’re not a restaurant.”  And you go, “Hey, thank you very much for your time.  I appreciate it.”

	You hang up.  You dial another number.  Or you dial the same number and ask for a different extension.  And you just get through, and then you twist and request a little bit more until you finally find a person that buys into the passion.  And that’s always my key word, buys into the passion of what you’re trying to put together.  And then they go, “You know, this may work.”  And you go, “Great.  How can I make it work?  How can I take a maybe to a yes?  I want to make this work.  What do I have to do to make you say yes to me?”

	And then they go, “Well, you know, have you thought of a charitable donation to the gallery?”  “Absolutely, what do you need.”  So once you start getting those buying signals, as we all know, then it’s kind of a home run.  But it’s really just pick up that phone or knock on the door, smile and go, “Hey, I want something magical to happen and I want you to be involved.  I want you to be able to make a dream come true.  So that you’re going to be able to go home and know that someone was absolutely ecstatic because of something that you do every day all day.”

	And people really like that.  But don’t go in with insincerity.  Go in with passion.  Go in with [inaudible] [00:08:28].  Don’t fluff or bluff around it.  Just be direct.  Let people know what you want, really, really, really quickly.

John Corcoran:	What do you do if it’s someone where you have difficulty figuring out what it is you can offer to that person in order to make it worth their time?  Like I think you’ve offered – people can walk down the red carpet at the Oscars with famous directors or famous actors or something like that.

Steve Sims:	Yeah, one of the after-parties, yeah.

John Corcoran:	So how do you – some famous actor or director in Hollywood, money is no problem.  They’ve got enough money.  They’ve got enough fame.  What do you have when you call up someone like that and say that you want a shopping center owner from Ohio to walk behind them walking down the red carpet, how do you convince them of that?

Steve Sims:	Well, you’re not going to convince them by throwing dollar signs at them because dollars are actually the weakest currency on the planet, I feel.  But you’ve never got enough time and you’ve never got enough smiles.  So if you can phone someone up and say, “Look, I’ve got this person who really wants to do this, and I want to make them happy.  How can I make them ecstatic?  How can I make them talk about this experience for the rest of their life?  And how can I make you a part of that dream?”

John Corcoran:	Wow.  That’s it, huh?

Steve Sims:	There’s no intelligence on this side of the camera.  It’s just directness.  You’d be surprised how many people come up to me and go, “Oh, how did you pull that off?”  Well, take a pen and pad out, you know, and this is going to be really detailed.  I picked up the phone.  And that’s it.

John Corcoran:	That’s it?

Steve Sims:	It really is.

John Corcoran:	But you’re good at not taking no for an answer, being persistent as well.

Steve Sims:	Well, let’s be honest, you know.  I’ve been doing this for 18 years.  So I’ve had more no’s in my life than I’ve had yeses.  But of course, every time I want something now, I have a little trick up my sleeve.  So that when I want something from someone, and I don’t know that person firsthand, I will look in my Rolodex at someone that’s within that circle, or a similar kind of genre, style, field of business, and I will ask them to make the introductory call, so that will get them a referral to me from someone who’s credible within their circle.  So that when they phone up, they go – and this is what usually happens – they go, “Oh yeah, I’ve heard about you.

	You’re the crazy British guy that does that.”  And you go, “Yeah, that’s me.  How can I make you my next achievement?”  So I’m lucky now that I’ve built up that credibility.  I am big.  I am ugly.  I can’t spell for shit.  I’ve got a terrible accent.  But I do exactly what I say I’m going to do, and I can get people to phone you up that can say, “Yes, this guy put someone on stage with Journey.  Yes, he took over the Academia and had Andrea Boccelli come in.  Yes, he had someone married in the Vatican.

	Yes, he had,” and they will phone the person I need up and say, “He’s just done this with us.”  And they will go, “Well, okay, so he is real.”  Because unfortunately, 80 percent of people are full of it.

John Corcoran:	Now, so you mentioned calling up someone in your network and asking them to make a mutual introduction.  Now if you do that too many times without giving something to those people, you’ll end up having people not wanting to answer your calls.  So let’s drill down a little bit on how you keep those relationships warm for the people that you are going to ask to introduce you to someone.

Steve Sims:	Yeah, and again, it’s not intelligent, or it’s not detailed or complicated, should I say.  I’m not a farmer.  But I’ve been asked this question before, and I put it down similar to someone growing crops or berries or something like that.  You walk into the middle of the field and throw a bunch of seeds down and walk away, you ain’t going to have any crops, you ain’t going to have any berries.  You’re going to have nothing.  You’ve got to dig a deep enough hole so that there’s some substance for them to sit in.  Then you’ve got to nurture them by feeding them.  Then you’ve got to crop them and clean them up as they grow and become stronger and stronger before you finally pluck them.

	And so if you think a relationship is one phone call and bang, you are best friend, and unfortunately being able to go on Facebook and suddenly click a button and you’re a friend, you know, that kind of instant gratification isn’t true when it comes to a relationship.  A relationship is something that takes time to build.  Now you may be able to get what you want on the early stages, but because you’ve got somebody, it doesn’t mean that three months down the line, you don’t harvest it, you don’t nurture it, you don’t water it.  So put a little note in your diary, look at your Rolodex every three months, six months and go, okay, who haven’t I contacted?

	There’s Johnny.  He’s got a – and this could be a print press.  I’ve got print press companies that I look after because you never know when tomorrow, I suddenly need to have a 12 by 15 banner produced for a party that I’ve just been called in at the last moment, and I will need to get the banner produced.  So I look after my vendors so I can say, “Hey, Rosie, here’s a box of chocolates.  We haven’t spoken.  I don’t want anything out of you, but get fat, eat the chocolates, and enjoy yourself.”  And just make them smile, make it something different.  

	And one of the things that I did – and I actually spoke about this on a lecture I gave – was I get magazines, and my wife does as well, from hairdressers.  And –

John Corcoran:	So you get hairdresser magazines?

Steve Sims:	I do.  You can tell, can’t you?  She brings them home.  Good job this is a podcast and no one can get that joke.

John Corcoran:	Yeah, right.

Steve Sims:	But she brings home these magazines, and I’m infamous for pulling the page out badly.  Don’t cut it out, don’t slice it with a Stanley knife, rip the damn thing out so it’s jagged, write a little note on the bottom in a sharpie – and it could be a dress, it could be a recipe, it could be a cocktail, it could be a bar, it could be a car, it could be anything.  One magazine can give you 50 articles.  Fold it up, shove it in an envelope, handwrite the envelope, lick the stamp, put the stamp on the top, send it to Jimmy and go, “Jimmy, I just saw this review on the new McLaren P1 or the new Fear 500 or this new restaurant in New York.  

	I know you like to hit the scene.  Maybe this would be good.  Let me know how you get on.”  And just send it out.  And you’ll be amazed at how many people get that because 99 percent of your mail nowadays is typed.  It’s all perfect.  You get some kind of handled envelope that’s got some bad handwriting on it and the stamp’s slightly squiffy, and the envelope doesn’t feel as though it’s been professional fulfilled, you’ll open that up first.

John Corcoran:	And I think one of your suggestions was to actually use the hotel stationery and envelope as well.  I like that idea.  Talk about that a little bit.  

Steve Sims:	I travel a lot.  I also get a lot of hotels come to me as well, and they want to talk to me about how they can get my clients and things like that.  And whenever they meet me, I say, “Yeah, come along, but bring 100 envelopes.”  And so I ask hotels for stationery, envelopes, notes, all that kind of thing.  And you can do it in your home town.  Wander over to your local Sheraton, have a cocktail, walk to the front desk and go, “Look, I’m writing some letters to 100 of my most important clients.  I’d love to use your stationery.  Can I have 100 envelopes?”  That’s 100 free advertising that these people are going to get to your network.

	I’ve never had a hotel ever say no to me.

John Corcoran:	That’s great.

Steve Sims:	It’s really weird because I was traveling from Poland over to Canada, and I’d been through so many hotels that on the plane, I’m writing all these envelopes, my clients are getting envelopes from Krakow, from [inaudible] [00:15:54], from London, from Florence, from Rome, from the Amalfi Coast.  It was hysterical.  And of course when you get an envelope as well and it’s got hotel stationery on it, it’s got the hotel marking on it, again, that’s not normal.  What’s this?  And you pick it up.  And you’re telling the client that while you were in Florence, you were thinking of them.

John Corcoran:	That’s a great point.  So taking a step backwards, how did you get started in this line of work?  Was there someone you learned from?  Did you apprentice?  Did you just get into it organically?  How did you go from a bouncer in Hong Kong to this line of work?

Steve Sims:	I started noticing the people coming into the club.  You know, money doesn’t look like it did many years ago.  If you look back to the ‘80s, money looked like anything that had a big symbol on it or they walked around in a stuffy suit.  You know, you’ve got billionaires now in the Silicon Valley walking around in T-shirts and old Corollas and stuff.  Nothing bad with people to own Corollas, but you get the point.  So it doesn’t look the same.  And I remember working on the door and judging people by themselves.  I didn’t want to judge them by their clothes, I didn’t want to judge them by their watch. 

	If they were decent people, hey were [inaudible] [00:17:04].  They paid their bar tab.  If they were nice to their waitresses, you know, all that kind of stuff.  Because there were good people.  So what I would do is I started throwing a few parties.  And here’s my delusion.  I had got fired from the banking community.  They apparently didn’t want some big, ugly British guy as a broker.  And let’s be honest, once you’ve seen me, you wouldn’t trust me with your bank account.  So I started throwing these parties, thinking, delusionally, if I can get a lot of rich clients to follow me in these clubs, eventually I could lead them astray into the bank and get a job because I’d have this Rolodex of rich clients.  

	Now as I was doing these parties, clients would say to me, “Oh, I’m flying to Switzerland, Steve.  Do you know anyone in Switzerland?  Or do you know a good bar I can go to?  Do you know a hotel?”  And I would just do the entrepreneurial two-step, which is first, you agree, you go, “Yeah, sure, great, I know what I’m doing.”  And then a second one is, you know, “Shit, hell’s bells, what am I going to do?”  You know?  So that’s what I would do.  I would then go home and try to work it out.  And of course my Rolodex grew.  I became more connected in the main social circles of [inaudible] Monaco, London, Palm Beach, Pebble Beach, these kind of places.

	Of course as you get into those areas, then organically if you know a bunch of people in Pebble Beach, then you’re going to know a bunch of people in Palm Beach Cabaleno, and if you know people in Polo in [inaudible], you’re going to know people in Polo in Bridgehampton.  And we started working at the Fashion Weeks.  We were the official concierge of the New York Fashion Week.  So we started working New York, London, Paris and Milan, and then Singapore and India.  So it just grows.

John Corcoran:	Now you’re at the point now where I think you said it’s $5,000 for a person who wants to join Bluefish.  Take me through how you articulate the benefit to them.  How you explain to someone, with a straight face, that I’m going to charge you this amount, and this is what you’re going to get.  Because I think a lot of people who are going to be listening to this struggle with being able to articulate the value that they provide, particularly with new clients.  

Steve Sims:	Well, the first thing is I’m not good at marketing.  So 90 percent of my clients come from the [inaudible].  So a client of mine will go over to England, and I will get them into all the best clubs – me and my team – I shouldn’t say me.  I’ve got a fantastic team.  They will get them into the restaurants.  They will get them into the private galleries.  They will get them into the private parties.  They’ll get them an upgrade at the hotel which saves them money.  They will get them an upgrade on the plane.  They’ll get transfers taking them through.  They’ll get [inaudible] [00:19:34] shopping experiences.

	They’ll put an entire itinerary together for that client.  That client will go home, will be at a cocktail reception, and go, “Damn, John, I went over to London for four days, but all of a sudden I was doing this and I was doing that.”  When you’re sitting there listening to it, and the next thing you do is you stand up and go, “I need to meet those people.”  So that’s how we get most of our clients.  We get very, very, I would say few to none that have just stumbled on our website and gone, “I’ll apply for this.”  You know, bink, and that’s it.  They all come through us after reading an article from someone that’s talked about us, heard a podcast about the amazing things we can do, seeing me speak on stage.

	So they already have an understanding that we’re there, quite simply in a nutshell, to make your life the maximum it possibly can, by opening doors for you you didn’t even know existed.  

John Corcoran:	Now you said that starting the concierge firm was kind of organic from the clientele that came to the club, and just working your way into that scene and everything.  But you’ve also started these other side businesses that are affiliated, like a credit card company and a charitable organization, and I believe a magazine, right also?

Steve Sims:	Yeah, had Blue the magazine for a long time.  We stopped that actually quite recently.  We had credit cards, private label credit cards, Bluefish credit cards that was backed by Bank of America and American Express.  And then yes –

John Corcoran:	How do you decide to do this?  And then how – actually more importantly, where do you learn how to start a new business in a new area that you know nothing about?

Steve Sims:	I have a great instructor.  It’s about this big, this high, and it’s called a bottle of Chivas.  And the aspirations, dreams and ideas that I get up to on these lovely summer evenings, where I’m sinking a couple of whiskies down, I will literally just write them down, and then I’ll get up in the morning and go, “We’re going to open up a philanthropic company called Blue Cause.  Or we’re going to open up a ticket website for people that just want a ticket and no fuss and fine.  And I just then go to the team and go, “Hey, I want to do this, and this is going to go along.  How can it fail?”  

	And if I get a lot of people telling me how it can fail, then I may reconsider.  But no, we’ve done a credit card, we’ve done a magazine.  We have an event production company.  We have Stub Blue, which is just a ticket website for people that just want to do it, rather than just contacting us.  And also have Blue Cause, which is our passion project, which we actually make no money on whatsoever.  It’s a complete stupid business model.  We don’t take a single dollar, but we work with people like Stella McCartney, Brad Pitt, Victoria Secret, [inaudible] [00:22:29] recently.

	And all these people donate things, experiences – and Sting was one of them – and we auction it, and all the money goes to charity.  Which is unheard of within the cause marketing world.  They all take up to 50 percent, and we take nothing.  The money goes straight through to the charity.

John Corcoran:	Very cool.

Steve Sims:	And it’s just fun.  It’s really just fun.

John Corcoran:	Now I interviewed recently a guy named Kevin Thompson, who you and I both know.

Steve Sims:	I’ve heard of him.

John Corcoran:	And one of the things that he does is he – it’s critical for his business model to invest a lot of money per year actually, in belonging to membership groups where other high rollers attend basically.  He goes to these places where the affluent hang out.  He spends a lot of money on it.  But it pays off for his business.  So do you do any of that?

Steve Sims:	Well, it’s the old analogy of, you know, if you want to go fishing, go where fish eat.  So it’s not that complicated.  And Kevin’s a very, very grounded super-intelligent man.  He’s just smart, as simple as that.  I’m very fortunate in the fact that I work for a lot of these groups.  Like the Joe Polish, the Dean Jackson, the Richard Bransons, these entrepreneurial groups, I do a lot of work for them.  So as a perk to me, I do actually get to go to a lot of these things.  Where my investment in is back to that harvesting we spoke about before.  So whether it be a client or whether it be a vendor, because as we all know, it’s cheaper to keep someone good than to find someone that’s good.

	So once you’ve found them, lock and load.  Keep those people ‘til death do you part.  Look after them.  Send them CDs.  Send them chocolates.  Send them flowers.  Send them a thank you note.  Don’t type the damn thing, write it.  Don’t email them.  And just harvest that.  So that’s where my investment goes into.

John Corcoran:	That brings up another good point, which is sometimes people struggle with the decision of whether I should volunteer some of my time or take a haircut on my fee because I want to build a relationship with someone.  Do you ever make that decision?  Or if you don’t now, in the past did you ever make that decision, you know, this is a new group that I want to really build a relationship with, and so therefore, I’ll do it for free?  And if you did make that decision, how do you decide?

Steve Sims:	My brain’s split in the creativity and the financial.  And I would say that one of the things that I’ve become very well trained at is not to chase the dollars.  And you get really blinkered when you try to chase the dollars.  So if you take the money completely out of the equation, 100 percent out, it doesn’t exist there, and you say to yourself, “Do I want to be part of that group?  Do I want to work with Kevin Thompson?  Do I want to work with Jason Gaynard?  Do I want to work with Joe Polish?”  That answers your question.  Forget the monetary side of it.

	And then what have I got to do to make it happen?  And if it means cutting your fees, I don’t think you’re cutting your fees.  I think you’re investing in your future.  So I think there needs to be a change of perception on that statement, which is my point of view.  But if I want something badly, my next statement is, okay, I want that.  I’m focused.  I’m locked and loaded, and I’m having that.  How can I make it a win-win?  And that’s how I actually come into a meeting?  How can I make sure that both of us come out of this meeting with both happy?

John Corcoran:	Well, Steve, this has been excellent.  I loved hearing your stories and your enthusiasm, your passion and everything, and I hope a lot of people got some good ideas out of it.  Last question of all, I told you that this is the question that I love to ask people.  It’s your Oscar speech, and you’ve been to the Oscars, so you should be familiar with this.  But let’s say you’ve gotten a lifetime achievement award for everything up until this point, and I want you to just thank some of the people, some of the relationships that have been instrumental to your success in your career so far.  So it could be colleagues, friends, mentors, business partners, people you’ve learned from, people who you like engaging with.

	Who are some of the people that have played a big role for you?

Steve Sims:	Well, when I was 17, I met my wife.  She was 16.  And she’s about 5 foot 4 – she’ll tell you she’s 5 foot 5 – she’s a tiny little beautiful woman.  This is the toughest thing I’ve ever let in my life, and every now and then when I get a bit weak, down, delusional, she’s the one that comes over, kicks me in the testes, and says, “Get up and put it together.”  So I always have to thank her first.  My kids – but then some of the strangest people.  You know, guys that I love from England, you know, Colin West, Dean Jackson from Orlando, Joe Polish from Arizona, Jason up in Toronto, Andy Taylor from [inaudible] [00:27:14].

	Just these are fantastic people, but then also my team.  Because I don’t suffer fools gladly, and I’m quite comfortable to say, “Hey, thank you very much, but I don’t think we should continue chatting.”  The people around me are stellar.  So I have to say, if you’ve got my home phone number, if you’ve got my cell number and we talk on a regular basis, that’s just because you’re damn cool and I love you.  So those are the people I have to say thank you to.

John Corcoran:	Good stuff, Steve.  All right.  So where can people learn more about you?

Steve Sims:	There’s thebluefish.com, which it will tell you all about the weird and wacky concierge stuff that we do, from travel to amazing access.  There’s bluecause.com, blue and then C-A-U-S-E, which is our charity and philanthropic site.  And then there’s a website called uglysims that talks about how I do all my strange markets and quirky little stuff, and it’s free.

John Corcoran:	And we didn’t even get into your stint as an MMA fighter.

Steve Sims:	I’ve always been fighting from a young age, and I think 90 percent of the time, I got my head kicked in.  But there’s just something about it I absolutely love.  So I love the challenge of walking into the ring and nervous as hell.  There’s a big ugly guy the other side of the fence that wants to beat your head in, and I just like walking in there and seeing if I’ve got a hope in hell.

John Corcoran:	Which is probably a good analogy for some of the work that you do.

Steve Sims:	There you go.  If you can walk into a ring with someone that wants to take your head off, and then you’ve got to go into a meeting and chat with someone, which one’s the tougher one?

John Corcoran:	Right, exactly.

Steve Sims:	There’s the point.  Tomorrow do something that scares the shit out of you.  There you go – words of wisdom.

John Corcoran:	Go into an MMA ring and then therefore, it won’t be that difficult to call up a potential client, right?

Steve Sims:	It’ll be a walk in the park, won’t it?

John Corcoran:	All right, thank you, Steve.

Steve Sims:	All right, thanks.

Transcribed by GMR Transcription

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081: Michael O’Neal | How to Be a Successful Solopreneur
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2017-09-21 04:57:47 UTC 52:42
081: Michael O’Neal | How to Be a Successful Solopreneur

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Have you ever seen a contemporary of yours who has rocketed to success – seemingly out of the blue – and wondered how they did it?

One of the myths I want to dispel with this podcast and my blog is that there’s such a thing as a sudden overnight success.

I think so often people like to think becoming an overnight success is really possible because they like to think there’s an easy button.

The truth is behind almost every “overnight success” you will find years and years of effort behind the scenes when no one was watching.

That’s the case with Michael O’Neal.

Michael is the founder of the Solopreneur Hour, a podcast he launched in 2013.

Michael OnealWhen he launched the podcast, it was an instant success, and people said he was an overnight success.

But the truth was, he actually had spent years training for it.

In this episode, he shares his story in this episode of how years of being a musician and a performer and of helping other successful podcasts behind the scenes really were the reason why the Solopreneur Hour was so successful right off the bat.

It was not dumb luck. It was consistent, focused action.

You don’t often see or hear about these types of stories so that’s why I was happy to share it.

This episode of the Smart Business Revolution podcast is brought to you byAweber email marketing software.

I’ve been using Aweber for a number of years now and I can say Aweber is one of the biggest engines behind my growth.

As my email list has grown, there is a direct correlation to my business revenue increasing. It allows me to communicate and build relationships at scale. It has diversified my revenue and my revenue is increasing.

Right now they have a completely free trial so you can try it out free for 30 days.

Go to Aweber and set up your free 30-day trial today.

Resources from this Episode:

Right Click here to download the MP3
Click here to subscribe via iTunes

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080: Dov Gordon | How to Get a Predictable Flow of Clients
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2017-09-21 04:57:47 UTC 42:13
080: Dov Gordon | How to Get a Predictable Flow of Clients

Dov Gordon is a marketing coach and consultant — but he’s not your typical marketing coach and consultant.

He’s not going to tell you that you have to be on Twitter or You MUST use SEO! Or you need to be on Facebook!

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In fact, he says he doesn’t care what channel you use.

But what he focuses on is helping business owners to get a consistent, steady and predictable flow of clients.

He helps to abolish the horrible boom and bust – the roller coaster that so many small business owners go through.  One minute you’re crazy busy, the next it’s completely dead.

Dov is really good at understanding and explaining the entire marketing ecosystem – how to consistently bring in new leads and turn them systematically into a steady f

low of clients.

He breaks down the 3-step process:

  1. First, how to get your potential client’s attention and interest (hint: there’s a difference between those two)
  2. Second, how to build trust with that client
  3. Third, how to articulate to that client why you have a solution to that potential client’s problem.

If you can master these 3 steps, you can have consistent and steady flow of clients.

Dov GordonIn addition, during this interview, we talk about a strategy that Dov has used to build his business – forming his own group of like-minded small business owners who do what he does – people who are basically his competitors.

Some might call this a “mastermind group” but the group that Dov has built has over 70 members and it’s much more than that. In fact, he jokes he would be nowhere with his business if he hadn’t brought together all his competitors in this group.

I’ve been a part of this group for almost a year and I think he makes a very compelling argument for WHY you should consider forming a similar type of group in your industry, and he explains the exact steps you would take to create such a group, including breaking down all the software he uses.

This episode of the Smart Business Revolution podcast is brought to you by Aweber email marketing software.

I’ve been using Aweber for a number of years now and I can say Aweber is one of the biggest engines behind my growth.

As my email list has grown, there is a direct correlation to my business revenue increasing. It allows me to communicate and build relationships at scale. It has diversified my revenue and my revenue is increasing.

Right now they have a completely free trial so you can try it out free for 30 days.

Go to Aweber and set up your free 30-day trial today.

And now, enjoy this one with Dov Gordon.

Resources from this Episode:

Right Click here to download the MP3
Click here to subscribe via iTunes

Advertise on the Smart Business Revolution podcast

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079: Bjork Ostrom | $250K from a Food Blog
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2017-09-21 04:57:47 UTC 47:08
079: Bjork Ostrom | $250K from a Food Blog

Bjork OstromIs it possible to make $250,000 from a food blog?

It sure is.

My guest on the latest episode of the Smart Business Revolution podcast is Bjork Ostrom, one half of the team behind Pinch of Yum – one of the most popular food blogs on the web.

Bjork runs Pinch of Yum with his wife Lindsay, a former elementary school teacher.  They also run FoodBloggerPro.com, which teaches aspiring food bloggers how to launch and grow a food blog.

They publish all their income reports on their site so I can tell you that their business is set to bring in over a quarter of a million dollars this year. Not too shabby.

If this is your first time checking out this podcast, you may be wondering what this has to do with relationships.

After all, this is the podcast where I ask successful entrepreneurs to break down how relationships and connections have grown their businesses.

In fact, Bjork shares in this interview how this little food blog which Lindsay started in her spare time became so successful in part because of the relationships they built.

The blog actually became so successful that they both were able to quit their full-time jobs and work on the site full-time.

In this interview, we discuss:

  • How to sustain a passion for a side project, especially when no one is watching or reading
  • Why he says founding their business was like a 2-year unpaid internship – it’s an important lesson for anyone starting a business today.
  • Why they publish their income reports on a food blog
  • The importance of building relationships with other food bloggers
  • The role mastermind groups have played in their business.
  • How an introduction from a mutual friend led Bjork to meet an expert on building YouTube channels, and how he was able to use this relationship to grow their own YouTube channel for their business.

This episode of the Smart Business Revolution podcast is brought to you by Aweber email marketing software. Right now they have a completely free trial so you can try it out free for 30 days. Check it out — starting an email list is one of the best things I’ve ever done in my business.

Enjoy!

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Resources from this Episode:

Right Click here to download the MP3
Click here to subscribe via iTunes

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078: Steve Chou | How to Start a 6-Figure E-Commerce Business
31:35
2017-09-21 04:57:47 UTC 31:35
078: Steve Chou | How to Start a 6-Figure E-Commerce Business

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Do you ever feel “complacent” in your life? Kind of like everything just “blah”?

Steve Chou felt that way. Five years ago, he says he and his both felt like they were “going through the motions” in life, without living life with any particular passion.

They both had jobs, but Steve’s wife hated hers and she wanted to quit. However, they lived in an expensive suburb of San Francisco and they knew they couldn’t survive on just one income.

Then, Steve’s wife got pregnant. They knew they had to act quickly.

ecommerce-businessThey decided to start a small niche ecommerce online store as a way of replacing his wife’s lost income so she could quit her job when the baby was born.

Flash forward 12 months, and that small ecommerce store had become a six figure business.

The new business allowed his wife to quit her job and today that side business earns far more than what his wife used to make from her full-time job.

Steve then took that experience and starting blogging and podcasting about how to create an ecommerce store. Today he trains others how to start up and grow an ecommerce store. That business actually earns far more than his day job.

In this episode, we talk about:

  • The key relationships that Steve established which were critical to their new businesses’ success in its first year
  • The script he used to turn cold calls to prospects into their first crucial customers
  • How he developed relationships with their initial customers and the little “trick” he used to turn customers who were upset and about to walk away into customers for life
  • How he builds relationships with other bloggers and podcasters today
  • The tool he started using in his business that took him from a self-described “hermit” to having a really well connected network today
  • The reason why he says it might not be a good idea to quit your day job even if you have a side business that earns much more than you do in your full-time job.

This episode of the Smart Business Revolution podcast is brought to you by Aweber email marketing software.

If I was starting my business over again, my first step would be to create an Aweber account (here’s a detailed tutorial on how to do it).

It’s not exaggeration to say that Aweber is the backbone of my online business and without it, I would be nowhere.

Right now they have a completely free trial so you can try it out 100% free for 30 days.

If you are building a business and you haven’t started an email list yet, you need to start building your email list today. Check it out here.

Now, enjoy this episode with Steve Chou.

Resources from this Episode:

Right Click here to download the MP3
Click here to subscribe via iTunes

Advertise on the Smart Business Revolution podcast

Transcript of Interview:


Intro..
John Corcoran:	– a lady who we haven’t seen in four years, and she stayed until 12:30, which was just brutal, and we had got up at, like, 5:00.  So anyway, so all right.  So we’ll get started here in just a moment.  All right.  Welcome everyone.  This is John Corcoran, and I’m talking with Steve Chou.

	And Steve is the founder of Bumblebee Linens and mywifequitherjob.com, which we’re gonna dive into both of those.  And Steve I want to ask you okay, so five years ago – let’s flash back about five years ago now.  You’re an engineer at a startup, and you’re, kind of, a techy guy.  You’ve got your Bachelor’s and your Master’s in Engineering type of stuff.

	I was an English major, so you’ll have to use the proper lingo for me.  But you and your wife were, kinda, complacent you – as you admit.  You were working day jobs.  You were going through the motions.  Life was, kinda, ah, and then everything changed for you.  So what happened?

Steve Chou:	Well, we got pregnant, and you know what that feels like.  Or actually, we don’t know how that feels like.  Our wives do.

John Corcoran:	This is starting great.

Steve Chou:	But – yeah, exactly.  So she hated her job, and it was the perfect opportunity for her to quit, okay.  And so John we live, kind of, in the same, right?  You know how –

John Corcoran:	Yeah.

Steve Chou:	– expensive it is to live here if you want to live in a good school district.  So basically, me working my single day job wasn’t going to cut it to live the life that we wanted to live for our kids.  And so that’s when we started looking for different ways on how to supplant my wife’s lost income, and that’s, kinda, how we stumbled upon ecommerce.

John Corcoran:	Okay, so –

Steve Chou:	Yeah.

John Corcoran:	– you decide to start a side business, so – in the midst of planning for a baby to arrive and shopping for baby clothes and all that kind of stuff, you start a business on the side?
Steve Chou:	That’s correct, yes.

John Corcoran:	Okay, all right.  And how’d you pick wedding linens?

Steve Chou:	Yeah, so back when my wife got married – and again, she knew she was gonna cry at the wedding, and we’d spent all this money on photography.  She didn’t want to show up in these pictures crying with these little nasty tissues, and so we started looking for handkerchiefs, could not find any in the United States at all.

	So what ended up happening is we found this place in China, but it was a factory.  So you had to order hundreds and hundreds of linen, so we ended up ordering a whole bunch.  We used maybe a handful of them, sold the rest on eBay, and then they sold like hotcakes.

John Corcoran:	Okay.

Steve Chou:	So, yeah, so when it came time to start the actual business, we’d, kinda, gotten back in touch with that vendor and then decided to make a bulk order.

John Corcoran:	Okay, so tell me about the early days of putting together this business because we were just talking before we got on here, and there’s a couple of different elements to it because on the one hand, it’s an ecommerce store.

	And there are a lot of people who maybe think well, if I’m gonna start the next Amazon or some kind of ecommerce store, all I need to do is pound away at my computer on the weekends, work really hard, and then people will come to me.  But it was a little more nuance than that.  There’s a lot of different elements that went into building this business.  So tell me about the early days of putting it together.

Steve Chou:	Yeah, absolutely.  So one of the early implements is – that convinced us to start an ecommerce store was one of my buddies – his name is Eugy – he actually threw up an online store selling photography, his photographs.  And at first I was really intimidated.  I had never put together a website or anything in my life.  And so at first I was very intimidated by the process.

	But then when I saw my buddy’s site, he said he threw it together in, like, a day because he used open-source software.  And that’s, kind of, what convinced me that I could actually do this myself.

John Corcoran:	Okay.

Steve Chou:	So once we launched – and you mentioned a lot of people have this misconception that once you launch, you just sit there and plug away at the computer, wait for the Google spigot to open up, and then the traffic starts flowing in.  But it actually does not work that way.  A lot of – especially when you start, there’s a lot of leg work involved.  And so when we first launched our store, to get the early business, we had a three prong attack.

	So 1.) We started using AdWords, which is a pay-per-click service where you pay for someone to actually click on an ad in a Google search engine and land on your site.  We started doing content marketing for SCO, and perhaps the largest component of what contributed to our success was the fact that we went out.  And we actually cold called vendors, event planners, wedding planners who would actually purchase in bulk from our store.

John Corcoran:	Wow, and so what did you say when you called up these wedding planners?  Do you remember what your script was like?

Steve Chou:	It was something along the lines of these wedding handkerchiefs are becoming very popular.  People want – people are gonna cry at weddings, and they need something to dry their tears of joy.  And they can’t be found anywhere, and we carry a large selection.  And we also personalize them.  It would probably be something of very good interest to any of your clients.

John Corcoran:	And did you have luck with that?  Was it hard cold calling people?

Steve Chou:	It was really hard because the response rate tends to be pretty low.  It’s hit or miss, but the good thing about that is once you land one of them, pretty much they’re going to be a customer for a very long time.  So while the initial effort of getting one of them to be aware of your company – the chances are very low that they’re gonna purchase.

	But once you do land one, it’s, kind of like, this long-term customer for life.  And we still have – a lot of these customers who have been buying from us for the past seven years.
John Corcoran:	Wow, and the – you’re an engineer in your background, right, in your –

Steve Chou:	I am, yes.

John Corcoran:	– day job?

Steve Chou:	Yeah –

[Crosstalk]

John Corcoran:	So do you have any – did you have any experience, like, cold calling people?

Steve Chou:	No, absolutely not.  I didn’t want to stereotype engineers.  I thought this is where you were going John.  But we are a timid –

John Corcoran:	I certainly don’t want to, no, no.

Steve Chou:	– we’re a timid folk.  We’re used to communicating with a computer monitor.  So as you can imagine, it’s difficult to just go out and randomly start calling people.  But when things are slow in the beginning, you, kinda, come up ways – with ways to drum up business early on, right?

John Corcoran:	Right, right.  Okay, so you’re calling around, and then you’re also using Google AdWords.  How did you learn to use Google AdWords?

Steve Chou:	Yeah, so my brother-in-law actually works at Google, and he was actually in charge of some of the features of AdWords in the very beginning.  So I relied heavily on him as an introduction to AdWords, so I didn’t hemorrhage a lot of money early on.  A lot of people go on AdWords.  They end up wasting a whole bunch of money, and they just write it off right away saying it doesn’t work.  But there’s a lot of nuances to using the service.

John Corcoran:	Okay, so these – your brother-in-law and other friends helped you to learn how to use the service early on?

Steve Chou:	That’s correct, yeah.

John Corcoran:	Okay.  And so how did the business do?

Steve Chou:	So we can talk about a lot – I mean, there’s a lot of things that went wrong in that first year.  But we managed to make over $100,000.00 in our first year of business, which essentially supplanted my wife’s lost income.

John Corcoran:	So it enabled her to quit her job when your first child arrived?

Steve Chou:	Yeah, so pretty much once she ended her maternity leave, she gave notice.  And then at that point, she started running the store.

John Corcoran:	Okay, and then you continued to grow it, and you continue to operate it to this day.  And –

Steve Chou:	Uh-huh.

John Corcoran:	– tell me about some of the relationships that have helped contribute to its success over the years.  I mean, no doubt you’ve connected with other ecommerce store owners, and you even –

Steve Chou:	Uh-huh.

John Corcoran:	– and you, actually, train other people on how to use – how to create their own ecommerce store, which we’ll get to in a moment.  But talking about Bumblebee Linens in particular did you –

Steve Chou:	Sure.

John Corcoran:	– start connecting with other ecommerce store owners?

Steve Chou:	I did but not until I started my blog.  But before we get into that John, I just wanted to talk about some of the most important relationships that we had with our ecommerce store.  Because we import all of our linens from Asia, our relationship with our vendors in China are perhaps the lifeblood of our business.

John Corcoran:	Hum.

Steve Chou:	And I don’t know if you have any experience importing stuff or dealing with Asian vendors, but it’s all about the relationship.  When you doing have any relationships in place, and you’re just ordering for the first time, a lot of times what they hap – what’ll happen – and this happened to us in the very beginning also.  You place your first order for samples, and they’ll send you really good stuff, okay?  But when it comes time for you to place that bulk order, they, kinda, send you crap.  Like, they’ll mix in the crap, and this continued for our first couple orders where we had to throw away as much as 40 to 50 percent of the product that was getting sent to us.  And it wasn’t actually until we hopped on a plane, we flew to China, met with these guys face-to-face, had dinner with them, drank a little bit, and then just miraculously our product quality got better.

John Corcoran:	Interesting.  So –

Steve Chou:	Yeah.

John Corcoran:	– and did someone tell you that that’s what you needed to do, or did you intuitively think well, maybe we should go over and meet these guys face-to-face?

Steve Chou:	And again, we had to rely – so I actually have a buddy who actually owns a Chinese factory.  And –

[Crosstalk]

John Corcoran:	That certainly helps.

Steve Chou:	It does, yeah.  I mean –

John Corcoran:	You mean going –

Steve Chou:	– it does different things.

John Corcoran:	– into this you had this buddy, or this is someone you met through the ecommerce business?

Steve Chou:	No, no, no.  Going in I had a buddy, and he’s actually the cousin of my best friend.

John Corcoran:	Okay.

Steve Chou:	But what he does is he does different products than what we sell.  But he was like, “When you’re dealing with Chinese vendors, it’s all about the relationship.”  It’s all about getting to know them because if you don’t have that relationship, they’re gonna try to cut corners and try to save money at all – at whatever they can essentially.

John Corcoran:	So was the business very profitable at this point in time that you dropped a couple of grand on flying over to China?

Steve Chou:	Yeah, so even though we were throwing away 40 to 50 percent of our product, we were still making a very good profit margin, okay?  And so – and in fact you’d be amazed at how h – at what high prices we pay in the U.S. compared to what the prices we’re paying to source product in from Asia essentially.

John Corcoran:	Sure.

Steve Chou:	So –

John Corcoran:	And so –

Steve Chou:	But –

John Corcoran:	Sorry.  Go ahead.

Steve Chou:	No, I was just gonna say you can imagine that once we got that product quality up, our margins expanded even further so –

John Corcoran:	Hum.  What other things did you do in order to get customers, especially in those early days, and how did you develop relationships with customers?  Some people talk about – I don’t know if you did this, but in the early days of a business, trying to give special attention to their early customers because they don’t have too many of them.

Steve Chou:	Yeah, so I actually went a little above and beyond and – to the point where my wife started calling me, like, a stalker.  So let me tell you.  This is how it went down.  So in the back end of my store, I kinda wrote up this little script where you could just track everyone going through.

	And so as soon as someone entered in their contact information, I had it, and it just followed – I had this screen where I could follow every customer.  And there were a couple times when a customer abandoned their cart, right?  And it was really obvious because they’d leave for 15 minutes, and there’d be no activity yet they entered in their information as if they were gonna check out.

John Corcoran:	Hum.

Steve Chou:	So early on – and this is why my wife started calling me a stalker.  It’s because I would actually call those people, and I would say, “Hi.  I noticed you went through checkout, and you didn’t complete it.  Is there anything that I can help you with?”  And a lot of times – it freaked a couple of people out.  But a lot of times, the customer was very open to telling us what they were looking for or what was wrong with our store.  And that’s how we made subtle improvements to it.

John Corcoran:	Oh, interesting.  And the – but there were a few people who were taken aback by that?

Steve Chou:	Yeah, I mean, you could tell that they were surprised that they were getting the call, but I tried to be super polite about it.

John Corcoran:	Hum, okay.

Steve Chou:	Yeah.

John Corcoran:	Now, did you – what else did you do in order to develop relationships?  Did you go to conferences?  Did you start going to – joining organizations that wedding planners belong to or anything like that?

Steve Chou:	Not – early on we did not do any of those things.  Pretty much what we did was we focused on the customer.  So for example, b – due to the nature of our business and our high margins, as soon as a customer was unhappy with their product and if they called us, the first thing we did was we said just keep the product, and we’ll give you a full refund.  And we just took the hit.

	And I’m pretty sure that that word-of-mouth effect rippled because I vaguely remember this one instance where we had this customer from Georgia.  She called to complain about something.  We gave her stuff for free – her order for free, and we sent her another batch of what she had ordered.

	And she just belonged to this Georgia sewing club or something like that.  And they were using our products for their crafts, and all the sudden we got a flood of orders from Georgia.  So I didn’t think – I don’t think it was a coincidence.

John Corcoran:	Yeah, that’s great.  So what point in this process – well, first of all, you’re continuing to work fulltime, and you’re developing this on the side.  How did you manage – and you have a new baby.  So how did you manage to balance all this?

Steve Chou:	Yeah, so my wife pretty much manages the online store fulltime, and we have two employees in a warehouse.  And pretty much the heavy lifting is taken care of by those employees.  For me, I run a blog and a podcast and an online store course.  But in fact those don’t take that much time out of my day.  Prior to starting the podcast, I was pretty much only working five hours a week, I would say, on my blog properties.

John Corcoran:	And in spite of that, it’s done quite well.  So why – so let’s – first let’s take a step backwards and –

Steve Chou:	Okay.

John Corcoran:	– and which came first was it the blog or was it the ecommerce course?

Steve Chou:	Yeah, the blog came first.  People were asking me lots of questions on how we started a successful ecommerce store.  And I thought rather than answer the questions a bunch of times, just document it on a blog.

John Corcoran:	And why’d you call it my wife quit her job?

Steve Chou:	Well, I wanted something catchy and memorable, and my wife did quit her job.  So I thought it was appropriate.

John Corcoran:	Did –

Steve Chou:	Yeah.

John Corcoran:	– I imagine it’s pretty memorable?

Steve Chou:	Yeah –

John Corcoran:	Yeah.

Steve Chou:	– yeah.

John Corcoran:	So you started the blog, and then at some point along the way after you continued to get people asking questions about your expertise about starting an ecommerce, you start to – you decided to start an ecommerce course showing people how to do what you did?

Steve Chou:	Absolutely, yeah.

John Corcoran:	Okay.  And how did you learn how to put together a course?  And first of all, do you have any background in teaching?

Steve Chou:	No, not at all.

John Corcoran:	Okay, so how did you learn how to create a course even?

Steve Chou:	So John you have a blog, and so you know how it goes down.  With a blog, it’s never a one-person job, right?

John Corcoran:	Uh-huh.

Steve Chou:	When you’re blogging at – to get the word out about your content, you often have to rely on a lot of people, right?  And so it’s all about building relationships with other bloggers, building relationship with your readers.  So when it came time for me to actually create my online store course, it was – I actually didn’t want to do it.

	It was the readers coming to me saying hey, I’ll pay you to create a course and teach me how to do some of this stuff.  And so what ended up happening with my course was I ended up launching it without any material in it.  So I, basically, hosted a webinar.  I sent out an email to my list, and I said, “Hey, I’m gonna give an ecommerce webinar.  At the end, I’m gonna talk to you about the course that I’m gonna start.”

	And so what ended up happening is I threw this webinar.  A bunch of people joined, and at the end, I just mentioned my class.  I don’t have any material at all, but I promise if you sign up, I will go ahead and post material consistently and teach you how to start an online store.  Signed up 35 people right off the bat, and I was like oh crap.  Now I gotta put out the material.  That’s how it started.

John Corcoran:	That’s funny.  And what sorts of things have you done with the blog in order to develop those relationships with people so that they were ready to give you money as soon as you – even before you’d created a product?

Steve Chou:	Yeah, so a funny thing happens.  When you start writing in a blog, you naturally start getting emails from people who are interested in what you’re talking about.  And so I always try to reply to everyone that emails, and it’s always those first early readers that are the most memorable because you actually rely on them.  And they’re the people that come back, and they give you the confidence to continue because blogging is, quite frankly, a slog in the beginning.

John Corcoran:	And what other – did you start going to conferences to connect with other bloggers?

Steve Chou:	I did, yeah.  So I used to – so I actually met a whole bunch of people through various social media outlets first.  And we’d exchange a couple emails, do a couple live chats, but it wasn’t until I started going to conferences that I really started to build more lasting relationships because there’s one thing about chatting on text space chat or sending text messages.  It’s another thing to go out, hang out, drink, get drunk, hang out all night, and talk about all sorts of stuff.  It’s just a huge difference.

John Corcoran:	And the blog itself has become a business in itself is profitable at this point, right?

Steve Chou:	Yeah, in fact it makes more than my day job.  It made more than my day job last year, and then this year it’s gonna blow my day job out of the water so yeah.

John Corcoran:	Wow.  So those relationships with other bloggers that – the conferences you went to would you say that they contributed to the blog success?

Steve Chou:	Absolutely.  I mean, when it comes to promoting any of your material or promoting your podcast or promoting something that you’re gonna sell, a lot of times it helps to have friends who will help you get the word out.

John Corcoran:	What was your approach when you approached other bloggers when you’ve been building up your blog?

Steve Chou:	Approaching them for what?  Just to –

John Corcoran:	Yeah, I mean, just – if you saw someone you’re interested in, another blogger, do you email them?  Do you exchange social media messages with them?  How do you get – how do you go from seeing someone that maybe you’d like to develop a relationship with to actually developing a relationship with them if you haven’t met them at a conference?

Steve Chou:	Yeah, so if it’s someone who I feel, like, is a little bit out of my league, I’ll usually start with Twitter.

John Corcoran:	Okay.

Steve Chou:	If it’s someone, kind of, on my level, then I’ll just send them an email saying hey, I love your stuff.  I especially enjoyed this article.  I really have no reason to contact you other than to just, kinda, introduce myself, and hopefully we’ll keep in touch.

John Corcoran:	Hum.

Steve Chou:	And usually, I don’t ask for anything.  In fact I try to email someone consistently for maybe half a year even and – with the hope that maybe eventually if I ever need something, I’ll contact.  And I always offer to help.  I always offer – like, if they’re, for example, doing a book launch, I’ll offer to help get the word out about their book launch.  I always try to be the first person to contribute to the relationship.

John Corcoran:	And how do you manage this process?  How do you remember to follow up with people over six months?

Steve Chou:	All I do is it’s just Google – it’s just Gmail and tasks.  That’s it.

John Corcoran:	So you set a task for yourself to follow up with people?

Steve Chou:	I do, yeah, and I put it on my calendar.

John Corcoran:	How many people do you have that you – would be in this queue that you’d be following up with?

Steve Chou:	Usually, it’s just a handful.  Just the nature of my personality, I like to focus on a small group of friends as opposed to just casting a wide net.  So I would say under ten.

John Corcoran:	Okay.  And then you – at some point after starting your blog, you decide to start a podcast.  Why?

Steve Chou:	So the podcast – and I mainly started it so I could, actually, meet other people, people who were seemingly out of reach.  The thing is when you start a podcast and you want to interview someone and you, kind of, already have a decent web property, people will want to come on the show, even some of the bigger names.

John Corcoran:	So even though you don’t have an established relationship with them, you reached out to people who are bigger – quote unquote “bigger names”, people who are successful, and you got them to come on your show?

Steve Chou:	Absolutely, yeah.

John Corcoran:	They just said yes?

Steve Chou:	They said yes.  Some people require a little bit more convincing.  I had the advantage that I had a web property that was – that had significant traffic already.  That’s –

John Corcoran:	Okay.  So how did you convince them?  You said I’m getting X amount of traffic?

Steve Chou:	I just – pretty much the same approach when I approach someone.  I run this blog.  This is what I talk about.  I really love your work.  I think it’d be a really good fit for my podcast.  And then I tell them I’m happy to promote anything that you have available.  My blog gets this amount of traffic.  The podcast will get this amount of traffic.  Happy to help promote any of your items in any way I can.

John Corcoran:	How would you recommend someone who has a blog, wants to start a podcast, but doesn’t have a blog that gets a tremendous amount of traffic?  How would you recommend they go about it?

Steve Chou:	I would recommend that they go through friends of friends.  So establish their own personal relationships with someone who knows that person that you want to contact, and just, kinda, work your way up the chain.

John Corcoran:	Okay.

Steve Chou:	Yeah.

John Corcoran:	And now, you’ve written – I read you wrote on your blog that you felt, like, you were somewhat of a hermit before starting your podcast.  So tell me a little bit more about how – what the podcast has done for you in your network.

Steve Chou:	Yeah, so I’m pretty much contacting and interviewing one to two people every single week just using the methods that we’ve talked about.  And what’s funny about that is as I’ve gotten to know more and more of these people that I’m interviewing, I’ll, kinda, just drop the question is there anyone that you might recommend that would be a good fit for my podcast?  And it just, kinda, snowballs from there.  I started out with a few relationships, and they’ve just, kind of, ballooned as I’ve – as it’s gone on.  And that’s why it’s been really valuable for me.

John Corcoran:	So one thing people are really concerned about is the time commitment that running a business on the side takes.  And you mentioned that your blog was taking only about five hours per week prior to starting the podcast.  So now that you do the podcast how many hours per week does it take you?

Steve Chou:	Yeah, it’s about eight hours a week that I spend on all of my blog and web related properties.

John Corcoran:	So that’s not bad at all.

Steve Chou:	It’s not bad, and primarily it’s because I outsource the podcast editing now.

John Corcoran:	Okay.

Steve Chou:	That used to take me a lot of time.

John Corcoran:	And you’ve stra – I’ve read about this and talked with you about this.  You, kinda, struggle with the outsourcing, right/

Steve Chou:	I do, yes, yes.

John Corcoran:	How do you deal with that?  Why do you struggle with outsourcing?

Steve Chou:	So mainly it’s because I like to be in control of everything, especially the important things.  And it’s funny you say that.  So recently, I’ve loosened the reins simply because of time constraints.  And so if you contact me back in the day, I never would have outsourced a website design, and yet, I outsourced my last blog redesign to someone else.  I’ve just come to learn that I know how to do everything, but sometimes it – which makes it easier for me to outsource stuff now.

	And so I lay out a very specific set of guidelines.  So for example, during that website redesign, I laid out coding guidelines.  I told them which files I wanted edited specifically, and so once I did that, I felt comfortable with it –

John Corcoran:	And –

Steve Chou:	– because I was so specific.

John Corcoran:	– and part of the reason you started this whole journey of starting a business on the side and an ecommerce store which led to a blog which led to a podcast which led to a training course was lifestyle?

Steve Chou:	Uh-huh.

John Corcoran:	You wanted to live a particular lifestyle.  You had a child on the way, and so talk to me a little bit about the way that outsourcing has enabled you to live that lifestyle because on the one hand – I mean, I think we all struggled with this.  I struggle with this.  You want to have control, but on the other hand, control requires time.  And so it gets in the way of being able to enjoy your time with family and what not.

Steve Chou:	Yeah, so one of my rules is I absolutely want every single weekend to be free, completely free.  And so the reason I started outsourcing more was because once I took on the podcast, for example, it started creeping into my weekends.  And that’s when I knew I had to make a change essentially.

John Corcoran:	Yeah, I feel the same way.  I try and keep my weekends free, as well, for family time.  It – and especially, once you have a couple kids, it’s difficult.

Steve Chou:	Oh, yeah, for sure, yeah.

John Corcoran:	Yeah.  Okay, I want to ask you a couple more questions, and one of them that I think is a question that you get all the time which is so why haven’t you quit your job?  You’ve got these side jobs, side businesses that seem to run really well and make good money, so why are you still working your day job?

Steve Chou:	Yeah, so I don’t work for the money.  Both of our businesses blow my day job income out of the water, so the main reason why I work today is because – so first of all, it helps to know what I do for a living.  So I lead a team that develops microprocessors, and these devices – the hardware that we develop goes into digital cameras, cell phones, and that sort of thing.

	And in my heart, I’m a technical person, and so I always want to keep my foot in the door in some sort of tech aspect because I think tech is taking over the world.  All this stuff, right, the ecommerce store and the blog is a lot of fun, but it – but working my fulltime job, kinda, exercises different parts of the brain that I want to continue to exercise.

John Corcoran:	And that really gets back –

Steve Chou:	That –

John Corcoran:	– to the original goal which was to create a lifestyle that you want to live.  And if you were to extract the mental challenge that you get from your day job then you wouldn’t be achieving that, correct?

Steve Chou:	Yeah, that’s correct.  And maybe someday I might quit and try to create a startup of some sort that involves hardware and software so –

John Corcoran:	Oh, fun stuff.

Steve Chou:	Yeah.

John Corcoran:	Okay, so last question.  We’ve talked about it throughout this conversation here, but are there any more relationships that have been influential on your success, your career so far whether it’s the day job as an engineer or whether it’s the ecommerce store or the blog?  Any other key relationships, and I’m talking about mentors, friends, colleagues, business partners, associates that have really helped you to be success so far – be such a success so far?

Steve Chou:	Yeah, so one thing I want to mention is I wanted to give a shout out to my mastermind groups.  So I belong to two groups, one for blogging and one for ecommerce.  And just being able to talk and share experiences with these guys in our respective businesses has really helped me out because it saves me time in terms of what tools I need to use for my business and in terms of mistakes to avoid.  So give you an example.  Just recently, Black Friday just happened.

	We got together to talk about our Black Friday strategies for our ecommerce store, and one of the members of my mastermind gave me a strategy that I did not think about.  And going forward we are probably gonna focus more on this for our ecommerce store, so just little things like that.  I highly recommend that everyone go out and just find some peers and start a mastermind group.  You don’t have to meet weekly.  You can meet just once a month, and it’s still gonna be a huge help.

John Corcoran:	And – so for someone who isn’t familiar with that concept because I’m sure there are some listeners who aren’t, tell us a little bit about how you can organize a mastermind group and what it is exactly.

Steve Chou:	So, basically, you just reach out to other people who are doing similar things, and you say hey, would you like to meet once a week and talk about your business?  And we can do a breakdown.  We can put you in the hot seat, talk about different ways you can improve your business, what’s going right, what’s going wrong, and then set some goals.

	And what’s nice about that is when you get together and you start talking about goals, the other people in that group will hold you accountable for actually getting things done.  So it’s actually a big productivity gain as well.

John Corcoran:	Okay, very cool.  Well, thank you so much Steve for taking the time to talk to me.  So where can people check out more about you?

Steve Chou:	Yeah, so if you want to get in contact with me, I’m on Twitter at my wife quit, or you can just come on the blog at mywifequitherjob.com.  And if you’re getting married, you can go to Bumblebeelinens.com.  I’ll hook you up with some hankies.

John Corcoran:	All right.  Thank you so much Steve.

Steve Chou:	All right, man.  Take care.


Transcribed by GMR Transcription

The post 078: Steve Chou | How to Start a 6-Figure E-Commerce Business appeared first on Smart Business Revolution.

077: Vanessa Van Edwards | How to read body language
38:05
2017-09-21 04:57:47 UTC 38:05
077: Vanessa Van Edwards | How to read body language

rsz_smart_business_revolution_podcast_artwork_red

Vanessa Van Edwards is an expert in body language.

She explains to people like you and me you how our minds work, and what impact that has on us – our personal and business relationships, our career and our income.

She helps us to understand how to read body language and  how your behavior influences your relationships with others, AND how other people’s body language and behavior influences you.

Vanessa Van EdwardsShe has a popular YouTube Channel and website at ScienceofPeople.com where she covers topics like:

  • The Psychology of happiness
  • How to be memorable
  • How to harness your charisma
  • How to be attractive
  • How to win friends and influence people
  • How to detect a liar
  • How to deal with difficult people

In this interview, we talk about how understanding these topics can influence the relationships you develop in business.

This episode is sponsored by my new sponsor Aweber email marketing software. With Aweber, my email list went from a ghost town to 1,000, then 5,000 then 10,000 and beyond AND my income has increased in parallel.

If you are building a business and you haven’t started an email list yet, you need to start building your email list today. Check it out here.

 

Resources from this Episode:

Right Click here to download the MP3
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Transcript of Interview:


Intro....

John Corcoran:	All right.  I'm talking with Vanessa Van Edwards.  And Vanessa, now one of the biggest hurdles that people have with relationship building with going out to cocktail parties and networking and that sort of thing, meeting new people is they don't feel comfortable in their own skin.  And it shows in their body language.  You see people who walk into a cocktail party and they're just like tense and they're just so uncomfortable.

	And so the first question I wanna start for you is, how much can we really do about that?  I mean, aren't we kinda born the way we are?  Or at least by the time we've gotten to adulthood what's the point of even studying body language?  I mean, is there really anything that we can do about the way that our body language is or is that something that is innate to us or is there even – is there room for improvement in the way that our body communicates to others?

Vanessa Van Edwards:	We can definitely control it.  So there's a little bit of a myth around body language, that you're born with it and you can't change it.  The good news is that we send these – they're called micro messages.  So there are ways that our emotions, our internal states leak out or display in our body.  Those can be with facial expressions, they can be with voice tone, they can be with our body.

	And so what happens, we walk into a room, as you mentioned, into a networking event or on a date or in a pitch.  Before we even say a word our micro messages and our micro gestures signal the other people around us to our internal state.  And that's actually when they decide right away – our first impression happens usually within the first one-tenth of a second before we say anything.  That's when they decide if they like us, if they trust us and if they're gonna buy from us.

	So the problem is is that we focus all of our attention on what we're gonna say.  We script out our pitch.  We think – we practice our elevator pitch over and over again.  We think about what we wanna say to answer questions from clients or customers or interviewers.  But we very rarely think about how we wanna say something.  And so that's actually what matters more.  Our body language carries 4.3 times more weight, more mental weight than our words.

	So if you were to say – like even on this podcast if I were to say, oh yeah, I'm so happy to be here, now you know right away that [inaudible][00:02:21] – 

John Corcoran:	Yeah, that was my last guest actually who did it that way, yeah.  I won't be airing that episode though so that's cool.

Vanessa Van Edwards:	So, yes, we know that words are only half the battle.  Not even half the battle, usually about 40 percent of our communication.  So 60 percent is [inaudible].  So it absolutely – we're able to control it and it matters more than anything.

John Corcoran:	Wow.  So basically all that money I spent on law school was kind of a waste because that was all focused on what you say, whereas when you walk in the door, that's what makes such a big difference.  So should we just give up?  I mean, what's the answer for us then?  What the first step?
[Crosstalk]

Vanessa Van Edwards:	Definitely not.  Definitely not.  Never give up.  So here's what – I think school's a little bit backwards but it's okay.  We can flip that around and catch up.  We – our entire schooling career we're given technical skills, right.  You went to law school and learned technical skills, which are extremely important for career success.  Absolutely you need to know the technique, how to build your business.  You need to know the business principles.  Those are important.

	But the other part of the people skills – and I like to think of people skills like a social lubricant, if we will – if you will go there with me – that it just sort of smoothes away.  So you can have – and I work with a lot of technical people.  They are brilliant, I mean, brilliant.  They have amazing ideas and programming skills or graphic design skills but they can't pitch.

	So even though they have this amazing talent of technical skills, they can't smooth the way.  They can't negotiate.  They can't pitch themselves.  They can't read a room.  They can 't hire.  They can't do those things and so yes, absolutely, we've been spending the first half of our life doing technical skills.  Now we just have to catch up on people skills.  And luckily they're much easier to learn than technical skills and more fun.

John Corcoran:	Okay.  So that's a good point.  And I like that metaphor because it's kinda like your car's not gonna go forward unless you have an engine.  But the engine's not gonna work unless you have lubricant, unless you have motor oil in it, right?

Vanessa Van Edwards:	Exactly.  Exactly.  I mean, I'm not a car buff, John, I'm not gonna lie but I think that a car needs lubricant.  Or maybe people skills are the tires in that analogy.

John Corcoran:	All I know is I turn the key and it goes.  If it stops going I'm taking it into the shop so – 

Vanessa Van Edwards:	Yeah, all I ask is we don't do sports analogies.  I'm really bad at those.

John Corcoran:	Okay.  We should probably stick to the analogies that we're comfortable with.  Okay.  So – all right.  So technical skills are important.  So let's say someone comes in to you to work with you, a client, and they are a brilliant technician but they're bad at the social skills.  What do you do to work with them to get them better?

Vanessa Van Edwards:	So the first thing that I teach is I take the basics of body language that your mom and dad probably taught you.  We – I usually ask people, what do you know about body language?  They tell me, oh, good eye contact, good posture and a good handshake, all great starts, absolutely.  But that's about like 20 percent of what you need.  So what I do is I first go through those three basic things and just supercharge them.  So, yeah, eye contact is great but let's get – let's drill down into what eye contact means.

	First of all, 100 percent eye contact is actually not ideal.  So if you've ever been with – 

John Corcoran:	That's very creepy – 

Vanessa Van Edwards:	Yeah, yeah, if you've ever been with someone who gives you that kinda like they're boring into you with their eyes, it is creepy, it is invasive, it is distracting.  The ideal, the research and everything we do – so I run a human behavior research lab and so everything we do is science-based.  None of these are my opinions on tips.  What we found is that when you're looking at eye-tracking studies, the sweet spot, the ideal for eye contact is 60 to 70 percent of the time.  That is when you feel really connected to someone like they're really charismatic, they're super engaging.

	And so it's not 100 percent and it's not less than 60, right.  It's not looking down at your feet or overhead gazing.  It's that sweet spot of 60 to 70 percent.  And also is how you do the eye contact.  So there are actually three different kinds of eye contact.  This is the pattern that your eyes make on someone else's face.

	So when we look at a face, we actually aren't just looking at their eyes.  We're looking at their nose, their mouth, their forehead.  And what they found is that alphas in business, business leaders really, really powerful people who they just walk into a room and we're like, whew, that guy is serious.  That guy is impressive.

	What is happening is they're making a very specific eye pattern on your face and they do this subconsciously, but we can learn to do it consciously if it doesn't come naturally to you.  They keep their eye contact extremely high, so they look at your eyes, they make a pattern between your eyes and your forehead.  It looks like a little triangle, so your eyes bounce between the middle of your forehead and your eyes.  That is very, very – it's called power gazing.  So that kinda eye contact signals to other people that you're very credible, that you're very competent and you can be taken seriously.

	When you're in social situations, gaze naturally drops.  It drops down from eye, eye to your mouth.  And the reason for this is because we're feeling more relaxed, we're feeling more intimate, we take in more of someone's face.  So if you wanna cue someone or you wanna know how someone feels about you, you can watch the pattern that their eyes make on your face and that will tell you exactly what kind of relationship they wanna have with you.  Any lower than the mouth is intimate gazing and that, we all know, is beyond the business realm and that can cue you also to how someone feels about you or what kinda relationship they wanna have.

	So I say that eye contact is great but making sure that you're using the right amount and you're using the appropriate form depending on the situation that you're in.

John Corcoran:	How do you – are there any skills or tips that you have for people that can – so they can figure out how – if they're giving the right amount of eye contact or not other than like videotaping themselves?

Vanessa Van Edwards:	I would definitely recommend – in all my courses I recommend getting a learning partner.  So for example you have someone who's like basically your – I call them your dream killer.  It's the person who's like, your handshake really sucks.  You need to fix it.  And they're just really direct about it.  So – 

John Corcoran:	And you need an Altoid.

Vanessa Van Edwards:	Yeah, yeah, exactly.  So I have a dream killer in my life.  And whenever I need really honest feedback about something, that's what I do.  So A. you can film yourself, that's no problem.  You can actually – during Skype and video calls you can see where your gaze naturally goes.  A little bit easier when someone's like a flat face.  Are you glancing down, are you glancing at them, are you glancing at the camera?  That can actually signal to you what your natural tendency is.

	Usually just being aware of these patterns you can be like, okay look, I naturally fall into social gazing without even thinking about it.  Or you know what, I can't believe it, I constantly anchor down to my feet.  So anchoring is like where your eyes tend to go naturally.  And so if you tend to anchor down to your feet, you're always dropping your chin down and looking down.  That can be a very negative micro gesture and so people will first see you as kinda standoffish, not relatable, a little bit negative.  So just being aware of it, paying attention to your patterns is the easiest way to change it.

John Corcoran:	So I wanna ask you about cultural differences.  So how much of this varies from culture to culture?  Because I can hear in the back of my head someone who's from Europe or the Middle East or something like that saying that, no, no, no, no, no, that's not the way it is in my neck of the woods.

Vanessa Van Edwards:	Sure.

John Corcoran:	So tell me about that.

Vanessa Van Edwards:	Yeah, so most body language is universal.  And the reason for that is because a lot of our body language and our nonverbal gestures came from a survival mechanism.  They came from a way that as humans we just learn to survive.

	For example, when someone walks into the room we typically tend to look at their hands first.  And the reason for that is because back in our caveman days, no matter what culture you're in or what language you spoke or what sex you are, you always looked at a stranger's hand to see if they were carrying a weapon, to quickly identify if they were a friend, a foe or a threat.  So we still do this even though we don't – aren't usually approached with a weapon.

	So most – most body language is universal.  Now there are a couple of cultural differences.  For example, there are a few cultures where you're trained to not look someone in the eye, in a couple of Middle Eastern Asian cultures.  What I'm talking about today – because otherwise we would be like – we would asterisks on every single point – is mostly for western cultures, what we're talking about today.

John Corcoran:	Okay.  Good point.  So one of the – so one of the questions I wanna ask was, how should you – well actually, the first question is, should you change your behavior or your eye gaze based on who you're talking to, especially if someone's from a different culture?  I feel like sometimes naturally I might just do that depending on the person I'm talking to.  I guess those are two different questions.  So one is should you change your behavior in any way when you're talking to someone who you perceive to be from a different culture?

Vanessa Van Edwards:	I think that it's important to be genuine and authentic to what feels natural to you, right.  If you're constantly changing your nonverbal in major ways to fit every different culture that you're meeting, it can be a little bit – your brain has trouble focusing on any of the verbal content because all you're doing is thinking about unnatural nonverbal.

	So if you' were traveling to their country, yes, definitely.  It is respectful to them to be able to look – to look up their rules from country to country.  And there are specific nonverbal rules from country to country.  But if you are in the United States or Europe or Australia or Canada and someone's come to your culture, I think that you wanna stick with what's naturally you.

	Now, it's good to be aware of what some cultural differences could be.  Like for example, with haptics.  Haptics is this fancy scientific word for touch.  If you are – maybe this person is from a different culture and you're not sure if touch is appropriate, always better to hang back and be a little bit respectful.  So it's good to be aware but I think that you shouldn't change it unless you're in their culture, which is a nice way of showing respect.

John Corcoran:	Thinking of a famous George W. Bush giving I think it was Angela Merkel, the prime minister of Germany, a little backrub.  I don't know if you remember that.

Vanessa Van Edwards:	Oh, my gosh.  Yes, I do remember that.  That was super awkward.  That's a micro gesture gone wrong right there.

John Corcoran:	Right.  Okay.  So the second part of that question that I was stumbling through there was, I notice sometimes with my own behavior – maybe this is just me, maybe other people do this – but I change my behavior depending on the person I'm talking to sometimes.  Is that a good thing?  Is that a bad thing?  Do other people do that or am I just a freak?

Vanessa Van Edwards:	Oh, no.  Everyone does that.  It's very natural because, I mean, think about it, you are going – your nonverbal mirrors or matches your internal state.  So if you are with a very VIP high-pressure client, internally you're like, all right, keep it together.  Gotta take this real seriously.  Gotta bring you’re a game.  So externally your hopefully gonna show a lot more power, a lot more confidence, maybe a little bit of nerves but hopefully you know how to control those, which is one of the things that we teach.  Whereas if you're with an intimate friend, you're so excited to see them, you can't wait to catch up and share things, you would be internally relaxed and so therefore you'd be more externally relaxed.

	So always, always you wanna go with it.  I just like to be more purposeful, like to be in control and be purposeful with your gestures.

John Corcoran:	Okay.  So you brought up a great point and that is talking to a VIP or an influencer or someone you want to become a client, someone you look up to, someone who's really successful and how you suppress your nerves when you're talking to that person.  I talk about this a lot.  One of the things I recommend is talking about something that's more of a personal nature.

	Like for example, if you're talking to Donald Trump you wouldn't talk about real estate, or I wouldn't talk about real estate because I don't – there's no way I could contribute anything close to what he's talking – what he knows, his level of knowledge.  But if I were to bring the conversation to something that we both maybe have in common that we have something simple like our favorite burger place, then it would be a lot more natural.  And there would be – it would help to suppress my own nerves.  Is that a strategy that you recommend or are there other tips that you have?

Vanessa Van Edwards:	Yes, definitely.  So the first thing to think about is how we naturally show our nerves so that we're aware of how they come out.  So there's a couple of things that we do, everyone does across cultures, when we feel nervous.  The first thing is self soothing.  So when we're nervous typically our cortisol levels are very high.  That's the stress hormone.  We can even have adrenaline pumping.  Our heart rate is going.  We might be sweaty, our hands – our palms might be clammy.

	So what we do naturally instinctively to calm ourselves down is we try to stroke ourselves – and that sounds a little bit crazy, but think about when you're a baby and you were fussy or you were upset.  What did your parents do?  They picked you up, they held you close, they rubbed your back, they rubbed your head.  They physically touched you.  What that does physiologically, when you rub your hands together, crack your knuckles, fuss with your tie, women tuck their hair behind their ears, all of those are versions of what we did as babies.  We're trying to calm ourselves down by self soothing and touching our arms or our skin.

	That's because when we do that, we are able to take a deep breath, our heart rate slows down.  I actually tell speakers before they take the stage, there's a couple things they can do, but one of the things I tell them to do if they feel like they're hyperventilating or their heart rate is out of control is they can actually rub their arms or forearms.  That physiologically calms them down.

	So any kind of self-soothing gesture, it looks like nerves.  It goes calm you down but the problem is it signals to other people that you are very, very nervous.  So what I like to tell people to counteract that is first of all be aware.  Be aware if you're cracking knuckles, biting on pens.  Some people do something called the leg cleanse when they kind of rub their palms on the sides of their legs or in their pockets they rub their fingers together.  Be aware that you do that.  And then counteract it with a power pose.

	So the way that you counteract cortisol – cortisol is that stress hormone I just mentioned – is you try to get your body to release testosterone, which is pretty much the opposite.  This is sort of a simplified – I'm not gonna go too much into biology for you, but testosterone is the strength hormone.  It's the power hormone.  It's what we want both for men and women.

	When it's coursing through our bloodstream we think faster, we have higher endurance.  It makes us perform better.  It's exactly what we want coursing through our body to make us feel confident.  It's literally the chemical of confidence.  So to counteract that nerve is to say, okay, I'm fidgeting, I'm cracking my knuckles.  I need to get some testosterone going.

	And the way that you get your testosterone going is you literally take up more physical space.  So the more physical space you take up the more testosterone your body produces.  And they've repeated this over and over again in the lab that if you firmly plant both your feet on the floor, so uncross your legs, roll your shoulders down and back, lift your chest, chine, forehead quite high so that you're sitting up as tall as you possibly can go.  And then leave your arms nice and loose by your sides or even gesture, if you wanna put on a great playlist and dance a little bit.  The more space you take up, the more testosterone your body produces.  And that happens after only the first few seconds of doing that.

John Corcoran:	Yes, and I love that.  I actually – so it's Harvard Psychologist Amy Cuddy, I think, is the one who has a great TEDTalk on this.  And I wrote about that in an article I wrote in [inaudible][00:18:00] How to Enter a Room Like a Boss, about power poses.  And I kinda jokingly said in the article, if you go in the bathroom – before you're going into a room where you're gonna be real nervous, just go in the bathroom and get in a bathroom stall and just do the big As in the air or do jumping jacks or something like that.  And that will actually lower your nervousness and make you more comfortable.  And it's amazing and it works.

Vanessa Van Edwards:	Yeah, absolutely it works.  And a natural way to do that, I highly recommend, yes, bathroom posing, totally fine.  I listen to music while I usually will drive places that kinda like gets me sorta loose.  And then also I bring newspapers to VIP meetings.  So instead of checking my phone, which is the ultimate low power body language, you tilt your head down, your shoulders are rolled in, your arms are pinned to your chest, the opposite is reading a newspaper.

	So instead of checking my phone, I'll often bring a Wall Street Journal or a New York Times.  And that's what I read before I go on stage or before I go into a meeting.  It's a very, very natural easy way to power pose.  And you get to review headlines and see – for conversation starters.  It's a really easy thing to do.  And so that's something that I do that's really great for both verbal and nonverbal tactics.

John Corcoran:	And you look really smart.  But first – 

Vanessa Van Edwards:	And you look really smart, exactly.

John Corcoran:	But the first is, where do you find a newspaper?  I mean, geez, where do you find one of those?

Vanessa Van Edwards:	I know.  I live in Portland.  Everything's old school here.

John Corcoran:	Okay.  That makes sense.  Okay.  So what about – let's talk about leaders, okay.  So like political leaders, business leaders, leaders of particular industries, what can we learn from people who are in positions of leadership that we can apply in our lives?

Vanessa Van Edwards:	Sure.  There's so many characteristics of leaders.  That section is about – it's two hours in one of my courses.  But I'll pick my favorite one which I hint out a little bit earlier, which is the hands.  When we – we did a research study where we coded hundreds of hours of TEDTalks.

	So what we did is we wanted to know if there was patterns between the most popular TEDTalks and the least popular TEDTalks and if it had anything to do with nonverbal.  Because the study in the labs say that your body matters more than your words.  So we wanted to see if that actually holds true with TEDTalks.  Like was there differences with the talks that have millions of views with the talks that have a couple hundred thousand views?  And by the way, a couple hundred thousand is not small but on the TED scale it is.

	So we coded the big ones and the small ones and the medium ones.  And we watched for nonverbal patterns.  And we found that there were three specific nonverbal patterns.  We're actually researching that research in the new year right around TED coming out.  But one of the things that we found was there was a very, very specific way that the most popular TEDTalk speakers use their hands.  And this comes from an evolutionary place.

	So when we can see someone's hands, our brain is able to relax.  Like our amygdala actually disengages.  And the reason for that is because we think of them as a friend.  They're not carrying a weapon.  They're not hiding anything.  So when you have your hands in your pockets or they're tucked into your purse or they're underneath the desk or they're behind a boardroom table or a podium or a lectern, your audience, whoever you're speaking with, their brain cannot fully trust you.  No matter what you say, the brain – you're speaking on a brain level here – it cannot trust you.

	So what we found is that not only are these all popular TEDTalk speakers, every single one of them have their hands visible the entire time.  They never went into a pocket, they never stood behind a podium.  They never put their hands behind their back, which is another thing that sometimes speakers will do.  But they also use their hands to explain their concepts.  So it was as if they decided to nonverbally emphasize their words.

	And this has a really powerful effect on the brain because if you can explain something to the brain on two different channels, so you're speaking to them but you're also showing them, and even three if you have slides or a video, you are increasing your comprehension and your influence exponentially.

	So what they would do is they would say something like, we take a really big concept and we break it down into small steps.  And they would, on a big concept they would open up their hands as if they were holding a large beach ball.  And then when they said, we break it down into small steps, they would push their hands together and almost make like a bullet list with their hands.

	A super small quick gesture but we find this over and over again that leaders speak to you on two or three different channels.  They use their words very powerfully.  They use their hand gestures very powerfully.  They use their voice tone very powerfully.  And that is why they're so memorable and that's why people can trust them so quickly.

	So that's just a really sort of basic one on the body language of leaders.  But honestly, if you could just focus on that it would increase your charisma tremendously.

John Corcoran:	Yeah, it's interesting.  My old boss, Bill Clinton, when he would speak behind a podium, he would put his hands all the way around the podium.  He'd put --  like he would grip the sides of the podium that he was speaking at – the lectern that he was speaking at.  And it kinda became a joke like people recognized that that's kinda what he did.

	But it's interesting because now that you mention having your hands around the podium, showing your hands like that it seems like that helps the audience to trust him a little more.

Vanessa Van Edwards:	Oh, yeah.  Actually I use a picture of Bill Clinton in one of my presentations doing exactly that.  He's incredibly good.  And I don't know if he was trained to do that.  Most politicians have body language coaches.  But he's very natural so he could just instinctively know.

	Because, right, if you, as a speaker, and hopefully one of the things that we – in our advance courses we try to teach our students, is all of these tips are great, but what really is important is being able to be responsive in your nonverbal.  So for example, if you're speaking or you're pitching to a panel of judges or you are delivering a pitch to a VIP, yes, you wanna have rehearsed muscle memory, great body language and great verbal.  But you also wanna be incredibly responsive.

	So for example, if you see your audience, their body language tense up, their body language change, they show you an angry micro expression, they start doing self-soothing behavior, you know, ah-ha, I have gotten off track, I've lost them, they're tuned out.  So you can actually change your behavior to realize that.

	So I would not be surprised if self consciously Bill Clinton picked up on the fact that when he had his hands hidden, his audience was restless.  But when he did that with the podium, they immediately quieted down and perked up.  So we do that naturally but you can also hone it by knowing what to look for.

John Corcoran:	And how do you – when you're looking out at an audience, you're giving a speech, how do you know that it's not just a couple of people who are just, for whatever reason, are having a bad day?

Vanessa Van Edwards:	I try to get those couple of people.  I'm very, very responsive to my audiences.  One of my favorite things about public speaking actually is I feel like it's a real – I feel like it's a nonverbal sign of respect, right.  If I go and I pitch my presentation and I don't really respond to the audience, you're like, that's okay, it's very one-sided.  But I love trying to get those one or two people who are having a bad day.  I consider that a personal challenge.

	And by the way, it doesn't mean that you're ignoring everyone else.  It just means that you're taking what you're doing and making it even better.  So it might be giving them a little bit more eye contact.  It might be speaking in a different more powerful voice tone.  Whatever it is, there's a lot of different strategies you can use, but I try to get each and every one of those people.  But I like that.  I might be weird so – 

John Corcoran:	So there's someone down in the front row who's just having a bad day, being kinda uncomfortable and wrapped up and with their arms crossed.  You're drilling in with your eyeballs, looking straight at them.

Vanessa Van Edwards:	Well, I wanna make their day better.  I wanna show them – typically when people are irritable it's because they – and I won't go too far into this, but when somebody's having a bad day, they're irritable, whatever it typically has something to do with worth.  They don't feel like a relationship is worth it.  They don't feel like they're worth it.  They don't feel like their time's worth it.  They don't feel like their time is well spent, whatever it is.

	And so when you just very, very slightly adapt to someone or attune to someone by showing them like, I see you, I hear you, I get you, I appreciate you're here, they become your biggest fans.  They're the ones you learn the most from.  And so if I can make someone's day better, that makes my day better.

John Corcoran:	Okay.  A couple more questions.  And I wanted to ask about charisma because you've written and spoken about charismatic people.  So what is it – why are some people more charismatic than others?  And also not all charisma is exactly the same.  If you compare the charisma – we were talking about political leaders, I mean, not everyone's gonna agree with this politically but a lot of times I use presidents as an example.  One, because I worked for one and two, because I think you have to agree, anyone who makes it to the oval office has got some level of charisma.

	So if you compare different political leaders and the charisma they have, it's not always the same.  And same thing with people that we know just in day-to-day life, some people have different types of charisma.  So what is it that people have that is charisma, if you can define it, and how can we learn from them?

Vanessa Van Edwards:	Yeah, I get very excited about charisma, so I'll try to keep myself calm as we talk about this.  So it gets me very riled up when people talk about charisma as one way.  Like for example, most people who teach or talk about charisma basically say you have to be an extrovert.  You have to be an extrovert to be charismatic.  And that is simply not the case.

	There are unique brands of charisma where you can have a quiet power or a bubbly persona or a bookish or knowledgeable personality.  There are many, many different brands of charisma.  It's just finding the one that works for you.  Now the one thing that science has found is true across all different kinds of charisma is that charisma, to be very charismatic you have to have a perfect blend.  And it has to be a blend of two specific traits, warmth and competence.

	So if you're just warm, you're very approachable, you're relatable but you're not taken very seriously.  You're not very credible.  If you're just competent, you are seen as very credible, very powerful but you're kind of imposing.  You're not relatable or approachable.

	So you have to have both.  And this can be in many different ways, but you have to be able to show that you are trusting and warm and you're also credible and competent.  And so that is actually what people mean when they say, oh, he was so charismatic or she was so charismatic.  If they're talking about they had this perfect blend of those two things – and, by the way, an aspect of warmth is authenticity.  And that's one of the reasons why if you are an introvert and you are pretending to be an extrovert, you are not gonna come across as charismatic because people can pick up on authenticity.  So it's finding your unique blend which I think is the ultimate challenge.

John Corcoran:	I think that's good for people who consider themselves to be introverts, which by the way is the vast majority of people, correct?

Vanessa Van Edwards:	So – 

John Corcoran:	That's what I've heard.  I've heard people say that something like 90 percent of the population considers themselves introverts.

Vanessa Van Edwards:	Well, okay.  So I am doing research right now on introversion and extroversion.  And what we're finding is – and this is not conclusive yet, but I've coming out with a post on this right after Thanksgiving – there is a third – 

John Corcoran:	All right, Vanessa.  So then the message is if you're an introvert, be an introvert and if you're an extrovert, just become pro being an extrovert.  Don't try to be something you're not.  I think that's a great lesson.  Okay.  So I wanna ask you one final question then we'll let you go.  So pretend that this is your Oscar speech.  You've just been given a lifetime achievement award.  So the question that I always like to wrap up with is, what are the relationships throughout your career that have made the difference so far?

	So I'm talking about particularly in the business world, the business partners, mentors, friends, business associates, teachers that have really helped your business to be successful to the point that it is today.

Vanessa Van Edwards:	Yeah, I love ending on gratitude.  I would say the first thing that pops into the head as soon as you said who would you thank who supported you, are the peers and colleagues in my awesome clubs.  So we – I do masterminds as though – where everyone else uses – although we call them awesome clubs, they have a very specific structure.  And I am in three fabulous mastermind awesome clubs.  And they have helped me so tremendously.

	They're peers and colleagues who are in some related industries but they have kept me so accountable.  And they tell me hard truth.  I would always rather hear hard truth than live in ignorant bliss.  And they have so kindly given me constructive criticism that – and pushed me out of my comfort zone.  I am so grateful to them for that and also for their – just how inspiring they have been, watching them grow in their own businesses and share their vulnerabilities.  So there's about 15 people in those three groups, five per group.

	And then definitely my husband.  I met my husband and started my business that year.  That was nine years ago.  I could not have done it without him because he's the one who troubleshoots pretty much everything, my website.  He was chief marketing director, chief web optimizer, chief, chief everything for a while until I was able to build a team.  So really without him I wouldn't be able to do it.  And so I'm very, very grateful for those two very different but very wonderful groups.

John Corcoran:	Excellent.  And I've done episodes where we've gone in depth about creating an awesome club or a mastermind group, but did you organize those three different awesome clubs yourself.  And can you just share a little bit about what's so valuable about them?

Vanessa Van Edwards:	Yeah, so I made a decision at the beginning of last year, so the beginning of 2014, that I wanted to stop doing networking events and replace all of my networking time with mastermind time.  So I was invited to one group, got to try it out, saw what worked and what didn't work and then created two new ones.  So I'm in one all female group and then I'm in one coed group that I created.
\
	And very specifically, I figured out that you had to have a structure to it.  And the structure that we have is five questions that we answer every time.  The first one is, what are you working on? So just a basic catch up from each member.  Second, what was your biggest success this month? Because I found that otherwise we don't celebrate your successes and you don't take a moment to pat yourself on the back and let other people pat you on the back.

	Third, what is your biggest challenge?  And that's usually where we'll do a deep dive.  If someone's having a challenge, we all work and try to figure out how to help them on it.  Fourth, what is your measurable quantifiable goal in the next four weeks?  We meet once a month and we check a goals worksheet to make sure that we've achieved our goal from the previous month.  And then lastly, how can the group help?

	I find that with that structure we you can do anything.  It's a great way to really get a lot out of an hour meeting.  And we can do it in an hour usually.

John Corcoran:	Very cool.  And I'm actually just now, and am embarrassed to say, reading "Think and Grow Rich" by Napoleon Hill, which I probably should've read a long time ago.  It's an excellent book although I have to say quite dated in a lot of different things.

Vanessa Van Edwards:	But principles that last forever, right.  I mean, really those principles will last forever.

John Corcoran:	Most of them, right, yeah.  But they talk about mastermind groups or I didn't – they didn't refer to them as awesome clubs.  I don't think Napoleon Hill used that term but it was interesting to hear about that.  So excellent.  Thank you so much, Vanessa.  And where can people learn more about you?

Vanessa Van Edwards:	ScienceOfPeople.com.  That's where all the free stuff is.  And I hope that it inspires you.  It's my – it's our little – our baby.

John Corcoran:	Great stuff.  Thank you, Vanessa.

Vanessa Van Edwards:	Thanks so much for having me.

Transcribed by GMR Transcription

The post 077: Vanessa Van Edwards | How to read body language appeared first on Smart Business Revolution.

076: Michael Simmons | How to Connect and Build Your Network
37:12
2017-09-21 04:57:47 UTC 37:12
076: Michael Simmons | How to Connect and Build Your Network

rsz_smart_business_revolution_podcast_artwork_red

Michael Simmons is a serial social entrepreneur and the Founder of Empact.

He’s also a prolific writer for fellow contributor for Forbes, where we write about similar topics – we both write about relationship-building and connecting.

In this interview we discuss:

  • How the academic field of network science can influence how you build relationships in business
  • How to connect with people who are more successful than you are
  • How to get on the radar of people you want to connect with
  • Why content creation is a critical skill for building relationships
  • How you can do something simple like fix other people’s computer problems as a way of providing value and building trusted relationships with people

Michael SimmonsThis episode of the Smart Business Revolution podcast is sponsored by Aweber email marketing software. I’ve been using Aweber for a number of years now and I can say Aweber is one of the biggest engines behind my growth.

As my email list has grown, there is a direct correlation to my business revenue increasing. Aweber allows me to communicate and build relationships at scale. It has diversified my revenue and my revenue is increasing.

Go to Aweber today and start growing your business with email for just a one dollar trial

Enjoy!

Resources from this Episode:

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Transcript of Interview:

 
Intro...

John Corcoran:	All right.  I am talking with Michael Simmons.  Michael is a Forbes writer and author.  And, Michael, thank you for taking time to talk to me.

Michael Simmons:	I’m excited to be here.  Thanks, John.

John Corcoran:	And I left out a couple of other things because you're an entrepreneur and you're an amazing connector and a great writer and you write about the – similar topics that I write about.  You talk about relationship building and networking.  

And let’s just dive into one of the biggest questions that I get over and over again, which is people who want to build relationships with people who are successful, VIPs, influencers, whatever you want to call them, but who have a feeling, especially if they're younger, especially if they're early in their career – I have a feeling – what do I possibly have to offer someone who’s very successful, someone who’s very influential?  So what do you say to people who do that – or conversely, for you, what have you done to build the amazing relationships that you’ve built with people who are influential?

Michael Simmons:	Well, we’ve had events at the White House, Capitol Hill, United Nations, and also convened many successful entrepreneurs who’ve created billion dollar companies life Steve Case, founder of Chobani, congressmen, governors, and other folks – senior administration officials.  And so we’ve had a lot of – and I think the obvious thing is – okay.  How can you help people?  I think convening is a really powerful way to do that, whether it’s dinners or larger events.  

That’s the way that we’ve done it.  And one way to look at it is – how I look at it is if you make an introduction that can really be powerful and if you have an event of let’s say 50 people it’s almost like making hundreds or even thousands of connections and if each person at that event meets ten new people you’ve facilitated 500 introductions.  So you can really – that one event can really put you in a completely different place when you're in a new field.

John Corcoran:	So what if you feel like you can't organize a dinner?  You mentioned introductions.  How can you get started with introducing people, particularly if you feel like you don’t have that many powerful, influential people in your network?  Where should you start?

Michael Simmons:	Yeah.  I think the key is understanding – is practice.  So I know that’s not the best answer, but I’ll get more specific.  But I think over time one of the challenges is how to help someone – is how do you don’t know how you're going to help them, but the more you practice it and just start noticing how can I be helpful, maybe offering suggestions – can I help you in this way?  You start to notice patterns in how you can help people.  

A lot of the times when you say can I help you – how can I help you – the people aren’t going to be able to answer because they don’t know how you can help, but once you become wherever your strengths or what people can – so when I was in college I would even do something as basic as fixing peoples’ computer problems.  I know that sounds really basic, but I met a lot of people that way.  That was just something that I could do that the other people that have seen a lot of success – they have I guess had normally other people do it and their home computers – they couldn’t do.  

I’ve – another thing is if – being in college at the time – a lot of companies want to work with interns and they're always looking for really high quality talent so the more you can almost become like a recruiting agency.  Another thing is they want to – if you can introduce them to your school to be a speaker – so each person’s different, but it’s really looking at every level.  What are the assets you have and who would they be valuable for?  

Granted, if you're not a huge, successful entrepreneur you're obviously not going to be able to give them that level, but no matter where you are you do have something to contribute even if it’s just a different perspective or sharing stuff on social media.

John Corcoran:	Yeah.  If you're the, kind of, person who’s listening to this thinking I don't know what my particular unique abilities are or my skill set is, is there any tools or methods for determining what that is, what people – what strengths you have?

Michael Simmons:	I think it – and that’s where it came back to practice.  It’s really asking it a lot of times and seeing what people say and then once you have a hint then – a way you think you can help just asking if that would be helpful.  So – and even a bunch – I think the – if somebody writes something online that – they're easy people to help because every writer wants more people to see their work so if you share their work consistently you’ll be noticed and if – in doing it authentically – and like – you’re liking it and commenting and giving feedback on what you really liked or what you didn’t like.  You can very quickly just be on someone’s radar screen.  

And different professions – so that’s writers.  In a different profession there's the same, sort of, list of – okay.  These are simple ways you can help them.  So it’s hard to say it for just every profession.

John Corcoran:	Sure.  What about keeping in touch with people as your network gets larger and larger and you move through your career and you lose touch with people?  Is there value to remaining in touch with people?

Michael Simmons:	Yeah, definitely.  I – my approach to that is, one, I think content actually is really one of the best ways to build relationships and I – going into writing on this topic I – I viewed – I wasn’t looking at content, but I realized that the content I was writing was building my relationships with people more than anything else.  So just – it gets on peoples’ radar and it just – they keep on thinking of you.  

John Corcoran:	That’s so true.  I feel that way.  You and I don’t speak all that frequently, but I feel like I have gotten to know you from seeing your writing in Forbes and Entrepreneur and all those other places.  And you – I was just interviewing someone else who said that he does a service based business and when people come to him they are ready to buy immediately because they’ve already gotten to know him through the content that he puts out there.  

Michael Simmons:	Yeah, exactly.  And it’s – that is – I wrote an article, How to Win Friends and Influence People in the Digital Age, and really, when you think about it it’s a pretty huge shift.  Over the history of human civilization we’ve built relationships through in person conversation and there's a certain skill set to having – being good at conversation, being able to ask questions, being able to listen, to smile – really basic things that take as many times and awkward years learning how to communicate.  

And as a society we’re really going through that shift right now where – it started off with just social media where it’s instead just a few people or small percentage and a huge percentage of people are creating content, but now what – social media is really expanding.  We have medium for long form content and podcasts and LinkedIn is open so I think content is really becoming a critical – might be one – the critical skill for building relationships and getting ahead that way.

John Corcoran:	Yeah, it really is.  Now, what about people who consider themselves to be introverted and don’t like reaching out to people, either through email or through face-to-face interactions?  What advice do you have for them as far as building relationships and networking?  Well, I definitely grew up as an introvert and only child and I – so for me – what's worked for me is just forcing myself to do it and now I speak a lot and I go to lots of events.  And so I think it is one of things that you practice.  And still, it does take energy.  

It’s not – it doesn’t feel as natural, but you definitely get a lot better and more comfortable so I think it’s just worth expanding your comfort zone as soon as you can in life so that you have just so many more options, where if you're always resisting it then you're just – you’ve limited yourself.

John Corcoran:	Right.  Now, I know you're a big advocate of taking a giving approach to life.  You and I are both fans of Adam Grant, author of Give and Take, which is an excellent book.  And I know that you're a big advocate of doing that.  In fact, your LinkedIn profile – the first line of your bio area just says how can I help and then you have your email address there, which is I think testimonial to how giving you are.  

But a lot of times people fear giving to other people and getting taking advantage of because they're giving to people who don’t reciprocate or they don’t see the value of just giving in a limitless way to everyone that they run into.  So share a few of your thoughts on why a giving approach is the preferable one in today’s day and age.

Michael Simmons:	Well, two things.  I think one is there's really scalable ways to give so I look at content as I’m really spending a lot of time on each article – taking my best knowledge and interviewing people then condensing that into a way that’s valuable.  I do that one time and over the past year-and-a-half it’s been seen by getting close to two million people.  So – granted, a lot of those were probably skimming, but I think that’s – there's a scalable way to do it that way.  

But I just think, one, I do it in a way – I like being like that, but if someone I sense is a taker – using the Adam Grant terminology – I just will stop communicating – or purely just wants to market their business and uses my knowledge, but if somebody sincerely wants help I find I can help them very quickly, either a quick response to an email or even a ten minute conversation while I’m going to pick up Halle or Jayden from school.  

So I’m already driving to school and I probably would just be listening to a podcast anyway so I enjoy having those conversations and – especially writing on the – being a writer you want to be as connected as possible to what challenges people are having.  So the other added benefit from my perspective is I can, kind of, see what peoples’ real challenges are and that – often times that sparks new ideas for articles.  And I notice that a lot of the people that I’ve helped continue the relationship through Twitter and they read articles and share them with other people as well.

John Corcoran:	Right.

Michael Simmons:	So it’s, kind of, I – one of the people I interviewed was Gary Vaynerchuk and the article was how Gary Vaynerchuk scales the unscalable and I think there is a really powerful to scale that one-on-one instead of having – thinking about only – have a million fans – thinking about I’m going to really reach a few hundred people or a thousand people and those a thousand people, if they're true fans, could really change the trajectory of your career.

John Corcoran:	It is a real struggle for someone like that because – I remember looking a couple of years ago and a lot of Gary Vaynerchuk’s responses on social media would be one-to-one responses on social media.  Of course everyone can read them, but one-to-one responses to questions that people had.  And he was constantly helping people out so how does someone like that, as they achieve greater success – how do they manage to continue serving so many people without going crazy?

Michael Simmons:	Well, first when you communicate through Twitter it really – it’s under 40 characters so you can respond really, really quickly and you just got to put the time.  I found that doing these – I do these ten or 15-minute calls when I’m – so doing – scheduling them for times when you're commuting to and from work – that alone is – I don't know how many week days there are in a year, but that’s a lot of calls and relationships you could build.  

John Corcoran:	Right.  Yeah, absolutely.  So that’s what he does then?

Michael Simmons:	I don’t – so how does he do it?

John Corcoran:	Yeah.

Michael Simmons:	I think he – one of his big tools is Twitter.  He has his – he’s –   has – 

[Crosstalk]

John Corcoran:	He has a new podcast now, too.

Michael Simmons:	Yeah, and a YouTube show that – he’s really active in the comments there so I think when you're in comments and Twitter you're not only responding to that one person.  You could do it very quickly, but everyone else in that thread is seeing the conversation so that’s a more scalable way and so he’s using content to scale himself.  But he has done – you hear stories about him.  

I’ve seen him do a Tweet when he’s speaking somewhere and he says hey, I’m going to be at this restaurant for the next half hour if anybody wants to stop by for a question or he’s talked about being on a cab ride and just tweeting if you want talk right now.  So – but it’s much harder for him given where he is, but the average person listening to podcasts has – can find the time and it’s not going to be deluge with people.

John Corcoran:	And I think that the lesson is – that someone can take away from that is that if even if you're not Gary Vaynerchuk, but if you are becoming an expert in whatever area you're becoming an expert of – to try and use some of the digital tools that are available to you to share your expertise and to scale it.  And even – you can even do it in a simple way like posting to your Facebook page a little tip or a little piece of advice that relates to your particular area of expertise and you're sharing it with – instead of one-to-one you're sharing it with dozens or hundreds of friends, colleagues, neighbors, all that, sort of, thing.

Michael Simmons:	Yeah, exactly.  And – yeah, I’ve taken an approach to – so I started writing for Forbes about 18 months ago and I’ve written for Harvard Business Review, Ink, Business Entrepreneur, Business Insider, and Huffington Post.  And the average article I’ve written has been seen by over 30,000 people and I’ve taken an approach of – there's so much content out there that it’s hard for people to make the time to read.  But – and a lot of the content is not very helpful so by putting the extra time to create something really valuable I think you can really go a lot farther.  I think quality is really rewarded.  

If you're on Google results the value of being No. 1 or two is exponential.  I find that content is almost like a venture capital portfolio.  Often times one or two articles out of ten can really account for all the traffic so I – I’ve been focusing on quality.  Even if you just put in the extra time and research people will notice.

John Corcoran:	Yeah, I think you and I do, kind of, the same thing.  When it comes to Art of Manliness articles where I try and – almost every one is over 2,000 words I think – usually 3,000 words.  And it really does stand out and people appreciate it.  You get so much more great feedback from people when you put a lot of effort into something, when you do interviews for an article, when you cite scholarly research or you quote from a book that is a definitive book – and then people go out and they read that book because you quoted from it.

Michael Simmons:	Yeah, 100 percent.

John Corcoran:	Yeah.  Now, tell me a little bit about habits because you’ve written more about habits and using habits in order to transform your network, grow your network.  What are some good habits that people can engage in if they do want to build better relationships and grow their network?

Michael Simmons:	I think a few habits to consider – one is making one introduction per day.  One introduction can really change someone’s life, whether it’s meeting a new business partner, new client, just a friend.  So I think that’s powerful and one introduction – you help two people.  A great tool I use for that is called contactually and I know, John, you're a huge fan of contactually as well – and they have an introduction tool.  And a great book is called The Power Habit and it talks about habits and how to form them and they specifically type – talk about a, type of, habit called a keystone habit.  

That’s something where you do this one habit and then it leads to lots of other habits.  So exercise is a great example.  People who tend to start an exercise habit start to eat better and start to just lead a healthier lifestyle, maybe get – quit smoking.  So I think introduction is a really keystone habit for relationship building because what happens is you're – the next question once you start the habit is who am I going to introduce?  

And you really have to get in the habit of asking people how you can help and thinking about – as you go about your day who can I make this introduction – and just getting in that mindset is right away going to be have you getting in touch with people more often and be more proactive that way.  

John Corcoran:	You mentioned letting people know ways in which you can help and I think that you’ve written about this at some point – about being specific with people because so often you’ll hear from someone – someone will say let me know how I can help or let me know what I can do for you.  And it’s such a broad comment.  It’s almost like have a good day.  It’s just, kind of, what people say and there isn’t any meat behind it versus actually giving a specific way that you’d like to help people and that you could help them if they’d like it.  Is that – I think that’s something you’ve written about.

Michael Simmons:	Yeah, yeah.  I – it had Dale Carnegie in the title as well.  But basically, it’s a way of having – if you're talking to someone – a person from there – I talked about in the article is Michael Ellsberg.  I forget the name of the way he talks of it, but let’s say you're – 

[Crosstalk]

John Corcoran:	– of millionaires I think is the name of his book, right?

Michael Simmons:	Yeah.

John Corcoran:	Yeah.

Michael Simmons:	And he talks about if you're in a room of people and there's this person that you really want to talk to, but you only have 30 seconds.  How do you go about it?  And so his strategy was really knowing your strengths and playing towards that, answering questions about that.  So his strength is book and he knows going into any conversation, especially with very successful people – everyone wants to write a book, but many of them don’t so he asks hey, have you ever written a book?  And they say no and he’s like well, why not?  And then he right away – he says you should really write a book.  I’ve written one.  I can introduce you to so and so.  

So right away he guided the conversation to his strengths and now that 30-second conversation – there's a follow-up there where he can really add value to that person’s life.  So his expertise just happened to be books, but it – you have to think about what is the expertise area where you're really strong and you can really add that same amount of value over an over?  For myself, I’ve written a lot of articles in different publications and a lot of entrepreneurs and experts just in general want to start writing so I’m – I can always guide conversations in that way and immediately add value to people.

John Corcoran:	And you mentioned that with Ellsberg it was guiding people to his strength, but a good point behind that, though, is that it was also something that the person he’s talking to is interested in so it’s not like he’s passionate about the Philadelphia Eagles and so he guided them over to – let’s see how we can talk about the Eagles or let’s see if we can talk about my favorite show, Lost, or something like that, right?

Michael Simmons:	Right.  Yeah, and a lot of times if you see someone you want to ask them about their passion.  Let’s say you're meeting a – this is going to the extreme, but a movie actor and you want to ask them about the show they're in.  They’ve – that’s what they always talk about and right away they know so much more about it than you.  You think you're asking a unique question, but they get asked the same question other times.  

So – and it’s just – this is just a tactic and a way of thinking, but I think – I always feel weird off – talking about it also because underlying this is being authentic and treating people as a human as well so if you have that as a basis then I think these tactics really work, but if you're just thinking about transactionally I think people can really sniff that out and almost feel like you're just trying to help them so you get something from them right away rather than that you actually want to build a relationship with them.

John Corcoran:	Sure, yeah.  And actually, I’ve given similar advice.  I give the example of talking to Donald Trump.  If I were to talk to Donald Trump the last thing I’d want to talk with him about is real estate because I’d have nothing to contribute or very little to contribute compared to his deep level of knowledge and I would just be a bump on the log in that conversation versus if you can steer the conversation to something where you're a little bit more on equal footing or it’s a passion that they don’t get asked about frequently then they might be a lot more engaged in the conversation rather than being stuck answering the same questions over and over.  Do you agree with that?

Michael Simmons:	Yeah, 100 percent.  And actually, there was – can I share something else with you that’s related, but unrelated?

John Corcoran:	Yeah.

Michael Simmons:	It’s something that adds a deeper level in relationships that I don’t think is talked about a lot, but is pretty profound.  So for my writing I’ve interviewed a fair number of the top people in the world in network science.  So this is a field where people study networks – so most people think about relationship building as specific tactical like we’re talking about it where a huge impact is just the structure of your network has just as much of an effect and maybe even a larger effect on this so it’s important to think about how you structure your network and there's a few key principles.  

So one is you want to have strong and weak ties.  So people that you're really close to are people that you can get private information about that things normally wouldn’t – people wouldn’t admit publically that you can really just build a closer relationship where – that’s based on trust and you can get things done and they’ll give more.  But having weak ties is just as important for – I think adds a lot of richness to life because you're bringing in new perspectives.  The people that you're close to are probably the people that are most like you.  And then the second principle you should constantly be thinking about is brokerage and closure.  

So most – so closure is – if you picture a cluster of people – is that you're constantly meeting new people in that network.  So if you're a lawyer you're constantly meeting lots of lawyers and that’s going to closure – so – and then brokerage is if you're in another field and so you're connecting two different – you're connecting lawyers to media or media to accountants.  And so a professor named Ron Burt did a study.  He found that one variable accounted for 66 percent of peoples’ success across eight different populations.  And that’s just – if they have a more open network they're more likely to be successful.  

So that’s if they had a more open network where people didn’t know each other already.  There's just a higher chance of being successful.  Most people are actually focused on just meeting people in their industry and so that makes it so that you can't really bring in new knowledge or new contacts, No. 1, and then No. 2, if all you know is just your industry you're going to be an echo chamber because basically you have all the same people repeating the same things, but slightly differently.  

So you think you're reading and getting a lot of different perspectives, but really it’s one source of information just getting bounced around your network.  And there's research that shows that the more you hear the same thing over and over the more extreme you get and the more strongly you hold onto those beliefs so you can get into a dangerous place where you're just not – that can really hinder your career success.  And a lot of your ability to give is based on having access to unique knowledge or unique people.

John Corcoran:	That’s – this is such excellent advice, Michael.  I really appreciate it.  You have an article.  I think it’s your open relationship building – the 15-minute habit that transforms your network.  Is that one of the articles where you wrote about the network science and having an open network?

Michael Simmons:	The – that’s one.  That – another one was how you can be more successful by being unfocused and I interviewed Scott Page.  He’s one of the top – world’s top researchers on complexity and diversity insistence.  And he gave a great example – was – which was imagine you're buying a house and you wanted to get an opinion on whether that house is valuable.  You could – one approach would be you could go into five different realtors and you get slightly different opinions.  

Another approach would be going through a realtor, maybe going to a handyman, having the handyman walk through the house, talking to somebody who works in local politics who can give you local area, and talking to a neighbor.  If you take the first approach you're not really getting five different opinions.  You're really getting five slightly different perspectives, but if you get – if you talk – take the second approach you're going to have a much more diverse perspective and deeper perspective on the value of the property.

John Corcoran:	That’s such powerful advice.  Now, if you're listening to this and you're thinking okay, well, how do I get started with growing a larger network if I’m a lawyer, or an accountant, or a coach, or a consultant, or whatever and you're maybe fearful that – okay.  I think he’s right.  I do just have a network of connections just within my industry.  Where should they start?  Should they go out to different events, join different groups, organizations, go do different conferences?  How can they grow that larger open network?

Michael Simmons:	So I have a really interesting answer to this and it’s actually pretty recent.  I interviewed Ryan Uzi, who’s director of networks.  He’s a network scientist at Northwestern University and so he’s done a lot of research that – and really well cited in the field.  He basically found there's actually a risk of being too strategic.  So that’s – actually could be a bad thing.  If you're identifying people – I want to meet with – okay.  I – these qualities are important to me, these skills.  I want to meet with just those people and then I’m going to meet them through people I already know.  That’s a way you’re networking – you're very constricted.  

So an answer to your question – what he has found through is research about how to build a more diverse and stronger network is shared experiences.  So actually, I’m just curious – this is the first time I’ve done it.  When you think about some of your closest relationships, John, even professionally or with your wife where did you meet them?

John Corcoran:	Yeah, often times it’s – in terms of experiences you mean?

Michael Simmons:	Or just curiosity – where did – it could be experience or it could be any – 

John Corcoran:	Yeah.  I – I’m thinking of good friends from high school, not so much from college, but I’ve got a few good friends that I’ve met through different – attending a conference.  My wife I met – we actually worked together briefly – so different places.

Michael Simmons:	So basically, he found that shared experiences – and there's – but not all events are the same so you could go to events where you don’t meet anybody and you don’t feel close to anybody, but the, type of, shared experiences are – one is interdependence where there's this feeling that you're in something together and that other – you need the other person to be successful.  So I think I met – I think about it where I met my wife during orientation freshman year where you're coming to college by myself to a whole new city and we each are – and you're, kind of, in this mindset of you want to meet people and you need people to start building a network.  

And so we met the second day there.  So another aspect is some, sort of, competition.  So that's why sports are really powerful.  He did a study where he found that he interviewed – or surveyed his whole MBA class and found that people built relationships through their sports in college more than they did through their classes, for example.  And then the final is just based on passion so you're doing shared experiences that are based on peoples’ passions.

John Corcoran:	Yeah, I can see that – like a hobby or something that you're really interested in, or a sports team that you're crazy about, or a – golf, or basketball, or something that you're – you really enjoy spending time with.

Michael Simmons:	Yeah, and you think about those, type of, events.  Those bring together a diverse group of people and you think about – even a famous relationship is Bill Gates and Warren Buffet where they’ve just become incredibly close and Warren Buffet has donated 40 – over $40 billion to Gates’ foundation.  Their relationship didn’t start over a business deal.  It game over a shared passion of playing bridge.  So that’s just something to think about because I think most people don’t think that way about building relationships.

John Corcoran:	And I think – I want to say that they met at – I forget the name of it now.  There's a conference that occurs every year that Katharine Graham either used to organize or used to just be a big attendee at.  I read the Warren Buffet biography a while back and I think I remember that that was how they had originally met at a conference or a – an annual event.  Maybe someone who is listening to this will remember.

Michael Simmons:	Yeah.  Yeah, and that’s a really powerful – and I think it’s really important to look for organizers who do – who organize events in that way – so organize them where they're curating the people very closely.  It’s either invite only, application based, or they're very clear that – okay.  Here’s who it’s for and who it isn’t.  And then another part is they're curating so that people can connect and have that shared experience versus just hey, we’re going to throw people together and get speakers.

John Corcoran:	Yeah, right.  Well, Michael, thank you so much for taking the time to talk to me.  I really appreciate it.  And so one final question that I ask everyone is tell us a little bit about some of the specific relationships that have helped you in your career so far.  So that could be mentors, friends, business associates, business partners, other, sorts of, relationships that have helped you to get where you are today.

Michael Simmons:	Well, I would say one is Steve Mariotti, the founder of the Network For Teaching Entrepreneurship.  He really – I think of mentors and then above mentors I think of champions, people who really go to bat for you at every level.  And he basically – when I was in college and after college brought me with him to speak at different conferences and basically opened his rolodex and said anybody I know – you draft the introduction email and I’ll gladly introduce you to them and he would just tell me – tell us how – be honest about the entrepreneurial journey and they’ve built a world class non-profit organization.  

So if you can go a level beyond with a mentor, have a champion, I think that really – kind of, relationship is invaluable.  And another relationship that – two relationships that have been really important to me are my friends Doug Faith and Jason Duff, both successful, young entrepreneurs.  And we’ve been doing a mastermind call for about seven years every Sunday at 5:00 p.m.

John Corcoran:	Oh, wow.

Michael Simmons:	And those calls have just been a really, really important part of my life.

John Corcoran:	Oh, great.  Okay.  And I found the name of it – it’s the Allen and Company Sun Valley Conference.  I’m pretty sure that’s where Bill Gates and Warren Buffet met for the first time, but maybe someone else will remember if it somewhere else.  So – 

Michael Simmons:	Awesome.

John Corcoran:	Yeah.  Well, thank you so much, Michael, and look forward to reading more of your stuff in Forbes and Entrepreneur and elsewhere.

Michael Simmons:	Well, thank you very much for having me on, John.  And if there's any way I can be – ever be helpful to someone – anyone in the audience I’m happy to be.  Check out my articles or you can email me at michael@iimpact.com.

John Corcoran:	Excellent.  Actually, finally, where can people check out more information other than Forbes?  Is iimpact.com – is that the best place to go or michaeldsimmons.com?

Michael Simmons:	Yeah, michaeld – as in Daniel Simmons – dot com is – you can see a lot of links to my different writings and my background.

John Corcoran:	Okay.  And simmons.com/newsletter and sign up for the newsletter, right?

Michael Simmons:	Yeah, michaeldsimmons.com/newsletter.

John Corcoran:	That’s right.  Good.  All right.  Thanks, Michael.

Michael Simmons:	Thanks, John.

John Corcoran:	All right.  Let me stop the recording here.

Transcribed by GMR Transcription

The post 076: Michael Simmons | How to Connect and Build Your Network appeared first on Smart Business Revolution.

075: Keith Krance | How to Build Relationships using Facebook
48:25
2017-09-21 04:57:47 UTC 48:25
075: Keith Krance | How to Build Relationships using Facebook

rsz_smart_business_revolution_podcast_artwork_redThis is the podcast where we show you how to develop relationships that matter, with people who matter, in a digital world.

Without question, one of the biggest tools for developing relationships today is Facebook.

But it’s not just about flipping through your vacation pictures and posting things on your wall.

It’s also a huge platform for small businesses to advertise on.

My guest on this episode is an expert in Facebook advertising and the author with Perry Marshall of a new book called the Ultimate Guide to Facebook Advertising (referral link).

Krance tells us how investing $2,500 in a weekend conference when he had no idea where the next month’s rent money was going to come from was the best thing he has done in his business.

Keith KranceHe also tells us:

  • How to approach conferences you attend and use them to develop key relationships to grow your business
  • Why people who say you always have to charge premium prices are WRONG and why you should work for free, especially when you are getting started
  • why you should be making introductions, how he does it, and how introductions have transformed his business

Enjoy!

Resources from this Episode:

Right Click here to download the MP3
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Transcript of Interview:


Intro...

John Corcoran:  	It is Dominate Web Media, right?

Keith Krance:  	Yup.  

John Corcoran:  	Okay.  All right, welcome everyone.  I am speaking with Keith Krance, who is the founder of Dominate Web Media.  He's also the author of a new book on Facebook advertising.  We're gonna be talking about that but Keith, why don't you start off with – sorry, hold on for a second.  Let me start over again.  

Keith Krance:  	Yep, no problem.

John Corcoran:  	Three, two, one.  All right, I'm speaking with Keith Krance who is the founder of Dominate Web Media.  He's also the author of a new book on Facebook advertising.  We're gonna talk all about Facebook advertising and a number of different key relationships that have contributed to his business but Keith, why don't you just start off with this book that you co-authored with a guy by the name of Perry Marshall?  Now there's gonna be a lot of people who've heard that name before and a lot of people who haven't but just start off with telling us who Perry Marshall is, why he's significant and why it's interesting that you're the co-author of a book with a guy named Perry Marshall who has been quite successful in his particular industry?

Keith Krance:  	Sure, no problem and yeah, thanks for having me on. I appreciate it and so basically, we've got this book that just came out and it's in Barnes and Noble bookstores all over the world.  It's mass produced published by entrepreneur press which is entrepreneur magazine so it led to tons of articles and a bunch more coming out over the next couple of months and the reason why is because Perry already has a relationship with Entrepreneur Press because he's also the author of 80-20 Sales on Marketing and I think four editions of Ultimate Guide to Google Ad Words.  

So basically, Perry's claim to fame was kind of originally being the godfather of Google Ad Words.  So back in 2003 when it first came out, he was teaching it and so he was one of the pioneers and so he built a large audience of business owners, e-commerce owners, local business owners, digital marketers people over the years who really came to trust him because he's always one of the good guys, very trustworthy and very good information.  

So long story short, I went to, I came into the digital marketing world probably in late 2009, 2010.  I started digging in.  I was transitioning from owning some local businesses.  I used to own a couple different locations with a couple different franchises so four different locations, two different franchises for a few years back in the Seattle area.  Prior to that, I was actually an airline pilot for six years.  I've got about 4,000 hours for Horizon Air which is part of Alaska Airlines but my entrepreneurial spirit started kicking in so as I transition into the online marketing space, it was tough. 

I was basically just a consultant and trying to do things like search engine optimization and stuff like that then I kind of fell into this Facebook advertising thing.  I was like wow, this is crazy how fast you can reach people because we did traditional marketing.  We were doing billboard stuff, coops with a little bit of radio, a lot of like direct mail Valpak stuff for my Bilco businesses and I looked at the Facebook ads and I'm like I can spend $0.50 and I can get my message in front of my exact ideal audience and I only pay when they click on it.  I'm like this is crazy.

So I kind of went all in and what I did was I started learning it and I started creating some YouTube videos trying to build my personal brand and then I ended up writing my own self-published book called The Complete Guide to Facebook Advertising.  So this was not co-authored with anybody.  It's my own book.  It's 120 pages.  I actually had a few pages transcribed.  I did, anyways I did it more just to build authority, okay?  Not to make a bunch of money on the book.  I didn't have any influence, anything like that. 

Next thing you know, six months later something like that, this was a Kindle Analyst printed so I did the Amazon thing where they print it for you, print on demand and Perry Marshall had a live event and it was called a consulting accelerator program.  It was $2,500.00 and at the time I couldn't afford $2,500.00 but he had a five-pay plan so it's $500.00 a month.  

So I went.  It was in Chicago and I brought my book.  While I'm there, Perry like the second day, he brings up a guy by the name of Bill Harrison who is partners with Jack Canfield in one of his products who's the author of Chicken Soup for the Soul, the no. 1 bestselling non-fiction book of all time, success principles and stuff and they run a program together and stuff, his brother Steve Harrison and they and they do publicity training for people and stuff in their author space. 

So Perry brought Bill who's one of his friends up and said hey, he's looking for a Facebook ads expert, a media buyer and something else, Ad Words maybe, I don't know and he had like these almost like applications.  He had a stack of them and there's a bunch of people like 200 people that are all consultants.  It was a great event.  Long story short, I was interested so I grabbed one.  I filled out and then at that night, I waited for everybody else to do it.  The next morning I went up to Bill and I gave him my application kind of and then my book.  

John Corcoran:  	Nice.

Keith Krance:  	I said here's my book I wrote on it and this is back in like 2010 so he later on that day, a few hours later, he goes hey, what are you doing?  Wanna go out for dinner?  So he takes me to dinner and he's like you know, you're the only one that wrote a book on it.  So blah, blah, blah and then of course we hit it off.  

We hit it off because I was nice to him and stuff and long story short, he turns into a client then that one relationship right there, that day, writing that book, meeting that person has built my entire, that's what I, I tell Bill this all the time, everything that's happened, I'm now a co-author with Perry Marshall, I've got stuff going with Mine Valley.  I've got speaking gigs all over the place.  We've got clients that now pay us $5,000.00 a month for management and sometimes more than that for consulting.  It's just crazy.  Everything has happened because of one relationship.  

Basically he turned into a client then I started doing stuff for him and then he went to a mastermind that he was a part of which some other higher level kind of internet marketers and he was telling them about this Facebook ads guy that's helping him and he's cut his costs per lead by like 50 percent or something like that.  Then I get an email a while back from Perry's kind of director of marketing and his name's Jack Bourne and Jack emails me and he goes hey, I heard you're doing Facebook ads for Bill Harrison and long story short, I start doing Facebook ads for Perry Marshall, by the way he's the godfather of Google Ad Words, right?

So I'm starting to do some stuff a little bit for them and I basically do it for free for a few months and then Perry doesn't even know what's going on because Jack just kind of tells Perry he's gonna do it, he okays it but he's kind of out of the loop and so then we start doing things then Perry start seeing the numbers coming in.  He's like holy crap and then that lead to, we did a program together so we did a course, a $1,000.00 course business owners could buy about a year and a half ago and we sold a lot of them to his audience and to his few other audiences but mostly his audience.

Then next thing you know, that lead him asking me to co-author this book with him published by Entrepreneur magazine and we did another program together and then really just from that has stemmed all this other stuff.  Bill Harrison, he's still our client.  He still recommends me to people.  Because of him, because of Perry, that's land all these other things and it's just like this whole tidal wave and snowball effect.  One relationship can basically change your life big time.

John Corcoran:  	Wow, that's an amazing story and that $2,500.00 that you had invested, what did it feel like early on when you're committing to spend $2,500.00 and fly yourself out to Chicago for a weekend? 

Keith Krance:  	It felt like I didn't know if my second payment was gonna go through.  That's exactly where it was.  I didn't know actually.  I thought maybe I might, you know, the second or third payment was maybe not gonna go through so it was, you didn't even know how close, this was the time where I lost everything.  I had businesses.  I had a $60,000.00 car, living on the lake, had these businesses and then a lot of stuff happened in a short period of time, partly due to the economy but mostly due to the banks drying up and some crazy stuff, cash flow and I now was losing about $50,000.00 a month with my businesses.  They were actually profiting on paper on an annual basis about a year before that, okay? 

John Corcoran:  	So you're talking 2009, 2010.

Keith Krance:  	Yeah, 2008, 2009 or so exactly.  While that was happening, I was learning everything I could about internet marketing while kind of things were going just crazy south and I was like it was tough, it was not fun and at the same time I had a one-year-old baby boy so while my life was falling apart, I would like get up at 4:30, work for two hours and I ended up getting a job.  I thought I was gonna be a client and that client ended up wanting me to work for them so I worked for an 8:00 to 5:00 job for about six months and actually I was actually working that job when I went to this consulting accelerator program.

It was the fourth months in, came back from that, got the thing with Bill and that ended up something else.  Two months after that, I quit that.  A year later, it's just like it's history, you know, it's been two years now since I have that job for six months but that was just, it was not fun.  I was used to seeing him a lot more and not going from seeing him all the time to leaving at 7:15 and get home at 6:00 but you know, I worked at nights.  I worked in the morning.  I would go take a 10-minute nap at lunch so I wouldn't be tired. 

Because I followed, I'm a learner, you know, I followed people that were successful so I knew that there's always a better way because other people were doing it.  So, I just kind of never gave up but that one weekend, I'm dead serious, I was, I mean because you know, the money didn't start coming in for a little while after that and I pretty much lost everything.  I had to go into this little tiny house and it was brutal but I just never gave up and then that relationship stemmed other relationships and then we did a program together like I said and I got a percentage of that and it did super well and it's now we work with tons of people that are big names in the industry and it's just – 

John Corcoran:  	Amazing how it turned it around.  So let me ask you because a lot of people struggle with friends and family kind of question what they're doing, especially when they're making a shift like you shifted from being a pilot to running your own businesses and then from that to doing Facebook advertising that you're doing now.  So did you have friends and family and people around you that question what you're doing?

Keith Krance:  	You don't even know.  I could go on and on right now.  If I had a dollar for every time my dad, my mom, my son's mom told me that I was, I need to go get a regular job, I'm crazy, what are you doing, this is pie in the sky, I'm dead serious, it was so long and as things started to happen good, they still didn't believe me because it didn't really make sense to them.  They didn't understand you could actually make money selling people information and teaching people.  It's just hard for people to realize that is out there, that you can do that.  That was the no. 1 drawback and one of the reasons why it took me a long time to actually, it didn't take me that long but I took that regular job.

My parents, when I took that regular job with that normal company, they were so happy because they're like oh my gosh, it's security.  The older generation's all about security.  The problem is a lot of them don't really truly have security but for me it's way more than about that.  It's being able to teach your kids to be able to do something that they actually wanna do when they grow up and find something that kind of drives them and kind of inspires them. 

So it's, my goal isn't to be a millionaire.  If you would've asked me three years ago, my goal would've been to be financially free and be able to do whatever I wanted with my time and those type of things.  I kind of got over the buying nice cars and stuff two, three years ago, too but if you ask me today, it's even more than that.  It's deeper than that.  It's more about doing stuff that's meaning – working with clients that are actually making a difference, making an impact and those types of things so trying to really relay that stuff down to my son.  

It's tough because everybody around you is not really, a lot of people don't know what they don't know and so it's tough.

John Corcoran:  	The thing I say about having a job versus working for yourself is if you have a job, you work for one person.  That boss could wake up on the wrong side of the bed in the morning, walk in and just terminate you, just decide well, I don't want this person working for me anymore.  I've seen it happen to people.  They just have a normal day.  They could've worked.  They get fired.  They come home.  It happened to me as a kid with my father got laid off a couple of times when I was younger and it seems quite arbitrary.

When you're working for yourself, one client might fire you but you still have other clients.

Keith Krance:  	Yeah, exactly and if you're working a regular job right now and your goal is to get out and do your own thing, it doesn't mean that if you've got something that you're, you need to quit your job right away.  Michael Masterson, who's the author of Ready, Fire, Aim, one of my favorite books, favorite guys to follow, he actually has like a 14-hour audio.  It's awesome.  It just came out on Audible but some of the recordings in there from a few years ago from some of the guys that he has on there, a lot of its new and he's worth about, I don't even know what he's worth, $400, $500 million?  

But he's so grounded, I recommend to everybody and it's called Seven Years to Seven Figures but it's not about getting rich quick at all.  It's about getting the right areas whether it's a business.  If you are gonna go into business, try to learn this information marketing and in ways in the real estate market but more importantly if he talks about that, too.  If you have a regular job, don't go out and quit right away.  Try to figure out using your skills you're using right now or maybe do something on the side until you are confident to be able to walk away so you're not like putting yourself at stress too much but there's a fine line there.

John Corcoran:  	I think that's good advice.  One thing I often just say to people is also to work within the field that you wanna go into so if you want to, for example if you want to become the Facebook advertising expert then don't go work as a barista.  Go work for someone else who's doing Facebook advertising so you can learn from them and so that you can start to cultivate relationships with clients who then might come with you when you go and start your own business.

Keith Krance:  	That's what he did, Michael Masterson, that's exactly how he got started.  He basically found the guy to mentor him and worked for him for free when he was younger.  It was somebody like Jay Abraham or somebody famous like that and Ralph, the guy that's now my managing partner, same thing, he came to me and he said let me take one of your clients on because you're super, I got super busy.  Once we did this first course with Perry Marshall, things were crazy and clients were, everybody was wanting hey, can I hire you kind of thing. 

So he built a relationship with me.  He came to my three-day workshop.  He built a relationship.  He took on one client where he got a percentage of it and that's morphed into this great relationship.  Now we trust each other.  We get along and now he's moving in more as a higher majority partner.  It's all because of you slowly built a relationship.  With Perry, same thing, Jack reached out to me.  However, I basically was doing stuff for free for him.  

I wasn't worried about the money upfront because I knew that if I could make a difference or make an impact with him, his reach is just, it's infinite so that's one thing that a lot of people will teach people that are consultants and stuff like that to charge what you're worth, don't undercharge but I disagree if you're just starting out and you build your client base or if somebody has influence, there's no faster way to make a change than to go and help somebody else that has a big influence.

John Corcoran:  	I definitely agree.  My career started from a free internship as well so I agree.  So tell me though, I know that there are others as well that you've done this for where you've worked for free doing managing Facebook ads.  Tell me about some of the other stories.

Keith Krance:  	Another one, yeah, actually John Lee Dumas who's got massive podcast following entrepreneur on fire, yeah, so I can't even remember how he connected.  Oh, I know, he interviewed me on his podcast and then he said reach out, you know, and we can help each other vice versa whatever after we got done and so I think I reached out to him after that and he's like yeah, I wanna be running Facebook ads for these webinars I'm doing for Podcasters' Paradise and I said hey, I'll help you out and there's a way that we can exchange a value and he was thinking the same thing so I basically, my podcast hasn't launched yet and it still hasn't yet and I knew that down the road, it would be a great relationship to cultivate so basically helped him spend a ton of time when I was super

I didn't have a full team back then, help him get his first ad setup, first campaign, did it on their account so they could be running their own down the road and it was getting super good all right, right off the bat of course because if you're running webinars are people that already know you and even some of the cold traffic was getting ROI, too, so it helped him get that started so they had a blueprint in their account to kind of emulate and take from there.  

So that was huge.  So now since then, he's helping me out, whenever I reach out to him, it's instantly emails and back.  He gave me an awesome quote for my book. It's at the top of the list and basically said when I'm ready to launch my podcast, let him know and he'll help me promote it.

John Corcoran:  	Cool and then another thing that we mentioned before talking before this call about the power of going to conferences and events and meeting people, I know you went to New Media Expo a couple of years ago, maybe a year ago, made some friends there so talk about the people you met there and how you nurtured those relationships.

Keith Krance:  	Well, I met somebody who is really good at doing this so I went to the New Media Expo by myself just to go, I didn't really go, I went there to learn but more to build relationships because my, I was starting to get a name in the direct response industry but I didn't really know anybody in that whole world of social media, Pat Flynn, all those people, and I met Jamie Tardy who has a podcast called the eventual millionaire, a great podcast and can't remember how we bumped into each other but we did and then I started telling her I got a book coming out about Facebook ads and stuff and she's like oh, I've got a book coming out blah blah blah.  

So I started giving her all this advice.  She was asking about it so I just gave her tons of great advice for like 20 minutes and then she's like hey, I wanna introduce you to this so and so then she started introducing me to Michael Stelsner, to you know, to Pat Flynn, to everybody.  She took me out.  She took me to this lunch where all like the big names in social media were, got to meet them all then we went out that night.  She took me out, introduced me to everybody and hung out with everybody just because I helped her out and I was nice to her so she wanted to be nice back to me. 

That's Jamie.  That's why she has one of the most popular podcasts because she interviews millionaires but she's a connector.

John Corcoran:  	She's great at that.

Keith Krance:  	She's the connector.  Since then, I was actually gonna do a Facebook post about this yesterday.  I haven't done it yet so probably do it over the weekend.  She's in Austin, Texas.  Since then she's interviewed, she's connected me like two or three times in email with other people, connecting both of us, saying you guys should meet, you guys are both rock stars, whatever and got me a podcast interview about it then she told her audience about my workshop and I'm like I had it on my to-do list, find somebody good to connect Jamie with because I was like she's connecting me to a bunch of people since then and I'm like I have an online to-do list to try to figure out somebody I could connect to her with because it's called reciprocity.  It's one of the six laws of influence.  

So she's done this already.  She just, that's just habit, that's how she is and so I was gonna write this post about it and like I have this online to-do list, this is what happens when you help people.  They go out of their way to help you.  So I'm like trying to figure out how I can help her just because she helped me.  There's no reason why.  I'm not a millionaire yet so I'm not gonna be, I don't need to be on her podcast.  If I am, it's not that big of a deal.  So it's just because this is a reciprocity thing, that's all it is.

John Corcoran:  	Yeah, you know, let's dive into that introduction thing because I know that's something that is tremendously powerful.  A lot of people don't do it but then the people who do make an effort to make introductions see huge returns.  I think I heard James Altecher who's a writer and has his own podcast say that he makes five to 10 introductions per week and since he did that, his business has just taken off tremendously.  I try and hit that goal, about 10 introduction per week and I use tools like Contactually which is a huge fan of which allows you to make introductions really quick.  So tell us about introductions, what your best practices are for them, how you do them, that sort of thing.

Keith Krance:  	Yeah, I know.  That's great.  I think, I'm not sure if I heard that specific one or not but I think I might have because that rings a bell, somebody who's talking about trying to make five to 10 per week and it's hard because it's hard to do.  I'm the same way.  I don't do that as many at all as he does and it's something that it's hard because it's kind of like a lot of people have a hard time amplifying content with Facebook ads because they don't see the immediate ROI. 

So like if you're doing introduction like that, it doesn't come around right away but it comes around down the road in a bigger, bigger way because it's like I just told you my story of trying to figure out what ways that I can reciprocate but typically what I will do is it depends if obviously if it's in a local atmosphere, if you're in a local event or something like that, it's so easy but email is just the best way.  I did this once in a while.  What I'll do is I'll just email somebody and I'll CC the other person and say hey, so and so, you need to meet so and so and then I'll give like a two, one sentence quick reason why he's a rock star, she's a rock star about both of them. 

That's it really.  It's pretty simple and then what happens is typically you might be on a thread like they might reply to all for a little bit like the one person that did the intro beyond that thread for like two, three emails back and forth and then what they'll do is say hey, okay, we can leave him off now and we can continue and try to meet up.  That's just what happens and it goes both directions but then they go out and a lot of times if you connect somebody that they end up working together at some capacity, it can change their life in a lot of ways and I've heard lots of, this happens, obviously it's happened to me, it's happened to lots of other people then that person feels indebted to them for life.  

It's kind of like old movies where what's the movie where – The Count of Monte Cristo.  I read the book and saw the movie a while back but the dude saved his life and he's like a pirate and the main character saved his life somehow so the pirate dude was like indebted to him the rest of his life and followed him around and basically I'm your servant, he said because you saved my life and that's kind of how it is.  You feel indebted especially if it makes a big impact, you know?  

John Corcoran:  	Yeah.

Keith Krance:  	It's kind of funny.

John Corcoran:  	It makes a huge impact.  I've had people start businesses together before, move from one place to another in order to work together or start joint ventures together.  I mean I had an email a couple of weeks back from someone who introduced us to someone else.  He said I probably made $10,000.00 from that introduction that you gave me and I'm gonna make more in the months ahead.  It makes you feel great and you're right but ultimately it turns into helping you as well because if you want to get introduced to other people that can help you to grow your network then you need to start introducing others.  That's the only way you can do it.  You can't sit around on your hands waiting for other people to introduce you. 

So one other thing you mentioned that was an interesting point was you've really invested in coaching programs and mastermind groups or weekend retreats, things like that and then now has paid off for your business as well in terms of relationships that you've developed with other rock stars as you put it.  So tell me a little bit about some of the investments you've made in those stretch of programs.

Keith Krance:  	I was just thinking it's funny because Dove Gordon is who actually connected us two. 

John Corcoran:  	Of course, yeah, that's right.

Keith Krance:  	He connected us two and so like now, it hasn't happened yet because we just got connected but now whatever happens after this, we build this relationship and something down the road we'll probably happen.  I'll get business from this podcast.  I might interview you down the road and it's like he recommended a few people on that list and you were one of them and he's a connector, too.  Now he's got this like whole great mastermind, always high level of people because he's a connector so it's just gonna continue paying off for him.  

John Corcoran:  	At some point I need to piece together like you know, multiple introductions coming back in multiple ways because I know you can do them.  There are people who have.  Jason Gainer who's a friend, you might know him, he's got a conference called Mastermind Talks.  I'll bet, I interviewed him on this podcast so he probably has a way of piecing that together but anyways, I interrupted you, go ahead.  

Keith Krance:  	Yeah, don't worry.  So one of the best and fastest ways to build your network and take things to the next level is join like a high level mastermind of somebody that's already connected.  It's kind of like buying your way into the inner circle or if you're like an offline business or something like that, maybe it's a, I don't know, a doctor or a lawyer trying to get in with something like that that has connections and has all these other connections with the type of business that you're in.  

I don't know if you can buy a consultation with them or something like that but for me that's –

John Corcoran:  	That's a great one, yeah, absolutely like just buying consultation.

Keith Krance:  	Yeah, if you wanna get in front of them, these guys, especially those types of people, like both online and offline, when like a doctor or an accident attorney or something like that, they're getting pitched all day long and if you don't have, even if you have something of value, it's just gonna probably just go you know, slip through the cracks so you wanna get in front of them, pay for something that they have, you're gonna get an – it's just how it works so I mean and so like for me, we just joined another high end mastermind which I'm super excited about last week that I know it's gonna connect us to just tons of super successful people because it's a super high level mastermind.  

But another one I joined about a year ago was James Shramecoast, superfastbusiness.com and he's actually in Sydney, Australia but he lives in Manally but he's got a great business and he's super connected and I joined his mastermind and next thing you know, three months later I'm speaking at his event.

John Corcoran:  	Wow.  

Keith Krance:  	Then ended up becoming really good friends with him at that event and prior to that because it wasn't cheap.  It's an expensive mastermind but now his friends become my friends and he has me on his podcast to promote to his audience and it's just that has stemmed to tons of stuff.  It's stemmed to some high end clients.  It's stemmed to just lots of stuff and so I know a lot of people that their game has changed.  It went from being average mediocre to they join the high end mastermind with the right group and things just took off.

John Corcoran:  	The key is finding the right group, too.  Have you had other groups that you've joined that haven't been a good fit?

Keith Krance:  	Yeah, I've joined like a coaching, it wasn't really like a mastermind like a whole year but I've bought into like a high level coaching program. The training was good.  The sales, good sales training, that was kind of related to that but as far as the networking from there, it wasn't at all so it was actually kind of – I don't know, I took a lot out of it so for me I don't say it was a waste of money but if you're gonna pay $8,000.00, you'd think you'd get a little bit better service.

So there's stuff out there that people, they're in this mindset of just completely stepping away and know just all about scale and how much money you can make and charge and so that's just not, that's not me so we're trying to roll out a coaching program but it's a lot different where people get a lot of different touch points and stuff.

John Corcoran:  	That's interesting because then you know, whatever you put into your program I'm sure will be influenced from the other coaching programs that you've attended or other coaches that you've befriended, correct?

Keith Krance:  	Yeah, big time.  

John Corcoran:  	Yeah, so that's a good model.  I do wanna ask you a little bit about Facebook advertising particularly for beginners, people who haven't done it before and who are maybe a little intimidated by the process, you can give some basic advice on how to get started but before we move on into that, we've talked a lot about relationships in your career and how they contributed.  Anything we've left out, any last bits that you want to, anecdotes or anything?

Keith Krance:  	Off the top of my head, I don't know if I can think of anything but I can say though is that, and I've said this multiple times to people, I would say that for me, relationships have been the no. 1 thing for me.  Going to events typically is huge.  You can only go to so many events but every single, almost every single event that I've gone to has been a springboard to my business.  It's been again, I feel like there's like five events I've gone to that have been game changing moments of people that I've met there.  

So, go to as many events as you can.  You've got to go to the right ones but –

John Corcoran:  	Yeah and then when you're at those events, how do you know who are those game changing people that you're gonna meet?  Is there a way of knowing?

Keith Krance:  	Yeah, man, good question.  You know, I would say sometimes it's tough to tell but if you can, it's funny what you'll do, who you'll meet when you're just hanging out in the bar at an event or in the hallways, try to spend a lot of times in the hallways meeting people and going to, if there's any kind of a social type of thing, it's the social hours is where the real relationships are built so –

John Corcoran:  	Right, right, okay so let's move on to talking about Facebook as a platform because you're an expert in it and it can be quite intimidating for people, particularly people who haven't advertised in it before so what are some tips you have for people who are interested in exploring Facebook as a platform for advertising? 

Keith Krance:  	Well, yeah –

John Corcoran:  	I realize that is like the broadest question.

Keith Krance:  	Yeah, it is, especially because it really depends on where you're at and what kind of business that you're in.  The one thing I could say is that Facebook, first of all, there are 7.2 billion people on the planet, right?  Peter Diamandas who wrote a great book called Abundance and he's got an awesome talk, Ted Talk, you can look it up, he talks about the rising billion and from 2010, there's 2 billion users online, 2 billion people that are connected to the internet basically out of that 7 billion.  That's gonna go from 2 billion to 5 billion in 2020.

So we're in 2014 now and I looked it up and we're actually at 3 billion users connected to the internet and that's –

John Corcoran:  	So 50 percent increase in the last four years.

Keith Krance:  	Yeah, it's almost right on track to what basically exactly what he predicted so there's 3 billion people online right now and there's 1.3 billion active Facebook users, 1.8 billion users, over 50 percent of the world is on Facebook –

[Crosstalk]

John Corcoran:  	At least half of them are playing Farmville.

Keith Krance:  	Yeah, exactly.  The thing is about Facebook is what they've, what Facebook has passed now which business owners need to realize is Facebook is not trying to be cool.  They're not trying to be the next Snapchat, Instagram, the next fad, social media platform for 16, 17-year-olds.  Honestly, the 16, 17-year-olds aren't even hardly on Facebook but name a 30-year-old and up that isn't on Facebook.  You're gonna have a tough time finding one.  

John Corcoran:  	That's changed a lot because I mean I remember in 2007, I went to Costa Rica and we're, there's a weird story, we're in Costa Rica and we're like in an internet cafe and I noticed the young people like 16, 17-year-olds were coming to the internet cafe with their family and they'd log in not to their email but to their Facebook and check messages and I thought that was so interesting and all the other older people are checking their emails.  

Keith Krance:  	Yep and it's kind of shifting so now it's, think about this, how many people have you or if you're listening to this podcast right now, how many people have you connected to recently that you maybe grew up with or went to school with that you've since moved away from but you've now reconnected with because of Facebook?  

John Corcoran:  	Tons, dozens and dozens, yeah.  I recently went to my high school reunion and a lot of the people was like hey, I know what's going on in your life.

Keith Krance:  	Yeah, exactly and that's how our whole high school reunion, right now I've got mine coming up this summer and that the whole thing is organized via private Facebook group.  So if you're listening to this, how many private Facebook groups are you a member of to stay connected especially if you're a business in a business world but private, personally, too so Facebook's goal is not to be cool or a fad, it's to be like a utility, telephone or electricity and that's really what it's become.  

So people are on there, whether you're on there much or not, 80 to 90 percent of your customers or potential customers are on Facebook sometime throughout the day and so the question is how, can you make the effort to create the right Facebook process, the right sales process that's quote end quote, air quotes right now, saying Facebook appropriate, we would like the Facebook eyes you offer.  The problem is with most businesses, with most clients that we take on, it's not the targeting or the bidding that's the issue.  It's the process.  It's how they're trying to sell on Facebook.

Most people don't realize that Facebook isn't a place to sell.  For example, if you meet somebody at a live event or maybe a networking party or a networking group like B&I or Chamber of Commerce or something like that and you shake their hand and let's say you shake my hand and I say hey, how are you doing, my name's Keith and 30 seconds later I'm trying to pitch you my insurance or something like that, who likes that guy?  What do you wanna do?  You wanna turn him around and –

John Corcoran:  	Strangle him.

Keith Krance:  	Yeah, exactly, nobody likes that guy so nobody likes the guy that tries to pitch to you right at the party.  However, some of the biggest deals, some of the biggest sales ever are made as a result of two people meeting at a party or a coffee shop or an event, right?  So Facebook is the new social, it's the new party online.  It's the, not that people aren't going to the parties anymore but it's the online event party whatever.  So you have to figure out a way to introduce yourself to people, give them value.  So let's say that conversation went a little bit different.  

Let's say we shook hands and instead of me trying to pitch you, we started talking and I asked you a couple questions and I asked you how many kids you had and you said two and said maybe I wasn't in insurance and said maybe I was in finance or something like that.  Maybe I was in life insurance or something.  I don't know and so maybe I said hey, did you know that there's actually a pretty cool thing that you can, there's a way that you can actually get like half your kid's tuition paid for if you start it now, like it's some tax loophole, go check it out at this website. 

Then hey, by the way, so did your kids play any sports?  You just go on and you talk, right?  You gave this guy a cool nugget of great information but you didn't try to sell him anything.  So let's say the party's over and the next day, maybe he goes home and he tells his wife about this great tip that he got and he's excited or whatever but the next day he's driving to work and he sees a billboard and it's a picture of me, the guy that gave him that tip about call this number or go to this website for this free report on five ways to actually be able to retire by the time you're 65 or put your kids through college.

Do you think there's a high likelihood he's gonna go to that website and opt in or maybe call the phone number?

John Corcoran:  	Sure.

Keith Krance:  	Of course, right, because it gave him some value so that's how you have to use Facebook and that's what we do.  Once we figure out what a client does, we figure out how we can provide value, use Facebook's amazing targeting capabilities, we can target people based on things they like, how much money they make, what clothes they buy, what kind of food they buy at the grocery store, how much they fly, what their income level is, what their job title is, who they work for, the targeting is unbelievable.  We can target people that have been to our website and to me, that's one of the most, that's the best ROI on Facebook is taking your existing traffic and then using Facebook to kind of re-engage them and bring them back.  It's called re-targeting and –

John Corcoran:  	Yeah, that's an amazing one when you see an ad on Facebook from something that you, you know, related to a website that you've been on recently.

Keith Krance:  	Yep and that's something that's so powerful because you can put this little piece of code from Facebook.  You can put it on your website one time and from here on out, Facebook is tracking every visitor and they're adding them to a list.  It's an invisible list.  They're not gonna give you their personal information but if you're getting 100 visitors a day, after 30 days, you're gonna have 3,000 people and an audience that you can now put an offer in front of.  

John Corcoran:  	Yeah, that's really powerful.

Keith Krance:  	So as far as getting started, I would say it's so much to cover.  Honestly, I'd go to my website.  I've got a ton of free stuff.  I don't wanna pitch that but I'd honestly go there.

John Corcoran:  	Go ahead, throw it out.  

Keith Krance:  	Go to dominatewebmedia.com and I've got like a nine-step Facebook checklist and some free stuff there and of course –

John Corcoran:  	That's a good place for them to start though.

Keith Krance:  	Go there but the one thing I want you to know is that it's not all about the ninja targeting and stuff like that.  That's how you really optimize down the road.  It's about having the right offer.  Give somebody something for free and then use Facebook to place that in front of them.  So the best types of ads on Facebook are newsfeed ads so it looks like a regular post, looks like an organic post that your cousin might put up on Facebook but you might say something like click this link to download this for free, Facebook checklist or website checklist or maybe it's, you know, discover the no. 1 mistake that people make when they're trying to change a light bulb, whatever it is, right? 

So that we have to use Facebook for is to kind of give them an a-ha moment so you have to figure out a way to get them thinking of why they, that there's a better way basically and once you educate them on that there's a better way than you can say hey, by the way, we also have a solution for that.  So you have to have, it's a process in place and once you do, man, if you're a local business, it's like customers on demand once you get it right.  

The local business is pretty simple.  You could just say by one get one free for a restaurant or something like that and you can just fill up your restaurant with Facebook ads and also be building a list but the big kind of I say small hinges that swing big doors, the big leverage points are I call your offer the lead magnet, what it is that you're incentivizing somebody, what they're clicking for and so figure that out.  Like for example, I did a consultation with a guy that's about to open a laundromat in Australia, like a laundromat, dry cleaners and they have no experience at all.  They're just totally green and I was like holy crap.

Google might even be the best place for them because people aren't lying awake at night thinking about you know, washing their clothes, right?  It's just no, not gonna be something there unless they moved somewhere and they're searching for it so the Google Ad Words I would do that for sure but if you're gonna run Facebook ads for something like that, I'm like, I'm trying to think outside the box and I said well, what if, they're gonna have like a concierge service, they'll come and pick up your clothes for you, right?

So now what they're doing is actually saving you time so you might have an ad that says something like did you know that the average person spends 2,876 hours in their lifetime doing laundry?

John Corcoran:  	That sounds painful.  

Keith Krance:  	Click here to never do it again, right?  So you're using Facebook to kind of boom, and then it's a local business so you might say hey, we'll come pick it up for free.  So the goal is to give them an irresistible offer, do it for free and then once you get to their business then you can show them it's great, maybe have a monthly plan, VIP package, sell them once they're in your store, same thing with the restaurant.  

John Corcoran:  	It sounds like a really primo laundromat in Australia.  I think I wanna send my laundry there.

Keith Krance:  	I know because if you wanna stand out from the crowd, that's what I would do and they're doing, I mean he said that's the service they're gonna offer is they're gonna go to pick it up and I said that's the only, if you wanna break out especially slaughter your competition, same with the dry cleaning, you'll do that and then maybe you'll do the first one for free and maybe you'll have a low end monthly option for people that wanna come do it themselves but then you have a higher end level which is your kind of profit maximizer which gives you the ability to go out and use Facebook ads to get new customers.

You wanna use Facebook.  Facebook's the blind date so that's how you give them some real value for free and then you have systems in place to kind of transition them more into your other sales and promotions.

John Corcoran:  	Okay, I wanna ask one more question on Facebook and then we'll wrap things up but you mentioned the blind date analogy so that's one challenge that people have with advertising in Facebook is that the traffic is coming to you completely cold.  They don't have any relationship with you, they don't know you.  So what advice do you have for your clients who are acquiring that kind of traffic in order to build that level of trust swiftly?

Keith Krance:  	So social proof, testimonials, those things are huge especially if it's super cold traffic, video, the more you can use video, whether it's a video ad in the newsfeed, I love those especially if people don't know you already where you literally upload a video as your post like not a YouTube video but the file like an MOV or am MP4 file, okay, from your phone or whatever and then you write something in a post, said something about whatever your offer is, maybe you know, click here to come in for a free like body fat composition or something like that and then you've got this video where you talk about get them excited or something like that.

The other way is I love testimonial videos so if you have testimonial videos, use those.  If you don't, incentivize your customers to make a testimonial video for you because it's game changing.  For us, we might upload a video testimonial so they see that and it's instant social proof like you don't even have to edit it or anything like that.  Just somebody does a basic video testimonial with their iPhone or with their webcam and we have some of our best campaigns are using video testimonials like that.  

It's low production and then we just add a little overlay text on the video that says click the link in this post and then they click that then it takes them to to a landing page and on that landing page is where you can have something of value like a coupon or a free report or a checklist or they can watch a video and then after they kind of opt in then you can just use video and email to build that relationship, that's the key.  The best way is video.  The more you can use video, the better.

John Corcoran:  	Good.

Keith Krance:  	If it's not on your ad, you have a video on your landing page.  If you're afraid of video, the only thing I can say is just fight through it. When I first started doing videos, I had to take a couple shots before I did a video literally.

John Corcoran:  	I'd like to see those videos now.

Keith Krance:  	Yeah, you can probably find some on YouTube.  

John Corcoran:  	Slurring your words all over the place.

Keith Krance:  	Yeah, timid and stuff and just like it's funny but I did it, I got over it and so that's the best way.  The thing is you got to understand about Facebook, it's all about people.  So what we try to do with our clients, we try to engineer a process to instantly build trust, build rapport, trust, and authority then move them down into your kind of sales process.  So that's it.

John Corcoran:  	Great, Keith, okay, the book is Ultimate Guide to Facebook Advertising.  One last question that I ask everyone, you pretty much answered this early on but I wanna wrap up with this.  Are there any other relationships that maybe you didn't mention at the beginning, whether it's with a mentor, a business partner, someone like a Perry Marshall, someone you look up to, someone who you bonded with who has played a real role in your success.  Just tell me in your world, anyone else.

Keith Krance:  	Yeah actually I just remembered there's a guy locally that they run the Western Washington GKIC Insider Circle.  It's a Dan Kennedy group.  It's a marketing group.  They meet once a month and the guy that runs that, I started going to that one when I first started doing the marketing world and excuse me, just the nicest guy in the world and he kind of just gave me the confidence.  He connected me to some people.  That landed me some stuff.  That relationship built a lot of ways.  

He took me to an event one time at the very beginning stages and now it's kind of like things are kind of revert, it's like reciprocated.  It's kind of funny so I ended up connecting with him with somebody that he's now trying to launch his own digital product and I connect him with the guy that helped him do this one day launch and it went really well and stuff like that so it's kind of crazy how it kind of came around.

John Corcoran:  	It's always nice when you're able to help someone who helped you early on like that.

Keith Krance:  	Yeah, exactly.  

John Corcoran:  	It is, yeah.  Great, Keith, thank you so much and where can people find out more information about you? 

Keith Krance:  	I would just say go to dominatewebmedia.com and you can download my Facebook checklist and register for a webinar if I've got one coming up or stuff like that.  So that's it.

John Corcoran:  	Excellent, all right, thank you, sir.

Keith Krance:  	No problem, appreciate it.  It was fun.  

Transcribed by GMR Transcription

The post 075: Keith Krance | How to Build Relationships using Facebook appeared first on Smart Business Revolution.

074: David Hancock | The Entrepreneur’s Book Publisher
37:17
2017-09-21 04:57:47 UTC 37:17
074: David Hancock | The Entrepreneur’s Book Publisher

rsz_smart_business_revolution_podcast_artwork_redWe can all agree on one thing, right? Traditional book publishing is dead.

Or maybe not.

If you think the Amazon Kindle and digital books are going to kill off all traditional book publishers, you need to listen to this episode of the Smart Business Revolution podcast.

But first: what does publishing a book have to do with building relationships?

I focus on interviewing successful entrepreneurs about how they got to their level of success through the lens of relationships.

I’ve covered a lot of topics – from face to face networking to creating your own conference, to body language, to using social media tools like Facebook, or LinkedIn – all in the name of growing your relationships, your network and growing your income.

I cover all of these topics to help show you how you can grow better relationships, with more people who matter, faster, in today’s digital world.

Now one topic I’ve touched on a couple of times is publishing a book.

David HancockPublishing your own book is an amazing tool for building relationships in today’s digital world. (Click to tweet)

How? When you publish a book, you are building relationships with everyone who reads your book.

When people read your book, they get to know you better. They hear your voice. They get to know your personality.

Just ask anyone who has read a book by Jon Krakuer or Bill Bryson or Tim Ferriss. When you read books by those authors, you feel like you get to know the author.

Writing a book is a way to build relationships at scale.

Now obviously publishing has changed dramatically in recent years thanks to the explosion in self-publishing.

That’s why I invited my guest, David Hancock, onto this podcast.

Hancock is the founder and head of a very unusual book publisher, Morgan James Publishing.

The boutique publisher is very innovative in the way they operate. They actually call themselves ‘The Entrepreneurial Publisher.’

They’ve published a number of NY Times bestsellers by authors like Brendon Burchard and Jeff Walker – two guys who come from the world of internet marketing.

In this interview, we cover:

  • How the self-publishing revolution has changed the traditional publishing world forever
  • What value traditional publishers provide to authors in today’s day when so many authors are flocking to the Amazon Kindle Platform
  • Why he says he’s a HUGE fan of Amazon even though the Kindle platform has made it easier to self-publish
  • interesting insight into the TWO audiences that you as an author need to sell a book concept to – book buyers and the book consuming public, which are different in subtle ways.
  • Why you need to leverage a book to build a business by creating other products.
  • Why authors shouldn’t focus just on selling a book, but should focus on the message, the purpose and the passion behind the book.
  • What you should do with 95% of your communications to the world as an author or a communicator.

Hancock also corrects me on why authors should not be giving away a free chapter of their books on their websites – something I’ve always thought was a good idea.

If you’re thinking about writing a book in the future, if you’ve written a book, or if you enjoy reading books like I do, then you do not want to miss this episode.

Resources from this Episode:

Right Click here to download the MP3
Click here to subscribe via iTunes

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Transcript of Interview:

Intro...
John Corcoran: 	All right.  I’m speaking with David Hancock and David, I want to press you on one thing.  Okay?  So self-publishing is all the rage today.  There are tens of thousands of books that are being published on Amazon Kindle each year.  And I’ve interviewed a number of authors who have published through these non-traditional channels, like Amazon Kindle.  And they love it.  

So what I want to know is you’ve got a traditional quote, unquote traditional publishing house, if you’d call it that.  I don’t know if you use that word for it, but why are publishing houses even relevant today?  And how do you keep them relevant?

David Hancock:	That’s a really good question.  And I can clarify a little bit about what place that we kinda fit into this traditional world because we’re very traditional, but we’re very unconventional as well.  So I love that.

But publishers, in order to stay relevant, have to continue to change.  And they’re not necessarily changing as quickly as they should.  But what makes them still relevant now is a little bit of – a couple of thing, a distribution network of getting the authors voice out to a larger audience.  

To give you an example, I’m a huge fan of self-publishing.  I’m a huge fan of Amazon, obviously.  But you know, Amazon represents only on average about 24 percent of the overall business to just about publisher.  That means 76 percent of the sales goes someplace else.  And that’s been typical for us as well.

So the extra distribution into not only brick and mortar stores throughout the world or North America, specifically, but also the airports, just the various independent mom and pop shops that really do still make a big difference in an author’s career being discovered.  But also what makes them relevant still today – and all this is subject to change and there are some few things that they really do need to change, and I’ll share those with you as well – is their professional product, their editorial support, they’re guiding the text and the author in hopefully the direction that the consumer will mostly benefit from.

Because not only do you have to have a good author that’s got something good to day.  It needs to make sure that it’s in a product that the author – or excuse me, that the consumer will buy.  Actually, it’s two-fold really.  First, we as publishers have to design and create products that the buyers from the bookstores will buy first.  Because if they don’t buy it the consumer’s not gonna buy it.  So it’s a little two-fold, but we do get good feedback from those bookstore buyers, so distribution, credibility with good product, some guidance on the content and just years of experience of knowing what works, what doesn’t work and how to listen to the consumer.

John Corcoran:	That’s interesting that from a publishing perspective you’ve got a couple of different audiences.  You’ve got the bookstore buying public that you need to sell to.  You’ve got the consumer public that you want to buy the book.  You’ve got the author that you want to buy your services, so you’ve got to be selling to all these different potential buyers.

David Hancock:	I know.  Right?

John Corcoran:	Yeah.  So your website describes you as having an entrepreneurial publishing model that – and you say that it enriches the author as well as the company.  You’ve even got a breakdown on your website of traditional publishers, how they compensate authors, versus how you compensate authors.  So tell me what this entrepreneurial publishing model looks like?

David Hancock:	Yeah, absolutely.  The common core with us is our authors tend to be entrepreneurial in nature.  Even though we do have various lines of publishing that we do, we’ve got our traditional business, non-fiction line, we’ve got a faith line, we’ve got a fiction line.  We’ve even got a kids’ line and the kids’ line was just so I could give books away to our Habitat partners.  But the common theme is they’re entrepreneurial.  And we are entrepreneurs ourselves, so we love to fan that entrepreneurial flame in all of our authors.  But we help them figure out the bigger picture.

And we love working with authors that are doing things, not just for the sake of selling a book but leveraging the books to grow business, grow a passion or some sort of message.  We encourage them.  We help them figure out ways to create other products.  We help them get on their speaking tour.  So it’s all about things that are beyond the book.

In fact, we often will spend just as much time with the authors teaching them how not to sell a $17.00 book because it’s really hard to sell a $17.00 book.  It’s really sell to hundreds, if not thousands, of books by just focusing on the message, the purpose and the passion behind why it’s there in the first place and taking advantage of the authority aspect that the book gives you.  Now, that’s primarily for the non-fiction side.  But it still rings true for some of the other genres as well.

John Corcoran:	I want to dive into that, the differences between fiction today and non-fiction.  But you also mention how not to sell a book.  So what are some of the mistakes that author make when they come to you in terms of selling their books?

David Hancock:	It’s actually pretty simple, just the fact of an author giving away a free chapter of their book on the website you think would be a really smart thing to do.  You think it’s actually a good idea because they’re trying to capture some names and give away some ethical bribe, but the reality is the consumer doesn’t want to buy a book.  They don’t want to buy anything.  They want to get you and your information for free.

So an author could take that exact same content, instead of calling it a chapter in a book – it still is – call it what it is.  Call it the name of the chapter or give it a different name, The Top Ten Reasons Why Your Widget Needs to be Sharper, whatever.  Give that content to them still in exchange for their name and email address.  You can develop that relationship but don’t call it a chapter in a book.  

You’ll see your conversions go up faster because they don’t want to be sold.  The idea is if you’re giving away a free chapter, even if they like the concept, they think, huh, there’s other chapters that they’re gonna want to sell me.  I don’t want to buy anything, so they’ll pass.

John Corcoran:	That’s really interesting because just a couple of days ago – I have egg on my face – I advised an author friend of mine, who’s got a book out, who doesn’t do the best with collecting emails on her site.  So I said, “Why not instead of just saying sign up for my newsletter, why don’t you give away a free chapter for your book?”  So I guess I got to get back in touch with her and let her know that that’s not the most effective model because people view it as they’re being sold to.

David Hancock:	Exactly.  They could still give away a chapter of the book.  Just don’t call it a chapter of the book.  

John Corcoran:	Interesting.  Just call it something else.  Okay.  Well, that’s an interesting point.  And you’ve seen that that’s been tested, I assume, with some of your authors?

David Hancock:	It has.  And then once you get their name and email address, you then nurture them and love them with constant – trickled with your, whether it’s a newsletter or some sort of communication with them via email.  But you have to remember 95 percent of your communication to the world, whether it’s through email or through social media is to give them what they want. 

And oftentimes, that’s not always what we want.  We want them to buy stuff now and come to the event or whatever.  But 95 percent of the communication to the world needs to be educate, encourage, inspire and entertain them because that’s what they want and that’s what they expect.  The other 1 to 5 percent of the time will be to get them to do something very specific.

Fortunately, in today’s environment, even though you have less of an opportunity to ask, you can ask.  And you just need to be very clear.  In fact, you almost want to tell them what to do, as long as you’ve got that ratio of 95/5, you can say, “No go buy my book.  Go review my book.  Hire me as a speaker.  Come see me at this event.  Come buy my friend’s product.”  You can be very specific about what you want them to do as long as you’re nurturing and caring and loving and giving to them the other 95 percent of the time.

John Corcoran:	So you’ve touched on a couple of things that I want to dive into a little bit deeper, and you have worked with some authors that have a background as internet marketers, like Jeff Walker and Brendon Burchard.  And you mentioned collecting email addresses.  And some of these ideas are gonna be kinda foreign to people listening to this.  So I’d like to dive into it a little bit deeper.

But before we do that, I’d like to get back to the point about fiction versus non-fiction.  How has publishing fiction books versus non-fiction changed?  How is it different today from the way it was, let’s say, five to ten years ago?

David Hancock:	On the fiction side it’s all about the story.  It really is.  It’s about how well your fiction book compares to other successful fiction books.  In the non-fiction world, the bookstore buyers, the Barnes and Nobles, the Chapters, the Powells guys out there, they buy based on their perception of an author’s ability to generate bucks, almost 100 percent. 

The fiction world they’re buying based on how well they think the story might be – they’re not gonna read it.  But they also compare it or what to know how it compares to John Grisham’s books or other really successful fiction stories, why yours is similar or better or in the similar vein.  That’s what they buy mostly.  And then, of course, the author’s ability to generate buzz plays a small part but not as much as the non-fiction side.

But in recent years, the eBook explosion, which we all know about, has definitely affected the fiction side but not necessarily in a bad way.  Right now 50 percent of the fiction books that are sold are sold in eBook platform, which is more profitable for publishers and sometimes for the authors.  But also it’s easier to create that conversation with the eBook side because people can share and link and tweet from their devices to kinda grow that message.

The paperback, the physical book, of the fiction side will still be relevant but the eBook is catching up.  One area, you’ve probably seen those mass market paperbacks in the bookstore or used to see them, the romance novels that were two inches thick and small, that’s all been replaced by eBooks, just that particular genre.  But for the rest of the fiction world, it’s about 50 percent.

John Corcoran:	How does your company handle eBooks?  Do you – so you publish the paper version and then you publish it on Amazon as well?  How does that work compared to someone who goes a traditional – or someone who goes a non-traditional route just going directly through Amazon Kindle?

David Hancock:	Yeah.  I’m a big fan of – I’m a guerilla marketer at heart.  I mean, I’m a true guerilla at heart.  In fact, we publish most of the guerilla books, but we try to practice what we’re preaching.  So I’m a big fan of giving the end user the product that they want in any format that they could possibly conceive it in.  

So we deliver the eBook in over 1,800 different devices and platforms as well as typically we’ll do the paperback, which is for the bookstores.  We’ll do the hardcover, which is usually for libraries or the speakers out there, the authors who are speakers as well.  But the eBook we want to try to give it to them in every conceivable platform, whether it’s on a device like a Kindle or through a service like Oyster or Scribd or even downloading it to their iPhone as a pdf or something like that.  So we’re a big fan of just kinda giving it to them in any platform that they want.

John Corcoran:	And you mentioned your guerilla marketing line of books, which you’ve been a coauthor on, I believe, about a dozen or so books.  So that’s kind of interesting to me because you’re kind of a study in contrast.  On the one hand, you have a publishing house.  On the other hand it’s like you’re giving away the recipe to go around a publishing house.  So how do you reconcile those two tendencies?

David Hancock:	Yeah.  I tell you we’re just blessed.  My passion has always been, even when we started this 11 years ago, was all about how I could help somebody leverage the power of a book to grow their message.  In fact, when I first became very passionate about the book, I tried to find people the best path for them.  I just wanted to make sure they got the message out.

It could have been through Simon and Schuster.  It could have been through Amazon.  It could have been through their local printer.  I just wanted to get that message out.  So absolutely, any author could be entrepreneurial in nature no matter how they publish their book.  What attracts the authors to submit their proposals to us, even though now over the last 11 years we’ve gotten pretty picky?  We only do about 150 titles a year and we’re really looking for good people that’s got something really good to say that can be part of the family.  

We want to just encourage them to get it out there, and we have to be this little dichotomy of both traditional mindset but also entrepreneurial and flexible, like the guerilla minds.  I forgot what the question was now.  

John Corcoran:	It was just reconciling the two tendencies between publishing house and also being a guerilla marketer at heart and giving away the recipe to authors about how to be a guerilla marketer.  I mean, you’d think if they take your books to heart, then they’d be like, “Ah, what do I need Morgan James for?”

David Hancock:	Yeah, exactly.  And that’s okay.  And some people may want to go ahead and do that.  But we – just like the other publishers, we try to bring some additional value to the table to – we like to earn our keep.  We want to make sure that we’re adding value but staying out of the way, assisting them with their goals. 

Because the way I look at it, we have nothing unless we have authors that are meeting their goals.  We’re only successful because our authors are successful.  So in that case, everybody wins.  Whereas, a lot of old school traditional publishers are all about the bottom line, all about them, all about authors being just a commodity, which that has to change.  Whereas, the self-publishing is just you and your own world trying to be successful and you’re making all the decisions whether you’re qualified or not.  So it is a nice little blend, but my passion is helping authors find the right home.

John Corcoran:	So let’s talk a little bit about the traditional publishers.  I want you to, to the extent you’re comfortable – throw a little mud here.  Throw a little dirt.  So I have negotiated – as a lawyer, I have negotiated and reviewed contracts for author clients and looked at them.  And they’re unbelievably one-sided.

David Hancock:	Oh, my gosh.

John Corcoran:	Yeah.  And so, I’d love for you to talk a little bit about what the traditional publishers’ future is and the ways in which they need to change.

David Hancock:	Yeah.  So you’re right.  Even our contracts are even one-sided.  Now, obviously, they need to be still a win-win for the most part.  They still need to be a benefit for the author.  And the reason why they’re one-sided is even though the author has the content, the author really kinda holds the key to what the consumer might want, the publishers will end up investing a significant amount in them.  So that’s kind of why they’re one-sided.

I’ll give you an example.  Even with us, even though we may not print 100,000 copies on every book we publish to get them out to the stores, we don’t print and pray they sell.  We print and distribute based on actual perception of them buying it, pre-orders that we get, and a perception of what the book might do.  So we try to be a little smarter, with all due respect.

But still, for instance, even with some of our 23 New York Times bestseller listings we’ve had, we may have as much as a quarter million dollars invested in it before we get a dime from the bookstores.  Sometimes maybe even as little as 30,000 or 15,000, depending on the book.  So we’ve got this huge risk out there, even though it’s the author’s content, their passion, their baby that’s gonna make us successful.  We’ll have a lot invested into it.  So those contracts will always be one-sided.  As long as you understand that the publisher can bring a lot of value to the table and you don’t give away too much it can be good.

John Corcoran:	But the traditional publisher, so what are they still doing – because they obviously aren’t as entrepreneurial.  There’s a lot of authors who complain about the way that they traditional publishers have not innovated.  So talk about that a little bit.

David Hancock:	Part of it is the contracts that we’re still seeing today still have not very good clear language on what the publisher is actually gonna be doing.  In fact, a lot of contracts may not even spell out exactly what is an eBook or spell out the various ways that they might produce the book.  Some contracts still have old school technology that’s not even being used anymore as far as how they might publish a book.  

Some contracts from companies that you’re probably familiar with and you’ve probably seen this are too broad, where they take everything away from the author.  We had one author – and I’ll give you an example – we had one author who was a bestselling author with another publisher, a traditional house, been around for 200 years.  But they also were published with us on a story or on a book.  

And he had reached out to that other publisher saying, “Hey, I’m having an event.  It’s based on the book that I’m the bestselling author with you.  I need some copies of my book.”  Well, the editor first said, “Who are you?”  Now, this is the guy who happens to be a No. 1 bestselling author, but this publisher and his primary point of contact with the publisher was like, “Who are you again?  Oh, okay.  Let me look you up.”  I kid you not. 

But he also said, “Well, you know, you’ve bought the most that you can buy of author discounted copies that we can sell you, so you’ll have to buy them from the bookstore or pay a retailer or get them from somebody else other than us.  You can’t buy them at your author price anymore.”  And then they said, “Well, what are you doing?”  “Well, I’m putting on this seminar.”  He hasn’t hung up the phone yet.  “I’m putting on this seminar.  It’s about this.  I’m promoting our book and we’re hopefully gonna sell a bunch of books and create this way to continue as a bestseller.”

And they go, “Well, you know, you don’t really have permission to do that.  We own that content anymore.  You should have gotten permission from us to do that event.  We’ll need to get back with you to see if we’re even gonna allow you to do it.”  It was amazing.

Whereas, from my perspective, that kind of stuff sells books.  Our authors can buy as many books as they want from us at their author price as they want.  They can do as many seminars as they want.  Heck, they can give the books away.  I don’t care as long as that message is getting out, they’re creating that conversation.  We’re gonna sell a boatload of books.

John Corcoran:	Mm.  Really interesting.  Okay.  Let’s dive into talking about some of the authors that you’ve worked with.  So recently, for example, Jeff Walker – so those who don’t know who Jeff Walker is, he’s an internet marketing guy who’s built his business around helping other internet marketers, other online entrepreneurs to launch digital products online.  And he’s made a lot of money doing this.  He’s been very successful.  Why does he come to someone like you?

David Hancock:	Of course, only they could answer that question, but I’ll tell you why I think and what I’ve heard.

John Corcoran:	I can ask it another way.  How do you sell someone who’s made millions selling digital products, how do you entice them to sell a physical book?

David Hancock:	It’s all about that credibility that’s associated with a physical book and especially when it comes to a point where it hits something like that New York Times when they really can leverage that aspect.

John Corcoran:	Which is what happened with his particular book launch.  

David Hancock:	Exactly what – and it was very strategic and he had to launch that well because that what his whole story is.

John Corcoran:	Yeah.

David Hancock:	And I love Jeff.  I’ve known him for years.  I’ve been planting seeds with him on the book since about 2006.

John Corcoran:	Wow.

David Hancock:	But for us, it’s all about adding value and staying out of the way.  So them maintaining complete control of the content, it’s their baby, especially a lot of these marketers and their message.  Nobody – you don’t come in there and start tinkering with their words, whereas, a lot of publishers do.  And sometimes that’s a good thing, but for most of the time I don’t think it’s a good thing.

So authors still maintain complete control of the content.  It’s still theirs.  We make decisions together.  So whereas, if you get published with a bigger house, Simon Schuster or Random House, whoever, they’re gonna make decisions for you, whether you like it or not.  And if you self-publish you’re gonna make decisions whether you’re qualified or not.  What we do is a little different.  We make decisions together.

In fact, one of the fun things that we end up doing – and I’m not trying to sell us.  I’m selling one of the fun things that we do, and this is why some of those bigger guys will still publish with a medium sized house like us instead of sticking with or going straight to the big guys is that we try to make sure we’re bringing their message, their passion, their branding, what supports them best to the world.  

So for every book that we end up accepting, we create what we call is this entrepreneurial vision mastermind group.  And it’s really just the two teams coming together for the benefit of the author and the reader.  Now, the author’s team may be them, their editor, their agent, their publicist, their neighbor’s dog, their ghost writer, whoever’s important to them and our team.  

And on our team we’ve got a guerilla marketing expert, a branding expert, a PR expert, a design expert and whatever I can bring to the table and together we flesh out all the details.  Do we have the right title?  Do we have the right subtitle?  What should it look like, taste like, feel like, smell like?  When should it come out?  What price?  All these decisions we make together with the big picture in mind.  What’s the next step that the reader’s gonna do?   Are they gonna come to the seminar?  Are they gonna buy the other product?  Are they gonna do this, do that?  We make all those decisions together with the entrepreneur’s vision being the most important part.  It’s dynamic and it’s fun.

John Corcoran:	So let’s speak to someone who’s listening to this who doesn’t have the audience or following that someone like a Jeff Walker or a Brendon Burchard is another one who you’ve published – it doesn’t have that kind of background.  How can they maybe use some of the strategies that those big guys did if they want to get published?

David Hancock:	It’s all duplicatable, just at different levels.  And we encourage and try to fan that entrepreneurial spirit, even if it’s not created yet.  Because by the time you have a book and get it on the bookstore shelves, there’s usually several months in between that you can develop those other products or develop that speaking platform, and just knowing that there needs to be a big picture.  Heck, even if it’s just capture the names and giving education and giving out information on your website.  

And if you don’t have anything to sell yet, the idea is planted and you can create that next product.  You can create other additional things.  You can recommend other products just by creating that relationship.  So it’s a process.

John Corcoran:	What does that look like for most of your authors who have a product through their website?  Just spell it out for someone who’s just getting started with this sort of thing.  How does a book help sell a product on a website?

David Hancock:	Let’s see.  I’ll give you an example.  Our first New York Times bestseller was by an author by the name of Joel Com.  It was based on a book – it was based on an eBook that was being sold digitally because he was an online marketer, internet marketer.  It was a $97.00 eBook called something like What Google Never Told You about Making Money with AdSense, I mean, really phenomenal book, several hundred pages long, massive content, really good.  And he was making really good money with it.  

But it wasn’t until we took that book and cut it down into a $24.00 physical book with less than half the content that he was selling for $97.00 and gave him the credibility behind that book from a physical book standpoint that people – the masses really started to pay attention.  Now, think of that.  Back in – this was 2006.  In 2006, website owners who had the technology or the wherewithal to know about Google’s AdSense program, which is literally just dropping code on your site to display Google ads was limited.  It was a very small audience.  

But we hit the Times.  We sold a boatload of books, increased his platform and he ended up making more money, more opportunity because of the lesser expensive smaller version of what he was selling off of his book.  He became – and he still is – a speaker that’s well paid and well requested and had other products that were similar that he sold.  He sold packages that taught people how to go a little deeper.  He sold live events on how to teach people how to do the things that were taught in the book.  

So it was just a matter of finding what the logical next step is for the reader in some of those cases as far as those other products.  But it’s interesting how a book gives you the authority to ask for the dollars that you’re worth for the rest of the things.  It doesn’t mean you can’t be successful selling your wares online without having a physical book.  IT’s just an amazing difference if you do.

John Corcoran:	Right.  And also having hit those bestseller lists as well, not just having the physical book but hitting the bestseller lists, you can always say you’re a New York Times bestselling author –

David Hancock:	Forever.

John Corcoran:	Blah, blah, blah.  Right.  So what are the strategies these days behind hitting those bestseller lists, behind hitting New York Times – I know that some authors – I see this with different authors out there.  They have these presale packages where they create different incentives if you buy a certain number of books.  Or they will swap a speaking fee.  They’ll agree – waive their high speaking fee.  Instead, you buy a couple thousand of my books and then I’ll do a speech for you.  So tell us about what sorts of strategies are employed these days in order to hit those bestseller lists.

David Hancock:	All of the above.  Everything you said is relevant.  But the reality is that there’s reasons why you want as many books to be tracked and reported as possible.  So there’s a catch 22.  So authors can buy books – same thing with the self-publishing world.  You could print your own books and sell them to your audience and nobody knows it happens except for you and your audience.  You may have made some money and that’s a good thing, but nobody else knows it happens.  

So the same thing with traditionally published authors or entrepreneurial published authors.  That tracking and that reporting is important because you want to be able to consider yourself to be this social proof of a bestselling author.  Now, obviously, the New York Times is the Holy Grail and if we’ve got time maybe you’re interested and I’ll kind of share with you what that actually looks like and what it takes.  But even just hitting the Business Week bestse – [cuts off abruptly]

David Hancock: 	– heck, even just hitting the Amazon bestseller list is better than not.  It’s funny.  From a speaking perspective, an author who also speaks can get paid one thing.  An author who speaks who happens to be a bestselling author can get paid more.  And if you happen to be a bestselling author on a recognized list, you can ask for more and if you hit the New York Times you can write your own check.

John Corcoran:	Well, so tell me about that, about some of these guys who’ve hit the bestseller lists, Jeff Walker, Brendon Burchard, the process behind it.

David Hancock:	You really can’t buy your way onto the New York Times.  You used to be able to.  You’ve heard of authors that kind of bought their way onto it.  That’s really not the case from even some of the recent authors you may have heard about, but it certainly isn’t something that can be done easily.  And the reason why that it’s the Holy Grail, the New York Times is very, very specific.  So I’ll give you just a real quick rendition.

Now, I’m not an expert but we have been blessed.  We’ve been on there 23 times.  We pay attention.  So it’s about selling more books than anybody else in a certain period of time.  And that’s pretty much the case for any list.  Some lists are monthly.  Some lists are weekly.  Amazon’s hourly.  So it’s different parameters.  But for the New York Times, primarily they’ve got a weekly list and a monthly list.  And the weekly list is the most coveted.  And it can take anywhere from ten, 11, 12,000 books to be sold in a week.  Now, that’s a lot of books.  But it’s really not that much books.

Not everybody realizes that you could be a New York Times bestseller with less than 15,000 books.  The average consumer from just what we’ve seen and polled and read thinks it’s hundreds of thousands of books.  Well, that’s not necessarily the case.  So that’s cool.  

But the hard part is those books need to be sold from both online stores and offline stores.  So with Amazon and Barnes and Noble and others, it just can’t be all of one or most of one.  And the internet marketers might think automatically that my book would just be sold on Amazon because that’s – I’m online.  That’s not necessarily the case.  But for the New York Times it needs to be from both.

But that’s not the hard part.  The real hard part is is those brick and mortar stores need to be located across the country.  So you can’t have too many sales happening in Virginia when it needs to be some in Texas and Missouri and California and New York and Connecticut.  It needs to be spread around the entire country.

But that’s not the hard part.  I know, right? 

John Corcoran:	I had no idea that the algorithm was so complicated.

David Hancock:	And they keep tweaking it so that you can’t master it or manipulate it, but it’s also –

John Corcoran:	Did they reveal it or how do you find out these details?

David Hancock:	You just have to pay attention.  No, they really don’t reveal it.  I mean, there’s some – they tell you a little bit but they don’t really give you the real details.  And I hate to say it but there actually is probably some – there probably is some politics involved as well.  And I’ll give you two examples.  So you just – you never know.

But the real hard part with the New York Times is the consumer, whoever receives that book, whether it’s from Amazon or others or walks out of the brick and mortar mom and pop shop or a Barnes and Noble needs to be located in a spread across the country.  So you can’t really buy a bunch of books from bookstores all across the country and ship them to a warehouse in Indiana and hit the list.  They actually need to be delivered to the consumer.

And you’ve heard of the Nielson ratings, I’m sure.  Well, there’s something called Book Scan, which is the Nielson ratings for books.  They track by county where that consumer is.  And so, imagine this, a map of the continental United States with blue all over the map.  That’s how you get the New York Times.  The New York Times says it’s a true sampling of what America is buying this week.  And unless you have all those parameters, you’re not necessarily gonna hit the list.

John Corcoran:	So if I’m in an aspiring author who’s listening to your interview right now, I’m thinking, wow, it’s so difficult to hit the New York Times bestseller list.  Why do I even bother trying?  So let’s give them some hope.  If they aren’t a big name, they aren’t famous, let’s give them some hope.  What should they do?  What could they do?

David Hancock:	Well, the New York Times would certainly be all of our – I’m speaking for all of us – but should be your big, hairy audacious goal to have one day.  But think of the small wins.  So first as a first time author, getting the book finished is maybe your first goal.  Don’t worry about selling it yet.  

But the smaller lists, hitting the Amazon bestseller list, hitting a regional newspaper bestselling list.  Heck, there’s even some lists like Business Week or lists you may never have heard of like the 800CEOread.com list, which is a very significant list that you may never have heard of.  Those are some small wins that can kinda help you get there.

And as you’re growing your platform, as you’re growing your audience and growing your language, maybe your second book, your third, your fourth book might end up hitting the Times.  But you have to have the goals, of course.

John Corcoran:	Wow.  So much work to get to that point.  

David Hancock:	[Inaudible] [00:04:38]

John Corcoran:	Yeah.  Yeah.  Okay.  Well, I think that’s about all the questions I have for you.  So thank you so much.  This is fascinating, the discussion here and the background behind it.  So tell us, David, where can people learn more about you?

David Hancock:	I’ve enjoyed this so thanks for the opportunity.  I love talking, the passion behind what we do.  Easy to find us.  We’re at Morganjamespublishing.com.  We’re also on Facebook, love to chat, be happy to – anybody in your audience I’d love to help them find their right path.  Anything I can do to help them out, I’d be honored to.

John Corcoran:	You know, I thought of one other question.  This is what I usually ask last, so I have to wrap up with this. 

David Hancock:	Okay.

John Corcoran:	And it’s a little bit of a departure from what we were talking about, but it relates to what I write about at Smart Business Revolution and talk about on the podcast.  So tell me a little bit about – now, you founded Morgan James Publishing 11 years ago now, as we record this.  Tell us a little bit about your journey and the relationships that contributed for you to the point where you’re at now, so the mentors that you had, business associates, colleagues, authors that you worked with, the relationships that really have contributed to your success.  Tell us about what role they’ve played.  And you can feel free to name names if you like or not.

David Hancock:	Yeah, absolutely.  I would be nowhere near where we are today without those relationships.  And I recognize that even as an entrepreneur, who you often might think is a solo person working by themselves getting things done, I got here because I had a lot of help from a lot of friends and a lot of respected advisors.  

Who I would say are first, my first true mentor was Jay Levison, the gorilla marketing guy.  I became a publisher.  I wrote my first book because Jay told me to.  But he was one of the ones that encouraged and inspired me to take it to the next step.  So I’m a big fan of having a mentor in your life, a big fan of having a coach. And his coaching program was well over ten grand back in the ‘90s when I first met him.  It was very, very powerful. 

Even to my first relationship with the internet marketing space, which is kinda where we launched our program, so a guy named Arman Moran.  I was actually Arman Moran’s banker back in the ‘90s.  He and I became friends.  We actually met even before he was on the internet.  Actually, we met before I was a banker.  We got way back, but he brought me to his crowd and introduced me as this entrepreneur publisher.  And I was there just to try to help him promote his events.  And it just kinda – it worked.  So I took a lot of coaching and advice from Arman.

And at those first conferences that he put on, I met basically our first 12 real authors that had space.  And it’s funny.  I laugh about this.  I had nothing to offer.  All I had was a really good idea, hopefully alt the right time, and my passion and enthusiasm and maybe my rugged good looks.  But my rugged good looks was questionable.  That’s where I had nothing to offer.  But it was fresh and it was time.  And then we had some good authors who knew how to sell books and knew how to take advantage of what we were trying to accomplish.  And then they would introduce me to their friends.

And I would learn more from them than they would ever learn from me.  And I would [inaudible] [00:07:36] and I would bring them on and I would ask questions.  And I would hire them and I would go their conferences.  And I would learn and I would implement.  So I’m in a constant learning mode.  

So those are some of the steps that I’ve taken to get here.  Even today, I was at a Chamber of Commerce presentation teaching about performance driven thinking and performance driven leadership as people in this space of being an authority in their space.  And I was learning more from the audience than I was teaching myself.  So it’s a process, but you have to be open to it and willing to change and take constructive criticism and be flexible.  One of the things – 
[Crosstalk] 

John Corcoran:	So – sorry, go ahead.

David Hancock:	I was just saying one of the things that Jay taught me years ago is that as an entrepreneur, we – as a gorilla entrepreneur, specifically, we have to be – we have to understand that inflexible things often become brittle and break.   And we haven’t had our success by being broken on the floor or too inflexible.

John Corcoran:	I love the lesson behind that.  You’ve got this publishing house that’s doing very well.  You’ve had some very successful authors who’ve published with you and yet today on a Thursday we’re recording this mid-afternoon my time.  You today are still out going to a local Chamber of Commerce and giving a presentation.

David Hancock:	Absolutely.

John Corcoran:	Yeah.  And what value does that provide for you?  I mean, you meet some people there?  You might get a potential author, new author?  Is that what you get from it?

David Hancock:	Well, maybe.  I do it because I love to serve the community.  I love to be able to just share some of the things that I’ve learned that could help others achieve their goals.  So I might be a little different than most people that are out there in the business world.  I get reward from helping others achieve their goals.  I’m blessed because I get financially rewarded by it in my day job, but I get a lot out of helping others find their right path and learn something that I might know that they could benefit from.

John Corcoran:	Excellent.  Okay.  Well, thank you so much, David.  I really appreciate it.

David Hancock:	Absolutely. 

Transcribed by GMR Transcription

The post 074: David Hancock | The Entrepreneur’s Book Publisher appeared first on Smart Business Revolution.

073: Dave Stachowiak | How to Recover From a Bad First Impression & Make a Good First Impression
29:34
2017-09-21 04:57:47 UTC 29:34
073: Dave Stachowiak | How to Recover From a Bad First Impression & Make a Good First Impression

rsz_smart_business_revolution_podcast_artwork_red

Have you ever made a bad first impression?

Of course you have. We all have.

But when you do make a bad first impression, many people struggle to figure out what to do next. Should you apologize? Should you keep quiet? Should you send flowers or a box of chocolates?

Maybe you should send over a bouquet of two dozen red roses, a case of nice wine, and a gift certificate for a facial* (*major bad first impressions only).

In this episode, I bring back my friend Dr. Dave Stachowiak, host of the Coaching for Leaders podcast, who I have done joint episodes with previously.  We talk about what to do when you make a bad first impression.

In addition to hosting his own podcast, Dave is a Senior Vice President for Dale Carnegie International of Southern California, where he helps to train professionals on social skills in the world of business.  So he’s the perfect guy to talk to about this topic.

EDave Stachowiaknjoy!

 

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Transcript of Interview:

Dave Stachowiak: 	Oh, you know what?  Let me do a backup recording, too.  Sorry.  I forgot to launch addition.

John Corcoran:	I’m doing back up as well.

Dave Stachowiak:	Okay.  Test.  Test.  Test.  There we go.  All right.  Here we go.  Well, I have John Cor – John, say your last name for me again.

John Corcoran:	Corcoran.

Dave Stachowiak:	All right.  Let me start again.  I always like – I don’t know what it is with our last name, but I just – I feel like I always want to say it wrong.  And I just want to ask you.

John Corcoran:	No worries.  No worries.

Dave Stachowiak:	Hey.  I’m on the line here with John Corcoran from Smart Business Revolution.  And John, we have done a couple of episodes before together, and I think this is our second joint appearance on both of our shows.

John Corcoran:	Yeah.  I just enjoy talking to you so much, Dave, that it’s fun to do joint shows together.  And I think that you and I care and talk about some of the same issues, so I’m glad to be doing it.

Dave Stachowiak:	And I care about you, John.  All right.

John Corcoran:	Awkward, awkward pause.  That was a wonderful way to start.

Dave Stachowiak:	All right.  Let’s start that again.  I was trying to be cute and it didn’t – oh, man, let me.  Hey everyone, Dave Stachowiak here from Coaching for Leaders and I have John Corcoran on the line who is with Smart Business Revolution.  And John, we’re at it again, another joint episode between us.

John Corcoran:	Another joint episode, yeah.  Last time we were talking about our impending births.  We were – both our wives were due around the same time with our second child.  And this time something completely different.  Right?

Dave Stachowiak:	Yeah.  Yeah.  How to recover from a bad first impression and you had written this great article a couple months ago on a blog called The Art of Manliness, which I was joking with around the time that I had not heard of it before, which means I may not be as manly as I need to be, but a really popular blog.  And you had been so kind to reach out to me to talk about the article in advance and had quoted me in the article.  And we both thought it would be really a great topic for both shows is when you have that – make that bad first impression, what are the kinds of things you can do in order to recover from it?

John Corcoran:	Right.  And that’s the kind of stuff that I write about for Art of Manliness is the kind of real world how do you react to when something happens, like you make a bad first impression or like you meet a neighbor and you don’t get along well.  And so, you had some great advice in that article about how – what to do in the immediate aftermath or longer term, how to build relationships with someone who maybe it’s someone you met at a conference or someone that you met around town or someone in an organization that you belong to.  What do you do when that happens?

So I think we’re gonna be diving into there are six concrete strategies that we talk about in the article.  And so, I think we’re just gonna march through and give the listeners of both of our shows some tips on how they can deal with a bad first impression.

Dave Stachowiak:	Yeah.  And I guess I’m thinking here just at the front end, John, of saying this is something we’ve all done.  We’ve all – we’re all human.  We’ve all had times where we’ve said something or maybe you even later on an hour or a day, a week later, we think about an interaction we’ve had with someone that maybe was a really important connection for us to make or an important relationship.  And we think, ooh, I kinda blew it on that first interaction.  And what do I do?  How do I approach that?  And it’s awkward.  It’s awkward sometimes to know what’s the right way to even start off addressing it?

John Corcoran:	Right.  Right.  And I think people should know that it’s human.  We all do it.  A lot of times when you’re trying to make a good first impression because it’s someone that you want to impress, maybe it’s an interview, maybe it’s someone who you want to work with, maybe it’s your future in-laws, it happens to all of us.  And so, oftentimes we’re racking our brain, so okay, do I say something now?  Do I wait?  Should I do a thank you, an apology note?  Should I send flowers, depending on the severity of the situation?  

Or oftentimes it’s kind of in a gray area.  It’s an in between kind of maybe I made a bad impression.  Maybe that joke just didn’t go over right.  And so, oftentimes I think we struggle with how we should react.

Dave Stachowiak:	Yeah.  And this actually is a great lead into the first point that you made in the article and I know was one of the things we had talked about when you were thinking through this article and doing the brainstorming for it of deciding whether or not to even take action.  And I think we – I think all of us owe ourselves some grace on, hey, we’re not always gonna nail a perfect first impression.  And does it even make sense to spend the time or the mental energy to try to address something?

Now, like you said, if it’s a key relationship, you know, if it’s future in-laws or our next boss or something like that, it probably really does make sense to think about, okay, how am I going to address making a poor first impression?  And there’s also a lot of times in life that we just sometimes just need to let something go and say, “You know what?  I don’t need to worry about this or obsess about it.  I didn’t make the greatest first impression in this particular business situation or at this particular meeting.  And probably I’m more worried about it in most cases than the other person was or maybe didn’t even notice it.” 

And so to really kinda do that checkpoint upfront of saying, “Hey, does it even make sense to really take time to think through how I need to take action on this?”

John Corcoran:	And I think that’s a good way of framing it, to think about is this really making a big impact on the other person, especially if it’s oftentimes maybe it’s someone who’s a little bit famous or just famous within your industry.  And so, they meet a lot of people.  They may not be thinking twice about the impression that you made on them.  And so, pointing it out to them might just highlight it in a way that they didn’t even notice.

So I think that’s an important first question for people to ask, whether you should even do anything.  And then, of course, moving along, the next question is if you do decide that you should do something, do it swiftly.  Apologize immediately or take action quickly.  And it doesn’t need to be something you dwell on.  It doesn’t need to be something that you spend a lot of time on, but maybe how would you do it, Dave?  Would you just very quickly say, “I just want to say that I feel like my joke went over flat.  And I apologize for that.”  Or how would you handle it?

Dave Stachowiak:	You know, I think it depends on the situation.  You and I – this is actually our second take on the recording.  So I started off and I made some sort of funny reference to like, “I care about you, John,” and it just totally landed flat.  And it was so bad that I said, “All right.  Let’s stop and let’s actually start the recording again because that was just awful and awkward.” 

And you know what?  You acknowledge it and you move on.  And I think that there’s a key piece to that of doing it quickly when you’re in the moment and you realize it, and you just say, all right, rather than pushing forward on something that’s not working or that just didn’t land right, of saying, “Oh, sorry.  That was really awkward,” and just be done with it, especially if it’s a little thing like that.  And just move on and acknowledge it.  

And I think back to Dale Carnegie’s principle of if you’re wrong, admit it quickly and emphatically.  And if you can just sort of fall on the sword and say, “Hey, I screwed up.  That wasn’t the best thing to say,” if you realize it in the moment, which we don’t always do.  But if you realize it in the moment is just address it right there and then it doesn’t have to be a big thing.

John Corcoran:	Yeah.  And of course, this is – it’s easier depending on your personality.  Some people really struggle with apologies.  They view it as a sign of weakness or there might be cultural issues.  There might be pride issues.  And so, sometimes people struggle with that, but I think that you could actually enhance your credibility with someone.  It shows confidence in yourself if you’re willing to say, “That joke fell flat.”  Or, “I was trying too hard there,” or, “I feel like I came on too strong.  I’m sorry about that.”

I know that when people do something like that that gives me – makes me hold them in high regard because they obviously have confidence enough in order to do that.  And it also shows that they care that you care about them.  And so, that’s another important point.

Dave Stachowiak:	Yeah.  And it is absolutely human nature that none of us want to admit that we’ve done something wrong.  And yet, to your point, John, I feel the same way.  When someone comes to me and says, “Hey, I screwed up,” or, “I was wrong about this,” or, “I just don’t feel like I approached this the right way or maybe I’ve wronged you in some way,” I’m really impressed by that most of the time.  I mean, that’s something for me that’s really a sign of confidence in oneself and also humility and the ability to acknowledge that you’re a human being. 

More often than not, when that’s happened in my personal life or professional life, that’s strength in the relationship I’ve had with that person.  And it’s something I’ve come to respect about them.

John Corcoran:	Yeah.  And you know, another point that I think we should make is that you don’t have to directly apologize in order to apologize.  There are different forms of apology, one of which is to ask for the person’s advice.  That shows a little bit of deference to the person’s opinion.  You can say, like, “Oh, you know, why did you come to here?”  Or, “What are you looking to get out of it?”  “What do you think of this event so far?”  It puts the attention back on them. 

And there are other subtle ways you can do it, too.  You can if you don’t want to formally apologize you can say, “Can I get you anything?  Can I get you a drink?  Can I get you something at the food table?”  Or without sounding like you’re making excuses you can maybe just explain that, “Oh, I just got here.  I’m a little bit confused about the room location.  I had trouble finding it.”  And then, those little pieces of information for the person that you’re trying to make a good impression on might explain why you made the bad first impression in the first place.

So it doesn’t have to – if you’re really uncomfortable with an outright apology, there are other more subtle ways you can show deference, you can show respect without having to directly say, “I feel like I really made a bad impression with you,” which those words in themselves can be very difficult to say.

Dave Stachowiak:	Yeah.  They can be and particularly if something just isn’t a big deal or it’s not worth maybe calling as much attention to, like we talked about up front.  Some of those more subtle things can be appropriate in those situations.  And you do a really good job, John, of kind of detailing those out in the article.  And of course, we’re both gonna link to it in the show notes so people can check it out as well.

And I would add to that in addition to, not instead of, I do definitely believe – and I know you do, John – that there are times that when we clearly have wronged someone that saying the words, “I apologize for this,” is the right way to approach it and not to try to do one of those more subtler things when it is something where you’re clearly in the wrong and you’ve done something that has offended someone or has clearly made them uncomfortable that that is the time then to actually say those words.

John Corcoran:	Sure.  Yeah.  And I’m sure we can all think of times where there was a customer service faux pas, where you were at a hotel or a restaurant or something, something went wrong and the person just wasn’t able to get those words out, just couldn’t say, “I apologize.”  And it’s amazing the impact that they have. 

 So if you are one of those types of people who struggle with that, then practice on a smaller level.  If something small happens to someone you’ve never met before, someone in the grocery store, practice apologizing so that in times when something bigger goes wrong you’re able to say it.  Because oftentimes it can cause a real breach in a relationship if you don’t actually use those words.

Dave Stachowiak:	Mm.  Mm.  And I love that advice about practicing and trying it out because I do think a lot of people really struggle with just saying the words, “I apologize.  I’m sorry.  I’m sorry.  I messed up.”  And if you can start to get comfortable with doing that and then you see the reaction from other people, then it isn’t as big a deal when you need to do it in a more serious situation.  I mean, it’s still a big deal but it’s not something you can’t overcome.

John Corcoran:	Yeah.  And you make the point in the article about the difference between a quote, unquote one-shot opportunity and a meeting that is gonna be longer or a relationship that is gonna be longer.  But if you’re going into, let’s say, a sales presentation where you have one-shot with a particular company or one particular meeting and that’s it, you only get that one shot, then that weighs in favor of responding and apologizing very quickly.  Because you have no other opportunity.  And if you bombed or you made a bad first impression, it is wiser to just apologize and try and make amends, try and make up for the bad first impression and to make something out of that opportunity.

Dave Stachowiak:	Yeah.  And this is – it was funny when you first reached out to me, John, and we were talking about the title of this article.  I was thinking this is not something that I would consider a core strength of myself when I go out in the world and go to events and have customer meetings and build new relationships.  I don’t think I generally make a bad first impression, but I’m also not the kind of person that walks into a room and lights the place up by any means.  I tend to be that quieter person.  And I don’t think I often make a stellar first impression on people when I meet them in person.

And so, I often will think about less about the first impression, although, I do really think that’s important, and by all means, we should nail the first impression if we can.  But I also will think about, okay, now what’s the second, third, fourth, fifth, sixth interaction?  How do I long term really demonstrate my true care for this person and my concern for them and what actions do I take or not take that are gonna be in alignment with that?

John Corcoran:	Yeah.  And that gets to – that I believe is the sixth point in the article, which I might as well mention now, which is about consistency, being consistent over time.  And one of the ways that you can respond to a bad first impression is by demonstrating that you’re sincere, demonstrating that you’re consistent and reliable and that the true nature of who you are is perhaps quite different from the first impression that you made.

And so, there are a lot of people I think who share that feeling that you have, Dave, that maybe they don’t make the best first impression, particularly if they’re meeting someone where there’s a lot on the line or where they’re meeting someone who they’re intimidated by, someone who is famous or quite successful or quite well known.  You see it all the time.  You see people who are meeting someone and they’re intimidated by them.

And the way that you can respond by that is not worrying about that one time, worrying about two times, three times, four times, being consistent over time.  It’s one of the reasons that on my side I talk about creating conversations lists, which is a list of people, 50-plus people that you want to have a conversation with over the next 12 months.  

And I deliberately call it that because a lot of times people put a lot of pressure on themselves to make that great first impression when, in fact, what’s more important is to have a conversation over time, to make an overall impression over a longer period of time.  And that’s really – those are the greater relationships is ones that stand the test of time.

Dave Stachowiak:	And by the way, you’re fabulous at doing that, John.  You regularly keep in touch and stay connected.  And I’m just amazed at how brilliant you are at being able to build relationships.  I mean, you really do walk your talk on that, both in person and online.

John Corcoran:	Thank you, sir.  All right.  So let’s move on to one of the other points in the article, which was when you do admit a mistake, don’t dwell on it.  And I was so excited to be able to use this.  I used in the article a snippet from the movie, Swingers, from the mid-‘90s which is a classic movie.  I loved it.  If you’ve seen it, you probably are cringing.  

There’s a scene where Mikey, who’s played by John Favro, he’s just broken up with a girlfriend.  He goes out with a bunch of friends bar hopping and he meets this girl that he hits it off with.  And they have a scene where the friends are all saying, “Oh, don’t call her.  Don’t call her.  You have to wait two days.”  And so, he goes home that night and against their advice, he decides to call her that night.  

And he calls – and this is back in the answering machine days.  He leaves a message on her answering machine and the first time he’s cut off.  And then, he calls back to correct it, it keeps talking and he’s cut off again.  And he ends up calling like about a half dozen times trying to apologize and it just gets worse and worse and worse.  He’s dwelling on it is what happened.

And so, for anyone who does have a situation where you make a bad first impression, just apologize and move on.  Because otherwise, you might end up like Mikey.  

Dave Stachowiak:	Yeah.  You’ve got to check out the article just for the clip of that.  It cracked me up when I saw it recently again, John, and I’d seen the movie years ago.  But yeah, it is just painful to watch because we’ve all been there.  You know?  We’ve all been somewhere where we’re trying to make something better and we just way overdo it.  

So this is kinda the opposite of what we talked about earlier.  It’s the other end of the pendulum where it’s not that we’re afraid to say sorry, but we just obsess about it and keep calling attention to something and keep bringing it up in the conversation in the relationship.  And you just need to move on.  Once – if the apology has been said and accepted, it’s time to move on and not obsess about it because then it becomes really awkward for everyone.

John Corcoran:	Right.  And then, the next question that people often have is what do I do if time has passed, if a day has gone by or a day and a half has gone by or a week has gone by and I’m still thinking, oh, man, should I apologize?  Is it too late?  What do you think, Dave?  Did I lose you?

Dave Stachowiak:	Oh, sorry.  I lost you there for a second.

John Corcoran:	Oh, sorry.  Yeah.  So but if it’s too late, do you think that apologizing a day later, two days later, three days later, or do you think that you should just let it go at that point?

Dave Stachowiak:	Yeah.  I would never say always or never on anything, so I think it depends of – sometimes that day or two provides that perspective of like okay, is this even worth calling attention to?  Was it a minor thing?  Does it – is this an ongoing relationship?  And although I would say, if you’re on the fence of should I say something or should I not, I think a lot of times it’s nice to say something.  And just say, “Hey, I said something a couple days ago.  When I thought about it later it didn’t quite land right with me.  I just wanted to mention it.”

I had that happen recently where I’d mentioned something to someone over email, something that didn’t quite land right.  And I thought about it two or three days later.  I don’t know why I didn’t think about it in the moment, but two or three days later I was thinking, hmm, that wasn’t quite the way I wanted to phrase that.  And I mentioned it and, you know, it wasn’t a big deal, but I felt better about it.  

And it was one of those things that I think I would have carried with me and just wondered if the other person was concerned about.  And I don’t know if they truly were or not, but I had the conversation.  And at least the other party knew that I cared enough to say something about it and to ensure that I hadn’t offended them in some way.  And ultimately, it worked out really well.  

And I think erring on that side is the side I’d rather be on than having said something and kinda wondering about it and then someone mentions it six months later, is like, “You know, you said something really awkward to me,” and you’re like, “Oh, wow.”  I should have said something.

John Corcoran:	Yeah.  Boy, isn’t it the worst when you hear about that later.  Or maybe you become good friends and they say, “You know, you made a horrible first impression on me the first time,” and they mention something that you don’t even remember like you were picking your teeth or something like that.  

But I think if it’s a day or two later, then – and you’re still dwelling on it, if you can do it and do it quickly then it’s – even if the person thought nothing of it, you’re probably not gonna lose anything from apologizing a day or two or a week later.  The person’s probably not gonna think any less of you if you do it quickly.  

I mentioned in the article my friend, Kevin Waldron, who’s a business coach.  And he gives an example of what he’ll do if a day or two later he’ll call the person back up and just kinda say something in a joking way.  He’ll say – and he’s Scottish, so he’ll say, “In my poor attempt at Scottish humor, I said something about your mother and I didn’t mean it that way.”  So it was just my poor attempt at humor.  And what I like about that is it’s self-deprecating.  And it also explains without sounding like you’re making excuses.  And it’s quick.  And it’s quick as well.  So that’s a good way to handle it if some time has gone by.

Dave Stachowiak:	Yeah.  And I think the only danger with the apologizing later is like we talked about earlier of just dwelling on something or becoming obsessive about it.  So say it and then move on, like you said.  It’s just hard to imagine a situation, unless you get obsessive about it, where offering an apology, even after the fact is gonna be harmful to a relationship.  And oftentimes it’s something that I think the other party often find that is really helpful in just knowing how you care and that you were thinking about them and that you want to make sure that you didn’t offend them in some way.

John Corcoran:	Right.  Absolutely.  And then the fifth point that we cover in the article is about pivoting.  So if you have a bad first impression and you have thought about apologizing, maybe you have apologized or not, you’ve admitted your mistake but you haven’t dwelt on it, you’re moving on, and you hit the point of what to do next, oftentimes pivoting can help you move on with the relationship.  And it’s simply focusing your attention, focusing your conversation on a different aspect of your personality that can help to reshape the person’s perception of your character or of your worth.

And I give an example, actually, from my life from my grandfather, who my grandfather, John the first – I’m actually the third – was a World War II B-17 pilot during World War II.  And he was with the Army Air Corps and he was 20 years old in 1939.  He was at the World’s Fair in Queens, New York.  He spots this attractive young woman whose name was Peggy Gallagher sitting on an information booth.  He walks right up to her and he says he needs some information.

She asks, “What do you need?”  And he asked if she would have dinner with him that night.  And so, that ended up being my grandmother.  That’s how they met.  It turns out she was actually a model in the Billy Rose Aquacade Show, which was like a bunch of models and water works and kind of like a choreographed show girl type thing that they did in the ‘20s.  You know?  

And so, what ended up happening, though, is that she was initially turned off by him, but then after I guess she gave him a shot and he ended up winning her over with his personality and sense of humor.  And so it basically pivoted.  He got past the initial bad first impression and showed other aspects of his personality.  

Dave Stachowiak:	Yeah.  And that’s something that I think – you know, and I know that there’s this phrase out there, John, where people say and it’s been popularized of, “It’s not personal.  It’s business.”  Let me get it right.  

And I don’t know.  I’ve always been a big believer that business is personal and that it’s our lives.  It’s the kinds of things we choose to do with our time and our talents and that it’s perfectly acceptable – in fact, I enjoy it when people bring their personalities and their interests into the business relationships and you learn about someone and you see more aspects of their personality other than just the role or the leadership capacity that they’re in or being the representative for the business or whatever.  I mean, I really enjoy learning more about people than just their professional connection with me, whatever that is.

John Corcoran:	I totally agree with that.  I think one final point that is made in the article – and then I think we should sum up the six points again just to make sure everyone has them.  The final point, which I think we’ve already articulated here today is just at a certain point first impressions are not last impressions.  

And you have to move on from that initial meeting, no matter what happened, no matter whether you apologized or didn’t, you can’t let it continue to color the way that you behave around this person or group of people.  And you have to move on and still be yourself because if you aren’t then you don’t have a chance of continuing to develop that relationship because the relationship’s not gonna flourish from that point forward.  So at some point you just need to continue to move on.

Dave Stachowiak:	I’m glad you mentioned that because while I’m impressed by someone who makes a great first impression like anyone, I really value much more the long term relationship from a person.  And if that is there and they put forth that continual care and effort into developing a relationship with me, I often don’t even remember the first impression.  It’s that long term care and concern that is the kinds of things that make me want to engage with someone long term, not what they said at that first meeting.

John Corcoran:	Right.  All right.  So summing up the points that we discussed here today, we have six strategies for recovering from bad first impression No. 1, decide whether or not to take action.  No. 2, take swift action, if you do take action and apologize immediately.  No. 3, is admit your mistake but do not dwell on it like Mikey in Swingers did.  

Dave Stachowiak:	And if you want some inspiration, go check out the three-minute video.

John Corcoran:	It’s great. 
[Crosstalk] 
Dave Stachowiak:	It’ll remind you of that.

John Corcoran:	I’m definitely betting that in the show notes.  No. 4, apologize later even if time has passed.  It’s okay to do a quick apology even if it’s been a couple of days or a couple of weeks.  Pivot, move on and talk – show off other sides of your character, other sides of your personality.  And then, finally, No. 6 is to be consistent over time, to continue.  The best way you can correct a bad first impression is showing through your actions how you care later, as you said in the article, Dave.

Dave Stachowiak:	Yeah, exactly.  And you know, it’s like having a bank account, John.  It’s not what you do on any one particular day.  You may make a big deposit one day, but if you’re always making withdrawals every week after that, you’re gonna zero out your bank account pretty fast.  But if you’re making consistent deposits and once in a while you have a withdrawal for something that you make a bad impression, that’s not gonna be a big deal because it’s about the long term and the consistency.  And like you said, and I can’t say it better myself, first impressions are not last impressions.

John Corcoran:	That’s right.  Well, thank you, Dave.  This has been fun.

Dave Stachowiak:	Hey, I feel the same way.  And hey, by the way, thanks for being so great and consistent over time.  You’re a real example for that for a lot of folks, John.

John Corcoran:	Oh, I feel the same way about you, Dave.  So for everyone who’s listening to this through my end of the podcast, since this is a joint podcast, Dave, tell people where they can learn more about you. 

Dave Stachowiak:	Oh, thanks, John.  Yeah.  Coachingforleaders.com is the place to go and you can connect there with the show or just find it on iTunes or Stitch or wherever you normally listen at Coaching for Leaders.  Just do a search.  That’s easy.  

And John, on your end for my listeners, I know you are running your show as well, Smart Business Revolution. And so, http://smartbusinessrevolution.com/coachingforleaders if people want to grab the book.  Right?

John Corcoran:	That’s right.  I’ve got a free 52-page guide called, How to Increase Your Income Today by Building Relationships with Influencers Even if You Hate Networking.  And it’s really about how to build relationships with anyone who is influential to you, someone who you look up to, someone who you admire, someone in your local community, or someone who’s internationally famous, how you can build relationships with them in a sincere way.  So great, Dave.  This was fun.  We have to do it again.

Dave Stachowiak:	Absolutely.  Thanks, John.

John Corcoran:	And more frequently than every six months, too.

Dave Stachowiak:	Oh, I’m definitely for it.  I’m game.  Talk to you real soon.

John Corcoran:	Okay.  Bye-bye.

Transcribed by GMR Transcription

The post 073: Dave Stachowiak | How to Recover From a Bad First Impression & Make a Good First Impression appeared first on Smart Business Revolution.

Josh Turner | How to Leverage LinkedIn to Grow Your Leads
2017-09-21 14:14:25 UTC
Josh Turner | How to Leverage LinkedIn to Grow Your Leads

Josh Turner Smart Business Revolution John Corcoran

rsz_smart_business_revolution_podcast_artwork_redJosh Turner is the Founder and CEO of LinkedSelling and the Developer of Connect 365; an email automation software that helps you re-target lost leads, touch base with future leads, and even follow-up on failed payments.

In this episode, we also talk about:

  • Josh’s Journey of Becoming a LinkedIn Guru
  • How Josh Used a LinkedIn Group to Help Build Authority in the Beginning
  • Don’t Be A “Leg Humper”
  • Is LinkedIn’s Paid Membership, Sales Navigator, Worth It?
  • Josh’s Experience Developing the Connect 365 Software
  • The Main Mistake People Make When Developing Software
  • How Josh Uses Connect 365 to Re-target Lost LinkedIn Leads
  • Josh’s Mentors Throughout the Evolution of His Professional Life
  • Who Josh Thanks for His Success

Sponsor: Rise25

This episode is sponsored today by Rise25, the training company founded by my business partner, Dr. Jeremy Weisz and myself with the mission of helping business owners from professional services get away from “trading hours for dollars” and shift from “one to one” client work to “one to many” programs and offers.

We are building a community of entrepreneurs who realize the world and economy is changing and who want to work smarter than trading time for money so they can scale up their business and spend time doing what they love.

Check out Rise25 to learn more about our retreats and training programs.

Right Click here to download the MP3

Click here to subscribe via iTunes

Advertise on the Smart Business

The post Josh Turner | How to Leverage LinkedIn to Grow Your Leads appeared first on Smart Business Revolution.

Daniel Jordi | How to Get Paid to Throw Executive Roundtables (Including at Tesla!)
2017-09-21 14:14:25 UTC
Daniel Jordi | How to Get Paid to Throw Executive Roundtables (Including at Tesla!)

Daniel Jordi Smart Business Revolution John Corcoran

rsz_smart_business_revolution_podcast_artwork_redDaniel Jordi is Founder and Managing Director of LeadersBridge; and has enabled more than 20 million Swiss francs by connecting people who belong together via private, invite-only gatherings and executive roundtables.

In this week’s episode, we’re talking about how he turned his hobby into a business and how you can follow his same model.

In this episode, we also talk about:

  • How Daniel Started Creating Private Gatherings of Influential People
  • Daniel’s Tactics for Getting Influential People to Attend His Gatherings
  • How Daniel Kept His Costs Down in the Beginning
  • When Daniel Transitioned into Monetizing His Hobby of Making Connections
  • A Breakdown of Daniel’s Typical Executive Roundtable
  • Daniel’s Method for Monetizing Executive Roundtables Without Charging Attendees
  • How Daniel Manages to Hold His Executive Roundtables at Tesla Headquarters
  • Daniel’s New Peer-to-Peer Network
  • Who Does Daniel Thank for His Success?

Sponsor: Rise25

This episode is sponsored today by Rise25, the training company founded by my business partner, Dr. Jeremy Weisz and myself with the mission of helping business owners from professional services get away from “trading hours for dollars” and shift from “one to one” client work to “one to many” programs and offers.

We are building a community of entrepreneurs who realize the world and economy is changing and who want to work smarter than trading time for money so they can scale up their business and spend time doing what they love.

Check out Rise25 to learn more about our retreats and training programs.

Right Click here to download the MP3

Click here to subscribe via iTunes

Advertise on the Smart Business

The post Daniel Jordi | How to Get Paid to Throw Executive Roundtables (Including at Tesla!) appeared first on Smart Business Revolution.

Daniel DiPiazza | How to Live an Epic Life
2017-09-21 14:14:25 UTC
Daniel DiPiazza | How to Live an Epic Life

Daniel DiPiazza Smart Business Revolution John Corcoran

rsz_smart_business_revolution_podcast_artwork_redDaniel DiPiazza is an author, CEO and Founder of Rich20Something, and he grew three separate businesses into the six figures. His writings have been featured in Time, Yahoo Business, Fortune, Entrepreneur, and more.

I’ve known Daniel for a while now and I am always amazed at the new perspectives he brings to the entrepreneurial table.

In this episode, we also talk about:

  • What Working in Food Service Taught Daniel About Entrepreneurship
  • What Made Daniel So Determined to Be Successful?
  • How Daniel Used Automation Systems to Gain More Time to Grow His Audience
  • How Daniel Used Instagram to Rapidly Grow His Audience
  • The Importance of Getting Your Various Platform Follows into an Email List
  • What Daniel Would Do First If He Had to Build an Audience from Scratch
  • Why Daniel Cut His Email List in Half and Changed How He Markets His Products
  • Who Daniel Thanks for His Success

Sponsor: Rise25

This episode is sponsored today by Rise25, the training company founded by my business partner, Dr. Jeremy Weisz and myself with the mission of helping business owners from professional services get away from “trading hours for dollars” and shift from “one to one” client work to “one to many” programs and offers.

We are building a community of entrepreneurs who realize the world and economy is changing and who want to work smarter than trading time for money so they can scale up their business and spend time doing what they love.

Check out Rise25 to learn more about our retreats and training programs.

Right Click here to download the MP3

Click here to subscribe via iTunes

Advertise on the Smart Business

The post Daniel DiPiazza | How to Live an Epic Life appeared first on Smart Business Revolution.

Gary Guseinov | From B.A. in Psychology to 1.8 Million Users
2017-09-21 14:14:25 UTC
Gary Guseinov | From B.A. in Psychology to 1.8 Million Users

Gary Guseinov Smart Business Revolution John Corcoran

rsz_smart_business_revolution_podcast_artwork_redGary Guseinov is a former mentor for 500 Startups, has started and invested in several companies, and is currently the Founder of Business Hangouts; a webinar platform that currently has 1.8 million users.

In this episode, we also talk about:

  • What is a Webinar?
  • How Different Businesses Can Use Webinars
  • How Gary Went from a B.A. in Psychology to What He Does Now
  • Gary’s Experience Being a Mentor at 500 Startups
  • Why Gary Has Chosen to Focus on Webinars
  • Why You Shouldn’t Let Intimidation Stop You from Doing Webinars
  • Where are Webinars Headed in the Future?
  • Why Webinars Have a Higher Conversion Rate Than Other Forms of Marketing
  • Who Gary Thanks for His Success

Sponsor: Rise25

This episode is sponsored today by Rise25, the training company founded by my business partner, Dr. Jeremy Weisz and myself with the mission of helping business owners from professional services get away from “trading hours for dollars” and shift from “one to one” client work to “one to many” programs and offers.

We are building a community of entrepreneurs who realize the world and economy is changing and who want to work smarter than trading time for money so they can scale up their business and spend time doing what they love.

Check out Rise25 to learn more about our retreats and training programs.

Right Click here to download the MP3

Click here to subscribe via iTunes

Advertise on the Smart Business

The post Gary Guseinov | From B.A. in Psychology to 1.8 Million Users appeared first on Smart Business Revolution.

Kim Walsh Phillips | How to Get 10,000 Facebook Fans in 72 Hours for Under $100
2017-09-21 14:14:25 UTC
Kim Walsh Phillips | How to Get 10,000 Facebook Fans in 72 Hours for Under $100

Kim Walsh Phillips Smart Business Revolution John Corcoran

rsz_smart_business_revolution_podcast_artwork_redKim Walsh Phillips is an award-winning speaker, author, and the CEO of Elite Digital Group. Kim is responsible for putting over a billion dollars in her clients’ pockets with direct response social media marketing and she is sharing some of her best tactics with you today.

In this episode, we also talk about:

  • What is Direct Response Social Media Marketing?
  • How Kim Gets Her Clients Real Results Using a Juicy Carrot
  • Which Should Come First: Building an Email List or Building a Social Media Following?
  • What Social Media Platform Should You Be on First?
  • How Facebook’s Data Mining Partnerships Help You Target Your Ideal Customer
  • How to Monetize Your Social Media Leads
  • Kim’s Tactics for Adding 10,000 Facebook Page Fans in Under 72 Hours for Less Than $100
  • Who Kim Thanks for Her Success

Sponsor: Rise25

This episode is sponsored today by Rise25, the training company founded by my business partner, Dr. Jeremy Weisz and myself with the mission of helping business owners from professional services get away from “trading hours for dollars” and shift from “one to one” client work to “one to many” programs and offers.

We are building a community of entrepreneurs who realize the world and economy is changing and who want to work smarter than trading time for money so they can scale up their business and spend time doing what they love.

Check out Rise25 to learn more about our retreats and training programs.

Right Click here to download the MP3

Click here to subscribe via iTunes

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Jesse Krieger | How to Publish Your Book
2017-09-21 14:14:25 UTC
Jesse Krieger | How to Publish Your Book

Jesse Krieger Smart Business Revolution John Corcoran

rsz_smart_business_revolution_podcast_artwork_redJesse Krieger has toured the US in a rock band, was flown all around the world as a dating coach, traveled to and lived in around 25 countries, and has started and sold multiple businesses. Currently, he’s the Founder of Lifestyle Entrepreneurs Press who helps other people get their books published and, today, we’re diving into the power of publishing a book.

In this episode, we also talk about:

  • The First Step to Becoming a Published Author
  • Tools for Creating the Framework of Your Book
  • Should You Write a Book If You Don’t Have Room for New Clients?
  • Should You Give Your Book Away for Free?
  • What to Expect if You Decide to Self-Publish
  • Why You Should Produce Your Book in Kindle, Paperback, and Audio Formats
  • The Importance of Building a Community of Your Ideal Clients
  • Why’s Jesse’s Excited About the Current State of Self-Publishing
  • Should You Put All Your Eggs in Amazon’s Basket?

Sponsor: Rise25

This episode is sponsored today by Rise25, the training company founded by my business partner, Dr. Jeremy Weisz and myself with the mission of helping business owners from professional services get away from “trading hours for dollars” and shift from “one to one” client work to “one to many” programs and offers.

We are building a community of entrepreneurs who realize the world and economy is changing and who want to work smarter than trading time for money so they can scale up their business and spend time doing what they love.

Check out Rise25 to learn more about our retreats and training programs.

Right Click here to download the MP3

Click here to subscribe via iTunes

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Tony Cappaert | How to Build a Team
2017-09-21 14:14:25 UTC
Tony Cappaert | How to Build a Team

Tony Cappaert Smart Business Revolution John Corcoran

rsz_smart_business_revolution_podcast_artwork_redTony Cappaert is the Co-Founder and C.O.O. of Contactually (affiliate link); which is a fast-growing relationship management platform and personally one of my favorite software tools. While we’re, of course, going to talk about Contactually today, we also dig into some tips and tactics for how to properly nurture your network.

In this episode, we also talk about:

  • The Origins of Contactually
  • Tony’s Method for Getting the Attention of Someone He Wants to Learn From
  • Tony’s Tactics for Nurturing Relationships While Maintaining a Busy Schedule
  • How Tony Finds Content to Share with Those in His Network
  • Contactually’s Features for Building and Nurturing Relationships
  • How Tony Manages Multiple Responsibilities Within His Company and Being a New Dad
  • Tony’s Advice for Deciding What Aspects of Your Business You Should Focus On
  • Tony’s Process for Handling Setbacks While Growing a Startup
  • Who Tony Thanks for His Success

Sponsor: Rise25

This episode is sponsored today by Rise25, the training company founded by my business partner, Dr. Jeremy Weisz and myself with the mission of helping business owners from professional services get away from “trading hours for dollars” and shift from “one to one” client work to “one to many” programs and offers.

We are building a community of entrepreneurs who realize the world and economy is changing and who want to work smarter than trading time for money so they can scale up their business and spend time doing what they love.

Check out Rise25 to learn more about our retreats and training programs.

Right Click here to download the MP3

Click here to subscribe via iTunes

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Joel Erway | How to Crush It with Webinars
2017-09-21 14:14:25 UTC
Joel Erway | How to Crush It with Webinars

Joel Erway Smart Business Revolution John Corcoran

rsz_smart_business_revolution_podcast_artwork_redJoel Erway is the Founder of The Webinar Agency and, after a stint as a mechanical engineer, found himself falling in love with sales. He took a leap of faith and hired Russell Brunson to help him transition into entrepreneurship. He now helps other entrepreneurs development 7-figure webinars.

In this episode, we also talk about:

  • What is a Webinar?
  • Joel Journey from Mechanical Engineer to Online Entrepreneur
  • How Joel Discovered the Power of Webinars
  • The Main Mistake Entrepreneurs Make When Doing a Webinar
  • Joel’s Tips for Getting People to Your Webinar
  • How to Find a Balance Between Educating and Pitching During Your Webinar
  • What Type of Closing Method Does Joel Recommend for Webinars?
  • The Importance of Cultivating Curiosity, Anticipation, and Excitement
  • The Ideal Webinar Follow-Up Sequence
  • The Difference Between Live and Evergreen Webinars
  • Joel’s Software Recommendations for Hosting Webinars
  • The Future of Webinars

Sponsor: Rise25

This episode is sponsored today by Rise25, the training company founded by my business partner, Dr. Jeremy Weisz and myself with the mission of helping business owners from professional services get away from “trading hours for dollars” and shift from “one to one” client work to “one to many” programs and offers.

We are building a community of entrepreneurs who realize the world and economy is changing and who want to work smarter than trading time for money so they can scale up their business and spend time doing what they love.

Check out Rise25 to learn more about our retreats and training programs.

Right Click here to download the MP3

Click here to subscribe via iTunes

Advertise on the Smart Business

The post Joel Erway | How to Crush It with Webinars appeared first on Smart Business Revolution.

Heather Ann Havenwood | How to Become a Sexy Boss™
2017-09-21 14:14:25 UTC
Heather Ann Havenwood | How to Become a Sexy Boss™

Heather Havenwood Smart Business Revolution John Corcoran

rsz_smart_business_revolution_podcast_artwork_redHeather Ann Havenwood, is the founder of Sexy Boss™, Inc. and the author of a book by the same name. She’s built three companies from zero to a million dollars, has experienced bankruptcy as the result of betrayal by a business partner, and has bounced back to now helping other entrepreneurs turn their businesses into million dollar ones.

In this episode, we also talk about:

  • How Heather Built a Million Dollar Real Estate Company
  • Why Heather Had to File for Bankruptcy
  • Heather’s Journey of Coming Back After Losing Everything
  • How Heather Built a Million Dollar Information Marketing Company
  • The Inspiration Behind Heather’s Book Geared Towards Female Entrepreneurs
  • Heather’s Advice for “Beating the Big Boys” Amid Rampant Sexism
  • The Importance of Mindset in the Face of Adversity in Business
  • The Significance of Surrounding Yourself with Like-Minded People
  • Why Every Entrepreneur Needs to Share Their Personal Story

Sponsor: Rise25

This episode is sponsored today by Rise25, the training company founded by my business partner, Dr. Jeremy Weisz and myself with the mission of helping business owners from professional services get away from “trading hours for dollars” and shift from “one to one” client work to “one to many” programs and offers.

We are building a community of entrepreneurs who realize the world and economy is changing and who want to work smarter than trading time for money so they can scale up their business and spend time doing what they love.

Check out Rise25 to learn more about our retreats and training programs.

Right Click here to download the MP3

Click here to subscribe via iTunes

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Jeff Goins | Real Artists Don’t Starve
2017-09-21 14:14:25 UTC
Jeff Goins | Real Artists Don’t Starve

Jeff Goins Smart Business Revolution John Corcoran

rsz_smart_business_revolution_podcast_artwork_redJeff Goins, is the best-selling author of five books and a previous guest on the show. Today, he’s here to talk about his latest book, Real Artists Don’t Starve, and it’s a conversation that I personally found eye-opening and incredibly interesting.

In this episode, we also talk about:

  • Why Jeff Decided to Write His Latest Book, Real Artists Don’t Starve
  • The Story of Michelangelo’s Secret Fortune
  • Are Artists Artists Actually Starving in Today’s Market?
  • Why Jeff Thinks Good Artists Should Steal
  • Why Every Artist Should Be an Apprentice
  • How Collaboration Can Make All the Difference
  • The Importance of Owning Your Work
  • The Man Jeff Thanks for His Creative Side

Sponsor: Rise25

This episode is sponsored today by Rise25, the training company founded by my business partner, Dr. Jeremy Weisz and myself with the mission of helping business owners from professional services get away from “trading hours for dollars” and shift from “one to one” client work to “one to many” programs and offers.

We are building a community of entrepreneurs who realize the world and economy is changing and who want to work smarter than trading time for money so they can scale up their business and spend time doing what they love.

Check out Rise25 to learn more about our retreats and training programs.

Right Click here to download the MP3

Click here to subscribe via iTunes

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The post Jeff Goins | Real Artists Don’t Starve appeared first on Smart Business Revolution.

Felena Hanson | How 3 Layoffs Led to a Chain of Spa-Inspired Co-Working Spaces for Women Business Owners
2017-09-21 14:14:25 UTC
Felena Hanson | How 3 Layoffs Led to a Chain of Spa-Inspired Co-Working Spaces for Women Business Owners

Felena Hanson Smart Business Revolution John Corcoran

rsz_smart_business_revolution_podcast_artwork_redFelena Hanson found herself having been laid off three different times by the age of 30 and decided to make a change. She went on to found Hera Hub, a spa-inspired female-focused co-working space that now has multiple locations in multiple countries and we’re going to talk about that journey today.

In this episode, we also talk about:

  • Why Felena Decided to Start Spa-Inspired Co-Working Spaces for Women
  • Why Felena Thinks Women Should “Lean Out”
  • Is Obtaining Work/Life Balance a Realistic Goal?
  • Felena’s Advice for Women Who Want to Become an Entrepreneur
  • The Importance of Not Waiting for the Perfect Moment to Start Your Business
  • Should You Start a Passion-Based Business?
  • Who Felena Thanks for Her Success

Sponsor: Rise25

This episode is sponsored today by Rise25, the training company founded by my business partner, Dr. Jeremy Weisz and myself with the mission of helping business owners from professional services get away from “trading hours for dollars” and shift from “one to one” client work to “one to many” programs and offers.

We are building a community of entrepreneurs who realize the world and economy is changing and who want to work smarter than trading time for money so they can scale up their business and spend time doing what they love.

Check out Rise25 to learn more about our retreats and training programs.

Right Click here to download the MP3

Click here to subscribe via iTunes

Advertise on the Smart Business

The post Felena Hanson | How 3 Layoffs Led to a Chain of Spa-Inspired Co-Working Spaces for Women Business Owners appeared first on Smart Business Revolution.

Amanda Goldman-Petri | How to Market Like a Nerd
2017-09-21 14:14:25 UTC
Amanda Goldman-Petri | How to Market Like a Nerd

Amanda Goldman-Petri Smart Business Revolution John Corcoran

rsz_smart_business_revolution_podcast_artwork_redAmanda Goldman-Petri, founder of Market Like a Nerd, is on the show today to discuss her incredible story that involves experiencing some dark, depressing days to launching multiple six+ figure businesses.

In this episode, we also talk about:

  • How Amanda Shifted from a Victim Mentality to a Positive Mentality
  • When Amanda Learned Hustle Will Only Take You So Far
  • Understanding the Concept of Working Smarter
  • When is Your Business Ready for Paid Traffic?
  • How Amanda Started Working Online in Social Media Marketing
  • Amanda’s Experience with a $50,000 Mastermind Group
  • When Amanda Decided She Wanted to Coach Others
  • Why Amanda Has Declared a War on Hustle
  • What is a Cash Injection Campaign and How Can It Benefit Your Business?
  • Who Amanda Thanks for Her Success

Sponsor: Rise25

This episode is sponsored today by Rise25, the training company founded by my business partner, Dr. Jeremy Weisz and myself with the mission of helping business owners from professional services get away from “trading hours for dollars” and shift from “one to one” client work to “one to many” programs and offers.

We are building a community of entrepreneurs who realize the world and economy is changing and who want to work smarter than trading time for money so they can scale up their business and spend time doing what they love.

Check out Rise25 to learn more about our retreats and training programs.

Right Click here to download the MP3

Click here to subscribe via iTunes

Advertise on the Smart Business

The post Amanda Goldman-Petri | How to Market Like a Nerd appeared first on Smart Business Revolution.

Roland Frasier | How to Go from Attorney for Tony Robbins to Deal Maker Extraordinaire
2017-09-21 14:14:25 UTC
Roland Frasier | How to Go from Attorney for Tony Robbins to Deal Maker Extraordinaire

Roland Frasier Smart Business Revolution John Corcoran 2

rsz_smart_business_revolution_podcast_artwork_redRoland Frasier, like me, is a recovering attorney turned entrepreneur. However, even as an attorney, Roland was a little unconventional. Instead of charging his clients by the hour, he liked to charge flat-rate fees and create business deals and partnerships with them.

This led Roland into businesses in an incredibly wide variety of fields and today he’s one of the owners of DigitalMarketer; which is one of the largest and most respected online marketing companies.

In this episode, we also talk about:

  • How Roland Started Selling Real Estate at 18 Years Old
  • Why Roland Went to Law School if He Didn’t Intend to be a Lawyer
  • What Working with Tony Robbins Taught Roland About Networking
  • How Roland Got Involved with Direct Marketing
  • Roland’s Tips for Being Respected by Your Peers
  • Roland’s Unusual Business Model for His Direct Marketing Business
  • Roland’s Method of Connecting with People He’s Interested in Working with
  • Why Roland’s Never Had a Bad Business Partnership
  • Who Roland Thanks for His Success

Sponsor: Rise25

This episode is sponsored today by Rise25 Inner Circle… Rise25 is an exclusive, application-only accountability and group coaching program for professional services entrepreneurs running 6, 7 and 8 figure businesses who want to scale up, and shift from “one to one” client work to “one to many.”

Rise25 Inner Circle was founded by my business partner, Dr. Jeremy Weisz and myself… every few months, at 4-star luxury properties, we bring together like-minded entrepreneurs who come from client-serving backgrounds and they want to make the shift from chasing clients to having large groups of clients and buyers chasing them.

What makes these events different from any other events you’ve seen for entrepreneurs is we bring in our “Sherpas” – 8 and 9 figure entrepreneurs who are there the full time, in the retreat room providing feedback. Think of the Sharks from “Shark Tank” except they only give out advice rather than investment.

Then we back up those live in-person retreats with ongoing, regular accountability and group coaching – so you are guaranteed to turn inspiration into action.

Check out Rise25 to learn more

Right Click here to download the MP3

Click here to subscribe via iTunes

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The post Roland Frasier | How to Go from Attorney for Tony Robbins to Deal Maker Extraordinaire appeared first on Smart Business Revolution.

Gene Hammett | How to Get More Speaking Gigs
2017-09-21 14:14:25 UTC
Gene Hammett | How to Get More Speaking Gigs

Gene Hammett Smart Business Revolution John Corcoran

rsz_smart_business_revolution_podcast_artwork_redGene Hammett is a coach, speaker, and podcast host. He’s also run a multi-million dollar company, filed bankruptcy, lost everything, and bounced back with a powerful story to tell. Today, talk about those experiences and the lessons he learned from them.

In this episode, we also talk about:

  • Why Gene Felt Compelled to Go into Sales
  • How the Tragic Events on 9/11 Changed Gene’s Career Path
  • Gene’s Strategy for Managing High-Stakes Projects like the Superbowl and the Olympics
  • Why Gene Believes Relationships are the Backbone of Everything He Does
  • The Lesson Gene Learned After Losing $3 Million in One Day
  • How a Coach Helped Gene Through His Business and Personal Struggles
  • What Gene Hopes People Take Away from His Story
  • Who Gene Thanks for His Success

Sponsor: Rise25

This episode is sponsored today by Rise25 Inner Circle… Rise25 is an exclusive, application-only accountability and group coaching program for professional services entrepreneurs running 6, 7 and 8 figure businesses who want to scale up, and shift from “one to one” client work to “one to many.”

Rise25 Inner Circle was founded by my business partner, Dr. Jeremy Weisz and myself… every few months, at 4-star luxury properties, we bring together like-minded entrepreneurs who come from client-serving backgrounds and they want to make the shift from chasing clients to having large groups of clients and buyers chasing them.

What makes these events different from any other events you’ve seen for entrepreneurs is we bring in our “Sherpas” – 8 and 9 figure entrepreneurs who are there the full time, in the retreat room providing feedback. Think of the Sharks from “Shark Tank” except they only give out advice rather than investment.

Then we back up those live in-person retreats with ongoing, regular accountability and group coaching – so you are guaranteed to turn inspiration into action.

Check out Rise25 to learn more

Right Click here to download the MP3

Click here to subscribe via iTunes

Advertise on the Smart Business

The post Gene Hammett | How to Get More Speaking Gigs appeared first on Smart Business Revolution.

Brennan Dunn | How to Become a Thriving Freelancer
2017-09-21 14:14:25 UTC
Brennan Dunn | How to Become a Thriving Freelancer

Brennan Dunn Smart Business Revolution John Corcoran

rsz_smart_business_revolution_podcast_artwork_redBrennan Dunn‘s story starts out like a lot other entrepreneurs; working in corporate while freelancing on the side. However, Brennan was able to transition from being a freelancer to building multiple businesses and becoming an expert in the freelancing community.

In this episode, we also talk about:

  • How a Pregnancy Changed Brennan’s Career
  • The Mistakes Brennan Made While Growing Growing His Business
  • Why Brennan Changed His Business Model and Lowered His Rates
  • Brennan’s Shift to Using Live Events and Webinars for Leads
  • How Brennan Limited His Chances of Competition
  • Who Brennan Thanks for His Success

Sponsor: Rise25

This episode is sponsored today by Rise25 Inner Circle… Rise25 is an exclusive, application-only accountability and group coaching program for professional services entrepreneurs running 6, 7 and 8 figure businesses who want to scale up, and shift from “one to one” client work to “one to many.”

Rise25 Inner Circle was founded by my business partner, Dr. Jeremy Weisz and myself… every few months, at 4-star luxury properties, we bring together like-minded entrepreneurs who come from client-serving backgrounds and they want to make the shift from chasing clients to having large groups of clients and buyers chasing them.

What makes these events different from any other events you’ve seen for entrepreneurs is we bring in our “Sherpas” – 8 and 9 figure entrepreneurs who are there the full time, in the retreat room providing feedback. Think of the Sharks from “Shark Tank” except they only give out advice rather than investment.

Then we back up those live in-person retreats with ongoing, regular accountability and group coaching – so you are guaranteed to turn inspiration into action.

Check out Rise25 to learn more

Right Click here to download the MP3

Click here to subscribe via iTunes

Advertise on the Smart Business

The post Brennan Dunn | How to Become a Thriving Freelancer appeared first on Smart Business Revolution.

Joe Fairless | How to Raise $100M in Private Funding in a First-Time Real Estate Deal
2017-09-21 14:14:25 UTC
Joe Fairless | How to Raise $100M in Private Funding in a First-Time Real Estate Deal

Joe Fairless Smart Business Revolution John Corcoran

rsz_smart_business_revolution_podcast_artwork_redJoe Fairless is a former advertising Vice President who decided to transition into real estate investing at a time when everyone else was getting out. It served him well as he was able to raise over $100 million in private funding for his first deal. He now helps others learn about real estate investing through coaching and his podcast, The Best Ever Show.

In this episode, we also talk about:

  • How Joe Raised Over $100 Million for His First Real Estate Deal
  • Joe’s Advice for Approaching Potential Investors
  • Joe’s Transition from Advertising to Real Estate
  • The Importance of Surrounding Yourself with the Right People
  • Why Everyone Should Start a Podcast or Blog
  • How Joe Gets Big Name Guests for His Podcast
  • Who Joe Thanks for His Success

Sponsor: Rise25

This episode is sponsored today by Rise25 Inner Circle… Rise25 is an exclusive, application-only accountability and group coaching program for professional services entrepreneurs running 6, 7 and 8 figure businesses who want to scale up, and shift from “one to one” client work to “one to many.”

Rise25 Inner Circle was founded by my business partner, Dr. Jeremy Weisz and myself… every few months, at 4-star luxury properties, we bring together like-minded entrepreneurs who come from client-serving backgrounds and they want to make the shift from chasing clients to having large groups of clients and buyers chasing them.

What makes these events different from any other events you’ve seen for entrepreneurs is we bring in our “Sherpas” – 8 and 9 figure entrepreneurs who are there the full time, in the retreat room providing feedback. Think of the Sharks from “Shark Tank” except they only give out advice rather than investment.

Then we back up those live in-person retreats with ongoing, regular accountability and group coaching – so you are guaranteed to turn inspiration into action.

Check out Rise25 to learn more

Right Click here to download the MP3

Click here to subscribe via iTunes

Advertise on the Smart Business

The post Joe Fairless | How to Raise $100M in Private Funding in a First-Time Real Estate Deal appeared first on Smart Business Revolution.

David Nihill | Do You Talk Funny?
2017-09-21 14:14:25 UTC
David Nihill | Do You Talk Funny?

David Nihill Smart Business Revolution John Corcoran

rsz_smart_business_revolution_podcast_artwork_redDavid Nihill is the author of Do You Talk Funny? and the Founder of FunnyBizz which is a community, writing platform, and conference series that helps content creators access top comedic writing talent. He places a heavy emphasis on incorporating comedic storytelling into public speaking engagements and interactions with your potential customers.

In this episode, we also talk about:

  • Why Humor is Relevant in the Business World
  • Tips to Develop a Sense of Humor if You’re Not Naturally Funny
  • How David Used Stand-Up Comedy to Gain Public Speaking Public Speaking Skills
  • The Importance of Using Inherently Funny Words
  • Comedy is in the Details
  • How to Utilize Misdirection for a Comedic Effect
  • The Boundaries of Comedy in a Business Context
  • How to Combat Stage Fright with a Memory Palace
  • Who Does David Thank for His Success

Sponsor: Rise25

This episode is sponsored today by Rise25 Inner Circle… Rise25 is an exclusive, application-only accountability and group coaching program for professional services entrepreneurs running 6, 7 and 8 figure businesses who want to scale up, and shift from “one to one” client work to “one to many.”

Rise25 Inner Circle was founded by my business partner, Dr. Jeremy Weisz and myself… every few months, at 4-star luxury properties, we bring together like-minded entrepreneurs who come from client-serving backgrounds and they want to make the shift from chasing clients to having large groups of clients and buyers chasing them.

What makes these events different from any other events you’ve seen for entrepreneurs is we bring in our “Sherpas” – 8 and 9 figure entrepreneurs who are there the full time, in the retreat room providing feedback. Think of the Sharks from “Shark Tank” except they only give out advice rather than investment.

Then we back up those live in-person retreats with ongoing, regular accountability and group coaching – so you are guaranteed to turn inspiration into action.

Check out Rise25 to learn more

Right Click here to download the MP3

Click here to subscribe via iTunes

Advertise on the Smart Business

The post David Nihill | Do You Talk Funny? appeared first on Smart Business Revolution.

Jonathan Milligan | From High School Teacher to Full-Time Blogger
2017-09-21 14:14:25 UTC
Jonathan Milligan | From High School Teacher to Full-Time Blogger

Jonathan Milligan Smart Business Revolution John Corcoran

rsz_smart_business_revolution_podcast_artwork_redJonathan Milligan followed in his parent’s footsteps and became a teacher. However, after just three years, he knew he wanted something more. He left teaching to become an Executive Recruiter but soon tired of the “feast or famine” way of life that is so common when one lives entirely off commissions. Jonathan realized the blog he’s been working on in his spare time showed the potential to make some real money so he made the leap into full-time blogging and hasn’t looked back since.

In this episode, we also talk about:

  • How Jonathan Went from Teaching to Executive Recruiter
  • The Networking Insights Jonathan Gained as a Recruiter
  • Finding a Balance Between Building Relationships and Earning Commissions Quickly
  • Jonathan’s Transition into Blogging Full-Time
  • What Jonathan Found Difficult About Leaving a Service-Based Business Model Behind
  • Where Jonathan Learned All the Ways He Could Earn Money Online
  • How Jonathan Began Hosting Live Events
  • Examples of Revenue Streams for Bloggers
  • Who Jonathan Thanks for His Success

Sponsor: Rise25

This episode is sponsored today by Rise25 Inner Circle… Rise25 is an exclusive, application-only accountability and group coaching program for professional services entrepreneurs running 6, 7 and 8 figure businesses who want to scale up, and shift from “one to one” client work to “one to many.”

Rise25 Inner Circle was founded by my business partner, Dr. Jeremy Weisz and myself… every few months, at 4-star luxury properties, we bring together like-minded entrepreneurs who come from client-serving backgrounds and they want to make the shift from chasing clients to having large groups of clients and buyers chasing them.

What makes these events different from any other events you’ve seen for entrepreneurs is we bring in our “Sherpas” – 8 and 9 figure entrepreneurs who are there the full time, in the retreat room providing feedback. Think of the Sharks from “Shark Tank” except they only give out advice rather than investment.

Then we back up those live in-person retreats with ongoing, regular accountability and group coaching – so you are guaranteed to turn inspiration into action.

Check out Rise25 to learn more

Right Click here to download the MP3

Click here to subscribe via iTunes

Advertise on the Smart Business

The post Jonathan Milligan | From High School Teacher to Full-Time Blogger appeared first on Smart Business Revolution.

Rob Kosberg | How to Launch a Bestseller
2017-09-21 14:14:25 UTC
Rob Kosberg | How to Launch a Bestseller

Rob Kosberg Smart Business Revolution John Corcoran

rsz_smart_business_revolution_podcast_artwork_redRob Kosberg spent 20 years in the real estate game before “failing” his way into writing a bestseller that led to an incredibly successful business in financial services.  Rob then fell into helping other entrepreneurs write and publish their books and discovered his true passion.

In this episode, we also talk about:

  • How Rob Failed His Way into Writing a Bestseller
  • Common Barriers to Writing a Book
  • Is the term “Bestseller” Becoming Watered Down?
  • How to Become a Bestseller Without a Following
  • What Platforms Should Aspiring Authors Focus On?
  • How to Utilize Facebook Ads as an Author
  • What is a Backend Strategy and Why Should Authors Have One?
  • Which Should Come First, the Backend or the Book?
  • The First Step to Writing a Book
  • Who Rob Thanks for His Success

Sponsor: Rise25

This episode is sponsored today by Rise25 Inner Circle… Rise25 is an exclusive, application-only accountability and group coaching program for professional services entrepreneurs running 6, 7 and 8 figure businesses who want to scale up, and shift from “one to one” client work to “one to many.”

Rise25 Inner Circle was founded by my business partner, Dr. Jeremy Weisz and myself… every few months, at 4-star luxury properties, we bring together like-minded entrepreneurs who come from client-serving backgrounds and they want to make the shift from chasing clients to having large groups of clients and buyers chasing them.

What makes these events different from any other events you’ve seen for entrepreneurs is we bring in our “Sherpas” – 8 and 9 figure entrepreneurs who are there the full time, in the retreat room providing feedback. Think of the Sharks from “Shark Tank” except they only give out advice rather than investment.

Then we back up those live in-person retreats with ongoing, regular accountability and group coaching – so you are guaranteed to turn inspiration into action.

Check out Rise25 to learn more

Right Click here to download the MP3

Click here to subscribe via iTunes

Advertise on the Smart Business

The post Rob Kosberg | How to Launch a Bestseller appeared first on Smart Business Revolution.

Jon Ferrara | How to Manage Your Relationships with a CRM Software Pioneer
2017-09-21 14:14:25 UTC
Jon Ferrara | How to Manage Your Relationships with a CRM Software Pioneer

Jon Ferrara Smart Business Revolution John Corcoran

rsz_smart_business_revolution_podcast_artwork_redJon Ferrara built his first relationship management software company before personal computers were a common household item. After seeing the rise of social media, Jon knew he had to get back in the relationship management game and built another software company. Today, we’ll be talking about that company and much more.

In this episode, we also talk about:

  • Why Jon Started Thinking About CRM Software Back in the 80’s
  • How Jon Built His First Relationship Management Software Company
  • Jon’s Early Mentors
  • Why We’re All in Sales, even if We Don’t Realize it
  • How to Adopt Better Relationship Building Habits
  • How Social Media Convinced Jon to Create Nimble
  • The Nimble Plug-in That Lets You Take Your Golden Rolodex with You
  • The Biggest Call to Failure in Business Relationship
  • The Challenges Jon Experienced Building Nimble That Didn’t Exist While Building His First Company
  • What is Marketing Automation?
  • Jon’s Experience Having Mark Cuban as an Investor in Nimble
  • Who Jon Thanks for His Success
  • The Five E’s of Social Business

Sponsor: Rise25

This episode is sponsored today by Rise25 Inner Circle… Rise25 is an exclusive, application-only accountability and group coaching program for professional services entrepreneurs running 6, 7 and 8 figure businesses who want to scale up, and shift from “one to one” client work to “one to many.”

Rise25 Inner Circle was founded by my business partner, Dr. Jeremy Weisz and myself… every few months, at 4-star luxury properties, we bring together like-minded entrepreneurs who come from client-serving backgrounds and they want to make the shift from chasing clients to having large groups of clients and buyers chasing them.

What makes these events different from any other events you’ve seen for entrepreneurs is we bring in our “Sherpas” – 8 and 9 figure entrepreneurs who are there the full time, in the retreat room providing feedback. Think of the Sharks from “Shark Tank” except they only give out advice rather than investment.

Then we back up those live in-person retreats with ongoing, regular accountability and group coaching – so you are guaranteed to turn inspiration into action.

Check out Rise25 to learn more

Right Click here to download the MP3

Click here to subscribe via iTunes

Advertise on the Smart Business

The post Jon Ferrara | How to Manage Your Relationships with a CRM Software Pioneer appeared first on Smart Business Revolution.

Ray Edwards | From Copywriter for Hire to New Media Empire
2017-09-21 14:14:25 UTC
Ray Edwards | From Copywriter for Hire to New Media Empire

Ray Edwards Smart Business Revolution John Corcoran

rsz_smart_business_revolution_podcast_artwork_redRay Edwards fell in love with copywriting at a very young age thanks to “newspapers” like The National Enquirer used his passion for copywriting to help keep his job in Radio when all the other disc jockeys were being let go. Eventually, he started hiring himself out as a copywriter and now he’s built in his business in a way that he only works with approximately one client each year. Today, we’re talking all about his incredible entrepreneurial journey that’s led to him creating.

Today, we’re talking all about the incredible entrepreneurial journey that’s led to him creating marketing campaigns that have generated over $100 million for his clients.

In this episode, we also talk about:

  • How Ray Fell in Love with Copywriting at a Young Age
  • The Importance of Using Copywriting for Good
  • The Event That Led Ray to Work with Jack Canfield, Amy Porterfield, Tony Robbins, and More
  • How Ray Learned He was Underpricing His Services
  • The Secret Sauce to Writing Copy that Persuades
  • Why Ray Shifted His Business from One-on-One to One-to-Many
  • How Ray Transitioned from Copywriter for Hire to a Diversified Business Model
  • Who Ray Thanks for His Success

Sponsor: Rise25

This episode is sponsored today by Rise25 Inner Circle… Rise25 is an exclusive, application-only accountability and group coaching program for professional services entrepreneurs running 6, 7 and 8 figure businesses who want to scale up, and shift from “one to one” client work to “one to many.”

Rise25 Inner Circle was founded by my business partner, Dr. Jeremy Weisz and myself… every few months, at 4-star luxury properties, we bring together like-minded entrepreneurs who come from client-serving backgrounds and they want to make the shift from chasing clients to having large groups of clients and buyers chasing them.

What makes these events different from any other events you’ve seen for entrepreneurs is we bring in our “Sherpas” – 8 and 9 figure entrepreneurs who are there the full time, in the retreat room providing feedback. Think of the Sharks from “Shark Tank” except they only give out advice rather than investment.

Then we back up those live in-person retreats with ongoing, regular accountability and group coaching – so you are guaranteed to turn inspiration into action.

Check out Rise25 to learn more

Right Click here to download the MP3

Click here to subscribe via iTunes

Advertise on the Smart Business

The post Ray Edwards | From Copywriter for Hire to New Media Empire appeared first on Smart Business Revolution.

Selena Soo | How to Build Relationships with Online Influencers
2017-09-21 14:14:25 UTC
Selena Soo | How to Build Relationships with Online Influencers

Selena Soo Smart Business Revolution John Corcoran

rsz_smart_business_revolution_podcast_artwork_redSelena Soo is a business and publicity strategist who helps experts, authors, and coaches make it big, both online and in the mainstream media. As a result of Selena’s generous character, and her experience with her business, Selena has developed some incredible relationship building skills. In this episode, we’re going to talk about those skills and much more!

In this episode, we also talk about:

  • Has Selena Always Been Gifted at Building Relationships?
  • Selena’s Non-Profit Phase
  • How Selena Connected with Remit Sethi and Derek Halpern
  • How to Nurture Relationships After the Initial Meeting
  • Is Relationship Building Worth the Time Investment?
  • How Selena Draws the Line between Helping a Friend and Making Them a Client
  • The Importance of Doing Your Due Diligence Before Making an Introduction
  • What if You Reach Out to Someone and Don’t Get a Response?
  • Why Selena Hosts Networking Dinner Parties
  • The Tools Selena Uses to Keep Track of Her Relationship Building
  • Who Selena Thanks for Her Success

Sponsor: Rise25

This episode is sponsored today by Rise25 Inner Circle… Rise25 is an exclusive, application-only accountability and group coaching program for professional services entrepreneurs running 6, 7 and 8 figure businesses who want to scale up, and shift from “one to one” client work to “one to many.”

Rise25 Inner Circle was founded by my business partner, Dr. Jeremy Weisz and myself… every few months, at 4-star luxury properties, we bring together like-minded entrepreneurs who come from client-serving backgrounds and they want to make the shift from chasing clients to having large groups of clients and buyers chasing them.

What makes these events different from any other events you’ve seen for entrepreneurs is we bring in our “Sherpas” – 8 and 9 figure entrepreneurs who are there the full time, in the retreat room providing feedback. Think of the Sharks from “Shark Tank” except they only give out advice rather than investment.

Then we back up those live in-person retreats with ongoing, regular accountability and group coaching – so you are guaranteed to turn inspiration into action.

Check out Rise25 to learn more

Right Click here to download the MP3

Click here to subscribe via iTunes

Advertise on the Smart Business

The post Selena Soo | How to Build Relationships with Online Influencers appeared first on Smart Business Revolution.

Naveen Dittakavi | How to Build Recurring Revenue
2017-09-21 14:14:25 UTC
Naveen Dittakavi | How to Build Recurring Revenue

Naveen Dittakavi Smart Business Revolution John Corcoran

rsz_smart_business_revolution_podcast_artwork_redNaveen Dittakavi is a software engineer who, after gaining incredible access to Ramit Sethi, grew his business to the point where he could barely keep up. It was at this point that he realized, like most entrepreneurs, he was tired of trading his time for money.

Naveen began to change the way he thought about his relationship with his clients and started to focus more on recurring revenue instead of one-off projects. Now, he teaches other software developers how to do the same.

In this episode, we also talk about:

  • How Naveen First Learned to Approach Potential Clients
  • How Naveen Got “Holy Grail Access” to Ramit Sethi
  • The Realization That Increased Naveen’s Business by 5x in One Year
  • Why You Need to Be Fully Prepared to Achieve Your Goals
  • Why Naveen Conducted One-On-One Coaching Before Creating an Online Course
  • How Naveen Was Able to Successfully Switch to a Recurring Revenue Model
  • Who Naveen Thanks for His Success

Sponsor: Rise25

This episode is sponsored today by Rise25 Inner Circle… Rise25 is an exclusive, application-only accountability and group coaching program for professional services entrepreneurs running 6, 7 and 8 figure businesses who want to scale up, and shift from “one to one” client work to “one to many.”

Rise25 Inner Circle was founded by my business partner, Dr. Jeremy Weisz and myself… every few months, at 4-star luxury properties, we bring together like-minded entrepreneurs who come from client-serving backgrounds and they want to make the shift from chasing clients to having large groups of clients and buyers chasing them.

What makes these events different from any other events you’ve seen for entrepreneurs is we bring in our “Sherpas” – 8 and 9 figure entrepreneurs who are there the full time, in the retreat room providing feedback. Think of the Sharks from “Shark Tank” except they only give out advice rather than investment.

Then we back up those live in-person retreats with ongoing, regular accountability and group coaching – so you are guaranteed to turn inspiration into action.

Check out Rise25 to learn more

Right Click here to download the MP3

Click here to subscribe via iTunes

Advertise on the Smart Business

The post Naveen Dittakavi | How to Build Recurring Revenue appeared first on Smart Business Revolution.

Tim Grahl | How to Launch a Bestselling Book in a Digital World
2017-09-21 14:14:25 UTC
Tim Grahl | How to Launch a Bestselling Book in a Digital World

Tim Grahl Smart Business Revolution John Corcoran

rsz_smart_business_revolution_podcast_artwork_redTim Grahl has dedicated the past seven years to helping over 100 authors get their books into in the hands of more readers and, at one point, he had five separate clients on the New York Times Bestseller list at the same time. He’s now launched his own book, Your First 1,000 Copies, and we’re talking about how Tim has built an amazing client base and helps them launch Bestsellers.

In this episode, we also talk about:

  • How Tim Got into the Book Marketing Industry
  • How Tim Landed His Dream Clients
  • Why Authors Need an Email List
  • Why Helping People is the Best Way to Help Yourself
  • Do Authors Have to Be on Social Media?
  • How to Connect with the Right Influencers for Your Book Launch
  • Why Tim Created His Online Course
  • Tim and John’s Twitter Tips for Connecting with Speakers at Conferences
  • Who Tim Thanks for His Success

Sponsor: Rise25

This episode is sponsored today by Rise25 Inner Circle… Rise25 is an exclusive, application-only accountability and group coaching program for professional services entrepreneurs running 6, 7 and 8 figure businesses who want to scale up, and shift from “one to one” client work to “one to many.”

Rise25 Inner Circle was founded by my business partner, Dr. Jeremy Weisz and myself… every few months, at 4-star luxury properties, we bring together like-minded entrepreneurs who come from client-serving backgrounds and they want to make the shift from chasing clients to having large groups of clients and buyers chasing them.

What makes these events different from any other events you’ve seen for entrepreneurs is we bring in our “Sherpas” – 8 and 9 figure entrepreneurs who are there the full time, in the retreat room providing feedback. Think of the Sharks from “Shark Tank” except they only give out advice rather than investment.

Then we back up those live in-person retreats with ongoing, regular accountability and group coaching – so you are guaranteed to turn inspiration into action.

Check out Rise25 to learn more

Right Click here to download the MP3

Click here to subscribe via iTunes

Advertise on the Smart Business

The post Tim Grahl | How to Launch a Bestselling Book in a Digital World appeared first on Smart Business Revolution.

Hal Elrod | How to Create Your Miracle Morning
2017-09-21 14:14:25 UTC
Hal Elrod | How to Create Your Miracle Morning

Hal Elrod Smart Business Revolution John Corcoran

rsz_smart_business_revolution_podcast_artwork_redHal Elrod set a sales record within ten days of selling Cutco knives. A year later, after speaking at a Cutco event, he found himself in a head-on collision that left him in a coma, with multiple broken bones, permanent brain damage, and doctors telling him he would never walk again.

A few years after miraculously regaining his ability to walk, and experiencing tremendous business success, he found himself losing his family’s home and with over $52,000 in credit card debt. As a result, he developed the practices that dramatically changed his life and led to him writing The Miracle Morning; which has gone on to inspire millions and spawned an engaged Facebook community.

In this episode, we also talk about:

  • The Traumatic Car Accident That Change Hal’s Life
  • What Devastating Events Led Hal to Write Miracle Morning?
  • The Five-Step Snooze-Proof Wake-Up Strategy
  • The Six-Minute Miracle Morning
  • Six Practices to Save You from A Life of Unfulfilled Potential
  • Who Does Hal Thank for His Success

Sponsor: Rise25

This episode is sponsored today by Rise25 Inner Circle… Rise25 is an exclusive, application-only accountability and group coaching program for professional services entrepreneurs running 6, 7 and 8 figure businesses who want to scale up, and shift from “one to one” client work to “one to many.”

Rise25 Inner Circle was founded by my business partner, Dr. Jeremy Weisz and myself… every few months, at 4-star luxury properties, we bring together like-minded entrepreneurs who come from client-serving backgrounds and they want to make the shift from chasing clients to having large groups of clients and buyers chasing them.

What makes these events different from any other events you’ve seen for entrepreneurs is we bring in our “Sherpas” – 8 and 9 figure entrepreneurs who are there the full time, in the retreat room providing feedback. Think of the Sharks from “Shark Tank” except they only give out advice rather than investment.

Then we back up those live in-person retreats with ongoing, regular accountability and group coaching – so you are guaranteed to turn inspiration into action.

Check out Rise25 to learn more

Right Click here to download the MP3

Click here to subscribe via iTunes

Advertise on the Smart Business

The post Hal Elrod | How to Create Your Miracle Morning appeared first on Smart Business Revolution.

Mike Michalowicz | How to Surge Your Business to Growth
2017-09-21 14:14:25 UTC
Mike Michalowicz | How to Surge Your Business to Growth

Mike Michalowicz Smart Business Revolution John Corcoran

rsz_smart_business_revolution_podcast_artwork_redMike Michalowicz founded and sold two multi-million dollar companies, became an angel investor, and then lost it all. Now, he’s running his third million dollar company, is the author of Surge, and is on the show today to talk about how to “manufacture luck” by getting ahead of imminent changes in your market.

In this episode, we also talk about:

  • How Mike Became Interested in Learning How to Manufacture Luck
  • How to Foresee Where Your Market is Going
  • Shifting a Change in Market from Destroying Your Business to Helping It
  • Why it’s Critical to Pay Attention to Changes in Your Market
  • Why a Simple Product is Sometimes Best
  • The Best Places to do Market Research
  • Who Mike Thanks for His Success

Sponsor: Rise25

This episode is sponsored today by Rise25 Inner Circle… Rise25 is an exclusive, application-only accountability and group coaching program for professional services entrepreneurs running 6, 7 and 8 figure businesses who want to scale up, and shift from “one to one” client work to “one to many.”

Rise25 Inner Circle was founded by my business partner, Dr. Jeremy Weisz and myself… every few months, at 4-star luxury properties, we bring together like-minded entrepreneurs who come from client-serving backgrounds and they want to make the shift from chasing clients to having large groups of clients and buyers chasing them.

What makes these events different from any other events you’ve seen for entrepreneurs is we bring in our “Sherpas” – 8 and 9 figure entrepreneurs who are there the full time, in the retreat room providing feedback. Think of the Sharks from “Shark Tank” except they only give out advice rather than investment.

Then we back up those live in-person retreats with ongoing, regular accountability and group coaching – so you are guaranteed to turn inspiration into action.

Check out Rise25 to learn more

Right Click here to download the MP3

Click here to subscribe via iTunes

Advertise on the Smart Business

The post Mike Michalowicz | How to Surge Your Business to Growth appeared first on Smart Business Revolution.

Teresa De Groisbois | How to Create Mass Influence & Connect with Influential Players
2017-09-21 14:14:25 UTC
Teresa De Groisbois | How to Create Mass Influence & Connect with Influential Players

Teresa de Groisbois Smart Business Revolution John Corcoran

rsz_smart_business_revolution_podcast_artwork_redTeresa de Groisbois is an expert in how to connect with influential players in any industry. In fact, she wrote the book on it. Mass Influence became a bestseller before it had even been released! She’s mastered the art of playing the “influencer game” and is on the show today to talk about this very topic.

In this episode, we also talk about:

Sponsor: Rise25

This episode is sponsored today by Rise25 Inner Circle… Rise25 is an exclusive, application-only accountability and group coaching program for professional services entrepreneurs running 6, 7 and 8 figure businesses who want to scale up, and shift from “one to one” client work to “one to many.”

Rise25 Inner Circle was founded by my business partner, Dr. Jeremy Weisz and myself… every few months, at 4-star luxury properties, we bring together like-minded entrepreneurs who come from client-serving backgrounds and they want to make the shift from chasing clients to having large groups of clients and buyers chasing them.

What makes these events different from any other events you’ve seen for entrepreneurs is we bring in our “Sherpas” – 8 and 9 figure entrepreneurs who are there the full time, in the retreat room providing feedback. Think of the Sharks from “Shark Tank” except they only give out advice rather than investment.

Then we back up those live in-person retreats with ongoing, regular accountability and group coaching – so you are guaranteed to turn inspiration into action.

Check out Rise25 to learn more

Right Click here to download the MP3

Click here to subscribe via iTunes

Advertise on the Smart Business

The post Teresa De Groisbois | How to Create Mass Influence & Connect with Influential Players appeared first on Smart Business Revolution.

Melanie Benson | How to Create a Greater Impact
2017-09-21 14:14:25 UTC
Melanie Benson | How to Create a Greater Impact

rsz_smart_business_revolution_podcast_artwork_redMelanie Benson decided to leave corporate America behind to start her own business. Two weeks later, the tragic events of 9/11 happened and the economy crashed. That experience taught Melanie how to adapt in a way that all successful entrepreneurs must know how to do.

Today, Melanie specializes in aligning visionary, game-changing entrepreneurs who are emerging as leaders with the most powerful mindset, actions, and strategies that propel them to a level of success they never knew they could achieve.

In this episode, we also talk about:

  • What Caused Melanie to Leave Corporate America Behind?
  • The Mental Hurdles Melanie Faced in the Beginning
  • When Did Melanie Realize She Wanted to Focus on the Feeling of Overwhelm?
  • How Melanie Led a Networking Group Before She Was Even Making Money in Her Business
  • The Importance of Having a Strong Mindset
  • Melanie’s Process for Trying Something New in Her Business
  • Why You Might Need to Educate Your Audience on What Their Problem Is
  • The Importance of Balancing Logic and Intuition
  • Who Does Melanie Thank for Her Success?

Resources Mentioned:

Sponsor: Rise25

This episode is sponsored today by Rise25 Inner Circle… Rise25 is an exclusive, application-only accountability and group coaching program for professional services entrepreneurs running 6, 7 and 8 figure businesses who want to scale up, and shift from “one to one” client work to “one to many.”

Rise25 Inner Circle was founded by my business partner, Dr. Jeremy Weisz and myself… every few months, at 4-star luxury properties, we bring together like-minded entrepreneurs who come from client-serving backgrounds and they want to make the shift from chasing clients to having large groups of clients and buyers chasing them.

What makes these events different from any other events you’ve seen for entrepreneurs is we bring in our “Sherpas” – 8 and 9 figure entrepreneurs who are there the full time, in the retreat room providing feedback. Think of the Sharks from “Shark Tank” except they only give out advice rather than investment.

Then we back up those live in-person retreats with ongoing, regular accountability and group coaching – so you are guaranteed to turn inspiration into action.

Check out Rise25 to learn more

Right Click here to download the MP3

Click here to subscribe via iTunes

Advertise on the Smart Business

The post Melanie Benson | How to Create a Greater Impact appeared first on Smart Business Revolution.

Jeff Bullas | How to Build Credibility and Trust in a Digital World
2017-09-21 14:14:25 UTC
Jeff Bullas | How to Build Credibility and Trust in a Digital World

rsz_smart_business_revolution_podcast_artwork_redJeff Bullas was going through a rough time of unemployment and divorce when he decided to start his blog about social media back in 2009.

Today, he’s asked to speak at events all over the world, has written multiple books, and works with personal brands and business to optimize their online personal and company brands with emerging technologies, content, social media technologies and digital marketing.

In this episode, we also talk about:

  • Why Jeff Decided to Start a Blog in 2009
  • How Jeff’s Blog Caused Him to Get Slowly Fired from His Corporate Job
  • What About Social Media Caused Jeff to Create a Blog About It?
  • How the Original Version of Social Media is Slowly Disappearing
  • Should You Focus All Your Efforts on One Platform?
  • The Importance of Converting Social Media Traffic Into “Owned” Traffic
  • Jeff’s Tactics for Growing His Email List by 80,000 in 5 Months
  • The Importance of Validation for Staying Motivated
  • What Excites Jeff About the Future of Social Media?
  •  Who Jeff Thanks for His Success

Resources Mentioned:

Sponsor: Rise25

This episode is sponsored today by Rise25 Inner Circle… Rise25 is an exclusive, application-only accountability and group coaching program for professional services entrepreneurs running 6, 7 and 8 figure businesses who want to scale up, and shift from “one to one” client work to “one to many.”

Rise25 Inner Circle was founded by my business partner, Dr. Jeremy Weisz and myself… every few months, at 4-star luxury properties, we bring together like-minded entrepreneurs who come from client-serving backgrounds and they want to make the shift from chasing clients to having large groups of clients and buyers chasing them.

What makes these events different from any other events you’ve seen for entrepreneurs is we bring in our “Sherpas” – 8 and 9 figure entrepreneurs who are there the full time, in the retreat room providing feedback. Think of the Sharks from “Shark Tank” except they only give out advice rather than investment.

Then we back up those live in-person retreats with ongoing, regular accountability and group coaching – so you are guaranteed to turn inspiration into action.

Check out Rise25 to learn more

Right Click here to download the MP3

Click here to subscribe via iTunes

Advertise on the Smart Business

The post Jeff Bullas | How to Build Credibility and Trust in a Digital World appeared first on Smart Business Revolution.

Garrett Gunderson | Personal Finance for Entrepreneurs
2017-09-21 14:14:25 UTC
Garrett Gunderson | Personal Finance for Entrepreneurs

rsz_smart_business_revolution_podcast_artwork_redGarrett Gunderson started his first business at the age of 15 and was named Utah’s Young Entrepreneur of the Year.  When Garrett graduated college, he was offered positions at some of the countries top financial companies but, to the dismay of his parents at the time, he chose to remain an entrepreneur.

Today, Garrett helps business owners save money by showing them how to improve areas of their business they’ve been neglecting.

In this episode, we also talk about:

  • What Inspired Garrett to Start a Company at Age 15
  • The Challenge of Choosing Entrepreneurship Over a “Safe” Career
  • How Garrett Became “The Doogie Howser of Finance
  • The Tragic Plane Crash that Claimed the Lives of Two Business Partners
  • How the Tragedy Caused Garrett to Finally Finish His Book
  • The Effects of the 2008 Housing Market Crash on Garrett’s 100+ Properties
  • How Garrett Saves Business Owners Money with Wealth Factory
  • Why Garrett is Willing to Spend $40,000/Year in Education
  • Focusing on Relationship Capital
  • Who Garrett Thanks for His Success

Resources Mentioned:

Sponsor: Rise25

This episode is sponsored today by Rise25 Inner Circle… Rise25 is an exclusive, application-only accountability and group coaching program for professional services entrepreneurs running 6, 7 and 8 figure businesses who want to scale up, and shift from “one to one” client work to “one to many.”

Rise25 Inner Circle was founded by my business partner, Dr. Jeremy Weisz and myself… every few months, at 4-star luxury properties, we bring together like-minded entrepreneurs who come from client-serving backgrounds and they want to make the shift from chasing clients to having large groups of clients and buyers chasing them.

What makes these events different from any other events you’ve seen for entrepreneurs is we bring in our “Sherpas” – 8 and 9 figure entrepreneurs who are there the full time, in the retreat room providing feedback. Think of the Sharks from “Shark Tank” except they only give out advice rather than investment.

Then we back up those live in-person retreats with ongoing, regular accountability and group coaching – so you are guaranteed to turn inspiration into action.

Check out Rise25 to learn more

Right Click here to download the MP3

Click here to subscribe via iTunes

Advertise on the Smart Business

The post Garrett Gunderson | Personal Finance for Entrepreneurs appeared first on Smart Business Revolution.

Dan Kuschell | Growth to Freedom
2017-09-21 14:14:25 UTC
Dan Kuschell | Growth to Freedom

rsz_smart_business_revolution_podcast_artwork_redDan Kuschell started his first business at the age of 22 and hasn’t stopped since. However, a health scare in 2007 caused Dan to reevaluate his priorities and he’s now focused on helping other entrepreneurs grow their businesses.

Dan’s desire is to pass on the knowledge and skills other have taught him, and that’s he picked up on his own, throughout his 20 years as an entrepreneur.

In this episode, we also talk about:

  • The Health Scare That Changed Dan’s Life
  • How Dan Started His First Business at 22
  • Why Dan Started a Business While $100,000 in Debt
  • The Magic in Commitment
  • The Three Questions That Tripled Dan’s Business
  • How Dan Became Partners with Joe Polish of Genius Network
  • The Importance of Surrounding Yourself with Successful People
  • What Dan Wants You to Take Away from His Story
  • Who Dan Thanks for His Success

Resources Mentioned:

Sponsor: Rise25

This episode is sponsored today by Rise25 Inner Circle… Rise25 is an exclusive, application-only accountability and group coaching program for professional services entrepreneurs running 6, 7 and 8 figure businesses who want to scale up, and shift from “one to one” client work to “one to many.”

Rise25 Inner Circle was founded by my business partner, Dr. Jeremy Weisz and myself… every few months, at 4-star luxury properties, we bring together like-minded entrepreneurs who come from client-serving backgrounds and they want to make the shift from chasing clients to having large groups of clients and buyers chasing them.

What makes these events different from any other events you’ve seen for entrepreneurs is we bring in our “Sherpas” – 8 and 9 figure entrepreneurs who are there the full time, in the retreat room providing feedback. Think of the Sharks from “Shark Tank” except they only give out advice rather than investment.

Then we back up those live in-person retreats with ongoing, regular accountability and group coaching – so you are guaranteed to turn inspiration into action.

Check out Rise25 to learn more

Right Click here to download the MP3

Click here to subscribe via iTunes

Advertise on the Smart Business

The post Dan Kuschell | Growth to Freedom appeared first on